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  #151  
Old 06-28-2000, 12:20 AM
7th_wonder_dst 7th_wonder_dst is offline
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I did a paper on this very topic and the resluts weren't what I expected. Anyway, I don't have a problem with black men who date outside their race when it's for the right reasons - because of genuine interest. My sister-in-law is white. I love her dearly, she's a great mother to my nephew and she doesn't live up to any of the stereotypes about white women. I do have a problem with black men who don't date black women because of our "attitudes" - those men are weak and insecure and no woman of any race should settle for such a man.

As for black women dating white men - I would have no problem with that. I'm not willing to lower my standards for anyone and if a white man meets those standards than that's fine with me. Unfortunately, SOME black men have double standards and have spoken against the idea. I guess it's a historical thing that is in our consciences - black men protecting their women from white men and black women bearing too much weight on our shoulders.
  #152  
Old 06-28-2000, 01:51 PM
white p
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chakalate, somehow you still misunderstand my message. I do not discount your struggles and success, and I understand that there are many people who struggle and are successful just as you are. My message is not about that.

My point is that our firm does currently employ qualified minority workers. Several of our most productive workers are black. But we are NOW being forced by the government to reach their quota on an almost unattainable timeline. Not enough qualified minorities apply for employment here. So this means we now have to hire unqualified workers & pass over qualified workers simply to meet a government quota. Why is it so hard to understand that this is wrong?

"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." You know this quote right? Do you believe in the meaning? This is exactly why what the gov't is forcing us to do is wrong. Our company is being forced to hire people based on the color of their skin and not based on the content of their character, in other words, not based on whether or not they are qualified to work here.

For this company it is not about white or black, it's about who is best qualified for the job (regardless of race), it's about who will be able to help the company increase shareholder value (which is also our LEGAL obligation). But the government currently forces us to make it a white or black thing.

Maybe I can use your situation as an example. You are a top performing law student at one of the top law schools in the country. You are obviously one of the most qualified candidates for a job in your field. You obviously would contribute more towards the success of any firm than another student who has very low credentials (regardless of race). Now when the time comes for you to apply for a job, what if some government agency puts out word that there are not enough Latino or Asian lawyers represented in the industry and each law firm of a certain size will be required to have certain percentages of workers or face heavy fines? What if the law firm you want to work for hires a much less qualified latino or asian (who was a mediocre student at the least prestigious law school) over you, simply because your color and theirs are different? What if that same firm hired several applicants who were much less qualified than you but passed you over simply because you are black & they need to up their percentages of latinos or asians. How would that make you feel?
  #153  
Old 06-28-2000, 08:56 PM
chAKAlate chAKAlate is offline
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White priv

Your argument to me still does not hold water. First of all despite the misconception MLK was for affirmative action and have you read his whole speech. I will put some other excerpts that express a different view----a message about what this country owes African-Americans.

And your scenario, if I was part of a privileged group of people, yes privileged and I knew there were certain programs that were targeted to those who don't get a fair shot in: education, opportunity and work force. Then I would like to think I would be big enough not to be bitter and since I know I am privileged and that my people run this country. I would not be too worried. I know there would be a 99.9% chance that I would behired. (But I understand it is hard to look from that perspective, when you haven't experienced the other side.)

We like to forget that companies have been forced to implement affirmative action programs because of the long history in this country of employers including government agencies of discriminating against people of color.

When discrimination is over then affirmative action programs should end.

I would also like to emphasize that I think there are other markers of success than numbers.

For instance event hough I graduated cum laude. I could have done much better in school but I had to work and raise a small child.

If I get an applicant who has high numbers but never had to work a day in his life, come from a privileged background, good family etc. and I have someone who was poor who had to work their way through school, who were already handicapped when they started school because the highschool they went to was underfunded and teachers were terrible, or were the first person in their family to graduate from college, or had children. Then I would think they were equal because though one shows intelligence in being able to pass a test, another shows determinaiton, perserverance, and confidence. All qualities I would want in an employee.

We really need to look on how we evaluate intelligence. Some people are just not good test takers and that comes from someone who is a good test taker.

Okay that is my $19.08.

  #154  
Old 06-29-2000, 08:16 AM
ManndingoNUPE ManndingoNUPE is offline
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Very well said my sister chAKAlate.
  #155  
Old 06-30-2000, 07:44 PM
PositivelyAKA PositivelyAKA is offline
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You go Soror!!!! exactly. how many minorities lack the educational tools to compete with say their priviledged peers (for lack of a better word) instead of looking at how well someone scored on their test, how about looking to see if that person had the same educational opportunities afforded them growing up. It is so easy to look at what someone is not capable of without examing why they lack particular skills. Some, I say Some White Americans love to do this (to make themselves feel superior), oh those blacks score low on this and that and look at this. No, look at where that person came from and what they've had to overcome. did they have acess to the same things as their white peers, often they do not. I doubt very many of those criticizing would have the fortitude to endure what Black America has. I am proud to be Black because we have overcome some serious oppression and still are. If two people start a race but one gets a serious head start then of course they are at an advantage. Being white in this country although not free of pain or hardship does afford a certain priviledge that blacks in this country have never enjoyed due to our skin and their guilt. I'm not mad at them for that. But if in anyway they use that priviledge (and many do subconciously or consciously) to abuse and keep me and my people down then yes i get angry. I think at this point we should try to look at the other person's perspective and then maybe we will begin to see why these types of discussions get folks so heated. I personally don't agree with quotas in hiring or education, but unfortunately (and it is a fact) qualified or not some people will not hire/admitt other races if they are not forced to. Why? I think that should be obvious by now. So to make sure RACIST employers/institutions do not continue to deny the very thing that will allow minorities to prosper we have to have some type of standard. As far as the dating thing i say do your thang and if your reasoning behind it is warped then may God help you see what is really going in your heart/mind. AND please black men etc. don't make excuses for your preferences in dating outside your race, that is so lame and tired, if you date outside your race its because you WANT to, nobody, one or two or three bad experiences is enough to make a secure individual stop dating in their race. I've had my share of bad experiences and even with all that, hands down without a doubt always prefer the brothers and without lowering my standards). When all is said and done black dating white etc. the white person will still be white in a country that gives them majority rule and the black will still be a minority now falling under the latin population. if it makes you happy and if it is not hurting anyone then have fun.

[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited June 30, 2000).]
  #156  
Old 07-01-2000, 02:52 AM
mwedzi mwedzi is offline
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Chakalate, Wynna, you're from Compton, too! Get outta here! Who would have thought so many of us from such a relatively small city would be here on this discussion board. I'm not there now, but from preschool to 6th grade, I lived there.

well, I really do not want to get emotionally involved in this discussion because I feel like I can see both sides and despite people's common accusation that this makes me "weak," it's more difficult this way because I can't find *anybody* who will agree with me.

I am a black woman. I was part of a "GLO" as you call it, though most of the members were neither white nor black, but Mexican American, then white with a scattering of us black folks and asian people as well. quite frankly, it was cool and I have no regrets. (Alpha Sigma Tau!)

In dating, I'm pretty shy, can't so I get out too much with any color man, but for some odd reason, I developed this early preference for Asian men. Don't even ask me to explain that one cuz it's a long story and even I don't fully understand. But though I have learned the history (and not just black history but, for example, the centuries-old oppression and invasion of Korea by the Japanese), I would still date a white man if I liked him enough. And I know some will find that reason enough to despise me or even worse, pull out their condescention (sp?) and pity me for my blindness. Still, I would do it. And for that matter I would date a black man or a latino or, of course, an asian one.

i'm young and playful. the more options, the better.
  #157  
Old 07-01-2000, 06:33 PM
Intriguing15DST
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I understand everyone who has said that they feel love is love, ect. That's cute. If it works for you that way in your world, more power to you. As for me, I don't want to to do a whole lot of explaining in my most intimate relationships. (I'm not trying to be crass) I mean, If I have to explain why dunking me in the pool is a no-no (sisters you know what I mean), and my family have to censor what they say around my prospective mate, how close are we really? It's not just race, I couldn't see myself dating outside of my religon either. Or a black man who spoke another language. It's a question of comfort. Someone who you don't have to explain why something is or is not funny. Which isn't to say that I haven't be attracted to and hit on by men of other races. I do. Just somewhere in the relationship it becomes clear that I'm spending to much time telling you who I am.
  #158  
Old 07-03-2000, 04:23 AM
chAKAlate chAKAlate is offline
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Wynna, Ndezwi, Deltabrat my fellow Comptonites please e-mail. I would love to correspond with you.

You can e-mail me at ChAKAlate2@excite.com
  #159  
Old 07-03-2000, 03:46 PM
Professor Professor is offline
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I HATE to see a black man with a white woman! E S P E C I A L L Y if the brother is educated and successful. It really turns my stomach. There are many educated, attractive and successful sisters out here. I just can't understand why some brothers can't find one or choose to date outside the race.

On the other hand, I am much more tolerant of sisters that date white men. Considering the shortage of educated brothers (or the number of of brothers in general) many sisters date outside their race for this reason.
"06"
  #160  
Old 07-03-2000, 04:05 PM
hello
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Quote:
Originally posted by Intriguing15DST:
I mean, If I have to explain why dunking me in the pool is a no-no (sisters you know what I mean), and my family have to censor what they say around my prospective mate, how close are we really
That's BS -- I am anything but black and I know exactly what you're talking about. Everyone has to learn about each other -- no matter how the same or how different you are.

  #161  
Old 07-03-2000, 06:03 PM
DELTABRAT DELTABRAT is offline
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hello...

I think the first few words of your responsevgives much indication as to why you responded in that fashion...because you are anything but black so you don' t understand. Getting to know people on GP is one thing BUT constantly explaining why I do or do not do/approve, etc., in a certain way is another. I do understand what my Soror was saying.

Intriguing15DST
Ooooo-ooop SOROR!!!!

chAKAlate,

I am going to e-mail you AS SOON as I get finished with this summer course that I am taking. Why do I subject myself to SOOO much...mental...drama? Of course it's a grad course so there's only like, 50 assignments due in 5 weeks
  #162  
Old 07-03-2000, 07:35 PM
chAKAlate chAKAlate is offline
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Professor a man after my own heart. Well said!!

Phirst Pham love.

Deltabrat will be awaiting your e-mail. I put a post up for you on the DST chat too.
  #163  
Old 07-04-2000, 01:50 AM
Asia2000 Asia2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DELTABRAT:
hello...
I think the first few words of your responsevgives much indication as to why you responded in that fashion...because you are anything but black so you don' t understand. Getting to know people on GP is one thing BUT constantly explaining why I do or do not do/approve, etc., in a certain way is another. I do understand what my Soror was saying.
I can relate to hello's post. I've had to grown up in an america where there is a strong white and strong black community. I fit into neither community. It has been hard all my life because I've had to explain to EVERYONE and usually don't have any people to fall back on who do understand where I am coming from.

I've never been blind enough to discredit the BS one must put up with growing up an african-american in this country (I've met the Klan face to face -- believe me, I know), but, no one can deny the fact that there is a strong african-amercian identity to align ones self with here. The african-american culture in America has become so beautiful. It is now a mix of everything -- traditional african influences, the urban culture influence, things that were forced upon slaves and adopted into mainstream culture, things that developed uniquely in America only, and so much more.

However, as an Asian-American, many of our youth strongly align themselves with either black or white america because there just isn't a strong asian-american culture present. As a result, things that are uniquely Japanese or Filipina or Chinese or Korean are just swallowed up and we grow up trying to believe we are white because of our pale skin or we grow up close to black america because of our minority status. I have suffered from this.

I have met so many asian-american women in college and they do things and say things and feel things just like me. It is the first time in my life I've EVER felt like I truly belong anywhere. It is the first time that things that my family does have become a normality rather than something I have to explain to EVERYONE I meet.

Regardless, I appreciate my experience because I wasn't sheltered and I was forced to deal with my unique culture and other people's reaction to it and I now know that I can get along with any race. If I met a black man or a white man or a spanish man or a korean man who I just vibed with, I wouldn't let our cultural differences stand in the way of that. I've always felt my life enriched by dating men outside of my race and outside of my ethnicity (not all Asians are alike - we are actually quite different from one another) -- both by learning about them and teaching them about me.

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