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  #31  
Old 08-20-2005, 11:59 AM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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i would like to speak on behalf of my friend carnation: both of us have been involved extensively with recruitments at a multitude of campuses, and see that the one area that recruitment counselors are lacking good training in is the subject this thread is based on. not enough time is spent on how to deal with the situation where a pnm is released from recruitment, or just an unhappy pnm in general. we have spoken many times about just this, and carnation decided that with formal recruitment in full swing on so many campuses, now would be a good time to gather ideas, to perhaps share with panhellenics.
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  #32  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:18 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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What does a Rho Chi usually say to PNM who has been released? I mean, what do they actually TELL you? Is it just "You got cross cut. Have a nice day?"
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  #33  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:20 PM
tunatartare tunatartare is offline
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At my school what we started doing is that the Rho Chi's call the PNM's who didn't get bids and explain to them the situation and talk with them so that way the girls know not to come to bid distribution where all of their friends are happy and jumping up and down because they got into their first choice.
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  #34  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:37 PM
sigpsigirl sigpsigirl is offline
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I didn't get a bid after formal recruitment, so my call went something like this:

PX: Hi, sigpsigirl. There was a problem with matching and we were unable to find a place for you.
Me: Oh.
PX: If you're still interested in Greek Life, though, COB starts immediately, or you could wait until fall informal as well. And there's nothing stopping you from hanging out with sorority girls still!
Me: Okay.

It was a bit of a shock... but I liked the way my PX worded it so that it didn't sound like nobody liked me. I still felt that way, but I had no way to back it up. And seriously, if your campus has COB, PX's should push it because I did go through and was able to meet far more girls in the informal atmosphere than I could at formal rush, and found my home with Sigma Psi.
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  #35  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:44 PM
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honeychile honeychile is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FSUZeta
i would like to speak on behalf of my friend carnation: both of us have been involved extensively with recruitments at a multitude of campuses, and see that the one area that recruitment counselors are lacking good training in is the subject this thread is based on. not enough time is spent on how to deal with the situation where a pnm is released from recruitment, or just an unhappy pnm in general. we have spoken many times about just this, and carnation decided that with formal recruitment in full swing on so many campuses, now would be a good time to gather ideas, to perhaps share with panhellenics.
I agree. We choose Rho Chi's without much thought as to how they would react to someone not yet part of the Greek System. I don't know of any schools which hold seminars for Rho Chis prior to Recruitment (although I'm sure that there are some), and maybe that's something that each campus AND the NPC needs to look at. Even if it's just holding the PNM if she's crying, or taking her to a nearby private room to let her talk - that would be better than Jocelyn's, "You just got cross-cut. Have a nice day," scenario.

Absolutely, there needs to be someone with SOME counseling skills on hand on Bid Day - if not all through Recruitment! And I don't mean the Greek Advisor, someone who can show unbiased empathy without putting the system down.

The one thing I've seen cause the most pain is when a legacy rushes, and every sorority "assumes" she's going to her legacy chapter. Well, what if she doesn't like them, or doesn't fit in there? Does that have to exclude her from all the other GLOs, too? We always considered legacies to other chapters challenges, and rushed them all the harder - but I know a lot of other chapter don't. It's one of the main reasons I have trepidation about mandatory cuts.
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  #36  
Old 08-20-2005, 01:10 PM
ISUKappa ISUKappa is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by honeychile
I don't know of any schools which hold seminars for Rho Chis prior to Recruitment (although I'm sure that there are some), and maybe that's something that each campus AND the NPC needs to look at.

Absolutely, there needs to be someone with SOME counseling skills on hand on Bid Day - if not all through Recruitment! And I don't mean the Greek Advisor, someone who can show unbiased empathy without putting the system down.
At Iowa State, Rho Gammas are selected early in the spring semester and spend one night a week for ~8 weeks "training" with the Rho Gamma coordinator (who has to have been a Rho Gamma herself) for recruitment. They also have Rho Gamma training before recruitment at Iowa, but I don't know how long it lasts.

They go through the basics in the first few weeks and then spend the last few weeks of training reinacting various situations that could happen as Rho Gammas. I believe, if they can, they like to have a guest speaker from Student Counseling or Student Life talk to them about appropriate things to say/how to handle when girls are dropped completely, etc...

Someone is always on hand at the "red" phone in the Recruitment Office--whether it be the Panhellenic President, Greek Advisor, Grad Student Advisor, or another member of Panhellenic Exec.
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  #37  
Old 08-20-2005, 02:47 PM
adpiucf adpiucf is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FSUZeta
both of us have been involved extensively with recruitments at a multitude of campuses, and see that the one area that recruitment counselors are lacking good training in is the subject this thread is based on. not enough time is spent on how to deal with the situation where a pnm is released from recruitment, or just an unhappy pnm in general.
I agree! I was a recruitment counselor way back and although we had weekly meetings to learn all the damn songs and symbols, we spent more time learning about First Aid and Heat Stroke (Central Florida recruitment is in late August) than Recruitment rules and how to console a PNM!

I still feel responsible for one PNM from years back-- she arrived late on Round 1. Instead of sending her into the first house on her schedule, our recruitment counselors thought we had to keep her outside so as not to interrupt the party. Well, no show-no excuse--- she got cut from that chapter. She ended up getting her top choice sorority on Bid Day... but what if she had gotten to go into that first house? Maybe that would have been "the right one."

We were totally inequipped to handle that situation. Now, if a PNM came out of the house with a cocktail napkin and a fistful of cookies, we could write up the chapter's infraction before you could even force the shortbread out of her hands!

And to this day I love my Tri-Delta friend who came late to that first party and got cut, but I wonder sometimes if our group of counselors had known what to do... maybe she would have been my ADPi sister!

And to the rest of my group that year -- the group preffed heavily at two houses-- and got cut heavily after that pref. I had to improvise on Bid Day, calling them with snap bid offers to other sororities that had expressed interest and trying to console them through the phone. That was a very rough experience.

To this day, I can still remember all the recruitment songs... and I remember how helpless I felt trying to console 5 wonderful women without their top choice bids.

I wholeheartly advocate "how to counsel and console" in the recruitment couselors' training!
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  #38  
Old 08-20-2005, 04:17 PM
exlurker exlurker is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
. . . Being the naive person I am/was, I didn't realize that you could be dropped from recruitment entirely (PX's, as great as they were, didn't lay that out for us). . . .I missed the Tuesday afternoon call of "hey you don't need to come and pick up your invites because you were dropped" . . . SO I showed up early to the meeting (thank god) and my poor PX's looked like they had seen a ghost, they obviously hadn't planned on me not getting the message. I left shortly after hearing the news, and of course like many PNM's, I wanted to know WHY . . .
Good point -- I must say, having read lots of web site descriptions of the NPC recruitment process and schedules at schools large and small -- Southern, Northern, Eastern, Western, Canadian; from 4-year commuter colleges to the most academically elite universities -- almost never is there even a suggestion that someone could find herself completely cut. Typically you'll see descriptions that end with something like "Bid Day -- this is when you find out who your new sisters are and join them for a special fun evening . . . "

Every now and then a site will mention that going through recruitment doesn't guarantee getting a bid, but that's about all.

I realize that Panhellenics don't want to cause more anxiety than already exists, but to those who aren't already in the know, just a mention of "mutual selection" may not be enough to prepare for some of the possibilities we read about on GC.

And as to the "why" that Phoenix Azul talked about -- because membership selection is a private process, it can be impossible to tell a PNM "why." That's not especially satisfactory, but I don't know what can be done about it. What can be difficult, though, is when the school's Panhellenic has publicized a fairly common thingy called the Potential New Member's Bill of Rights, which seems to be pretty popular. It purports to uphold "rights" to complete and truthful answers to questions, and so on. I get the impression, though, from lots of GC posts over a couple of years, that there are many recruitment mysteries (or important points that are casually glossed over) for both PNMs and active members -- not to mention alumnae and parents.
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  #39  
Old 08-20-2005, 04:43 PM
DGMarie DGMarie is offline
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Re: Re: What Not to Say to a Released PNM

Quote:
Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Are you flipping kidding me? Girls transfer schools because they got cut from a sorority?

Sorry. I'd have to laugh at her for that. Education anyone?

My sophmore year roommate transfered from Clemson to USC because she wanted to be a ZTA at Clemson and got cut and went KD instead. She thought the chapter of KD was better/larger/whatever at USC so she transferred schools. This was 20 years ago.
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  #40  
Old 08-20-2005, 11:58 PM
AXO_MOM_3 AXO_MOM_3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FSUZeta
i would like to speak on behalf of my friend carnation: both of us have been involved extensively with recruitments at a multitude of campuses, and see that the one area that recruitment counselors are lacking good training in is the subject this thread is based on. not enough time is spent on how to deal with the situation where a pnm is released from recruitment, or just an unhappy pnm in general. we have spoken many times about just this, and carnation decided that with formal recruitment in full swing on so many campuses, now would be a good time to gather ideas, to perhaps share with panhellenics.
I went through the counseling program at Wake, and while discussing counseling areas related to collegians, recruitment came up. My professor shared that during and after recruitment, many students did make use of the campus counseling center. Perhaps tapping into the counseling office, or area professional counselors (alums) before recruitment begins would be beneficial. Maybe someone would be willing to stay and talk to the girls. I would probably consider volunteering somewhere if asked to be on hand for that purpose.
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  #41  
Old 08-21-2005, 01:34 AM
UCFStefanie UCFStefanie is offline
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Here is an Idea but I really think it could work.

I think that Greek Affairs needs to contact the campus Counseling Center about having representatives avaliable each night just so girls can talk to someone. Granted this would work better at larger schools where the counseling centers have numerous employees. I wouldnt need to be the whole staff each night but just one representative each night who could talk to those extreme cases where nothing seems to work.

While I do think that we should definetly spend time training our recruiment guides in this topic we should also provide professional resources to these girls. (I guess that it is just something that comes from all of the years of training residents assistants to listen and console but to know when to refer to a professional)

I think this could really help the relationship with greek life and many different departments. Why not call on those who are certifited to help students. I bet they would be flattered that you thought of them.
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  #42  
Old 08-21-2005, 03:07 AM
AXO_MOM_3 AXO_MOM_3 is offline
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Another area you could look into is sensitivity training for recruitment counselors. Have a select few trained in dealing with releases, and make sure that they don't have px groups and other girls to take care of. That way they can actually spend some time with the girl processesing everything and continue to be available to her until she feels better about the situation or can get more professional help if she so chooses.
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  #43  
Old 08-21-2005, 02:15 PM
pinkyphimu pinkyphimu is offline
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-in addition to having staff from the counceling center available each night, the campus could probably tap into the psychology and social work depts. there were several psych profs at my school who did have private practices and would do very well talking to someone who just had a loss. at large schools, there are probably grad students who would be qualified to help, too.

-if this is a campus where historically there are many pnms who either drop out of recruitment because they were cut by favorite orgs or find themselves bidless due to cross-cutting etc., then perhaps it is up to the school to contract with local social workers and therapists to be on hand each night!

-in my ideal world at schools with competitive recruitment, a councelor would go with every rho whatever to deliever the news to a pnm who had been cut.

-and this news should never ever ever be passed over the telephone.

-and if cob opportunities do exist on your campus, but patty pnm is dropping out mid-week bc her favorites (and chapters who never cob) cut her, don't tell her she can always cob!!! the chapters were are mostly likely to cob are still on her invite list, but she doesn't want them or else she would have continued with recruitment. perhaps in situations such as this, it would be better to say, i know you want to drop bc xyz has cut you, but historically they do not cob. it might be better to continue with recruitment, get to know the other chapters and if by pref you don't find something you feel like you connect with, then don't sign a bid card.

-eta: maybe this is something that should be addressed to all pnms at the beginning of recruitment by a councelor. not to rain on everyone's parade, but have a speaker (non-rho-whatever) who gives a presentation that the week may be difficult for some of the pnms and explain how provided resources will work.
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  #44  
Old 08-21-2005, 02:31 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AXO_MOM_3
Another area you could look into is sensitivity training for recruitment counselors. Have a select few trained in dealing with releases, and make sure that they don't have px groups and other girls to take care of.
Good point. From what I see, it's not that the Rec. Counselors are insensitive (though I don't doubt that some probably just are), they are just busy. I mean, I know they'd like to console Joni PNM who just got released from all 8 chapters, BUT that's hard to do if she calls you and you're just about to go hand out invites to your other 10 PNM's in the group.
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Last edited by PenguinTrax; 08-21-2005 at 03:00 PM.
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  #45  
Old 08-21-2005, 02:53 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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I think a lot of it is that first, recruitment counselors are young and they don't know what to say, possibly thinking that they themselves never would've been in that situation. Yet I've seen new members queening it around campus in their new and prominent letters, never knowing that several of us in PH know that they were one space on the bid list away from not getting in.

Also, I think they get very spotty training on how to deal with rush problems. When I rushed, another PNM asked the RC what happened if a girl didn't get the maximum number of invites for that day. She sat there speechless and told it it wouldn't happen. Of course it did the next day and a couple of girls got no invites to the next parties.

Sometimes I think it hasn't gotten any better. Many girls who are RCs have told me that they weren't doing it to help PNMs, that they just wanted to get out of rushing. Most of the PNMs I know who got few or no invites heard nothing from their RCs and were just left to their own devices. This includes some who had paid for meals during rush and were too torn up to even go to meals with the successful PNMs so they just sat in their dorm rooms and ate snacks out of machines and cried for days. Several of them ended up becoming confirmed Greek haters.
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