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  #1  
Old 10-17-2004, 08:04 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Texas universities & HS top 10%

60 Minutes just did a story on how if you are in the top 10% of your graduating class in Texas, you are automatically accepted to any of the public universities there (I'm assuming this is public universities). The thing they were saying is bogus is that the degree of difficulty of your school plays no part in it - and we know some high schools have more difficult curricula than others.

Texans or anyone else affected, thoughts on this?
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2004, 08:27 PM
jubilance1922 jubilance1922 is offline
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I'm not a Texan, but here's my take on the story (and Texans can correct me if I'm wrong):

The whole reason why this law was passed was to eliminate affirmative action in the UT system, like California did. Once this law was passed, fewer minority students were admitted into the UT system.

Now years later, the 60 minutes story highlights the problems: the UT system,especially UT-Austin, just doesn't have the space to accomadate all these students. And it also showed that the kids at extremely competitive schools are getting the shaft.

I personally think that they should abolish the system. I'm not for quotas or anything, but the fact remains that the public school system in this country isn't fair, and every student doesn't get the same education. They would do better looking at each student individually.
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  #3  
Old 10-17-2004, 08:53 PM
msn4med1975 msn4med1975 is offline
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Well, not that my opinion holds any more weight because I'm a Texan, but the minority enrollment fell on SOME campuses. In general the rule has allowed kids from inner city Dallas, San Antonio, Houston and Fort Worth (to name a few) schools to attend when they might otherwise have not done so. We've always had something LIKE this in place in Texas (not mandated) because when I graduated in 93 I could have pretty much gone anywhere based on GPA and SAT/ACT scores. I didn't want to go to school in state however because I wanted to get away from being the ONLY minority in class so I left and went to a private HBCU in Tennessee. Really smart (ie more competitive HS attendees) like myself were still being denied from SOME schools because they are just HARDER to get into period. There will always be SOMEONE not getting a spot no matter how brilliant they are. The issue now, as was the issue then, is a sense of entitlement to attend XYZ school just because they have a 3.8. Well consider the competitive nature of the school and the fact that most of the folks admitted will have at LEAST a 3.8 that doesn't mean Jonnie Smith deserves that spot anymore than LaKesha Thompson if in general they match up. The system in Texas will NEVER be completely fair, there are too many kids, too many factors they have to take in consideration and our population is exploding. And I did watch the 60 minutes special but I always find it amazing that they don't go talk to the top ten percent or other special admit category student that matches point for point the student they are admitting that didn't get in. It's always a massive disparity between the two. And as someone familiar with Fox Tech it's NOT the creme de la creme but it's a good school with very motivated and hardworking students.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2004, 12:21 AM
lyrica9 lyrica9 is offline
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it is a really awful system, because there are kids with 2.5s that got into UT simply because that was the top 10% at their school, but there are kids with 4.0s elsewhere that are getting shafted because thats not top ten at their school.

basically if you aren't in the top 10% you dont get into UT at austin, because they have to take those kids, and there are a lot that apply.

dont get me started on the bullshit educational reforms bush put into place as govenor, because they piss me off to no end.
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2004, 12:38 AM
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I'm going to find out more about this tomorrow...but I believe the person who got this law passed, was because of the low percentage of minorities in some of Texas's biggest universities. She wanted to increase that percentage and give the top 10% the opportunity to go to school whereever they wanted to. UT just happens to be the most popular campus.

I could be wrong. I also agree with the comment on Texas curriculum. I know for sure some schools further south do not compete with some of the bigger "richer" schools. I wrote more papers during my freshman english class than I did in all of high school. By papers, I mean more than a couple of typed pages. At the time, it was a shock! I'm used to it now.
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2004, 05:49 PM
msn4med1975 msn4med1975 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lyrica9
it is a really awful system, because there are kids with 2.5s that got into UT simply because that was the top 10% at their school, but there are kids with 4.0s elsewhere that are getting shafted because thats not top ten at their school.

basically if you aren't in the top 10% you dont get into UT at austin, because they have to take those kids, and there are a lot that apply.

dont get me started on the bullshit educational reforms bush put into place as govenor, because they piss me off to no end.
No student with a 2.5 is getting int UT or any other school. There's NO school in Texas, that I'm aware of so someone feel free to correct me, that a 2.5 would even come close to the top ten percent. Even the young lady they used as an example of the system "backfiring" had a 3.4. This wasn't said here but part of it is a class size issue. I had a 3.8 graduating but that was the top 15 percent of my class because the class graduated 500 people and our valedictorian had a 4.2 because of all of our AP classes. Maybe it's me, because staying in state wasn't that appealing, but it's not like going to school in Texas is FREE or anything. It can be as expensive as anywhere else and getting in on the top 10 percent doesn't promise you ANYTHING other than admission. And as we are based on a 4.0 system in Texas if you got a 4.0 you'll be in the top ten percent of your class period.
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2004, 06:13 PM
wrigley wrigley is offline
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I watched the 60 minutes program. I'm confused about the requirements of the program.

The girl who was able to go to UT-A had a low enough SAT score that she was embarrassed to mention it on national television. Does the Texas program for the high school students in the top 10% just look at class rank and nothing else?
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2004, 06:22 PM
TexasStar TexasStar is offline
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Texas and Texas A&M are the flagship universities of Texas. Both schools are very large and enrollment is very competitive. At A&M alot of the 10% ers are only being admitted into the general studies major (you must declare a major at 60 hours). They have to earn there way into the various colleges. Tuition is now 20% higher at these 2 schools than other state schools. Both are trying to limit enrollment, but this law is preventing this. I think automatically admitting students to schools like these can set them up for failure if they didn' t come prepared. Some will meet the challenge and some will get lost in the shuffle.
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2004, 06:35 PM
IvySpice IvySpice is offline
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Quote:
the low percentage of minorities in some of Texas's biggest universities. She wanted to increase that percentage
Correction: they wanted to increase that percentage without affirmative action.

The main problem with this system in my view is that it's entirely dependent on high school segregation. If the high schools reflected the mix in the towns and cities, then the top 10% rule wouldn't work. So it's a disincentive to do anything to integrate the schools; the state can just point to the fact that Jane Student at 99% black, low-achieving high school is automatically admitted to UT, and they're off the hook to actually repair the school system.
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2004, 06:51 PM
K.O.T.S K.O.T.S is offline
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in649704.shtml

the student from san antonio is currently an A-B student at UT. there is also the CAP program that allows automatic admittance to UT for a student that attends a UT system school for their freshman year, maintains a 3.0, and acquires 30 hrs. i am from san antonio. a few of my classmates that i graduated with that were "top-tenners" are at UT doing well. the former high school we attended is in the same district as Fox Tech, the alma mater of the student in the story. it all comes down to how far do you want to go and how far do you think you can go, b/c there will always be an obstacle in route to your goal, but will you let it stop your progress.
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2004, 07:06 PM
lyrica9 lyrica9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by wrigley
Does the Texas program for the high school students in the top 10% just look at class rank and nothing else?
yes, and by that i mean, if they are in the top ten percent it doesn't matter if they got a 300 on their SAT, they're automatically accepted.
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2004, 04:56 PM
SATX*APhi SATX*APhi is offline
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I graduated from a Texas high school with a 3.9 GPA and barely made the top 25% of my class (there were about 550 of us). I remember during my junior year of high school thinking about transferring to a less competitive high school, where I would have easily made the top 10%, but it wasn't worth it to me to leave my friends and the high school that I loved. In the end it had no affect on me because I decided to attend a private university.

I graduated with some really good kids that had 3.9 - 4.0 GPAs, who were very active in extracurricular activities, and were not accepted into UT or A&M. Several decided to go out of state and others went to private universities. In fact, one of my best friends missed the 10% mark by something like 0.05% and didn't get accepted into UT (he submitted an application) but did get accepted into Harvard.

I don't know where I stand on this issue, but the top 10% system definitely has its flaws. There is talk about capping the freshman class at public universities to 50% automatic acceptance, but that would then mean that those in the top 10% of their class would have to vie for a spot in that 50%, which defeats its purpose (automatic acceptance).
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  #13  
Old 10-19-2004, 05:04 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Florida also has this plan, only it's for the top 20% instead of the top 10%.

Does the UT/A&M system offer scholarships for the "top" students in the entering class, like Florida does with its "Bright Futures"?
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  #14  
Old 10-19-2004, 08:10 PM
K.O.T.S K.O.T.S is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Munchkin03
Does the UT/A&M system offer scholarships for the "top" students in the entering class, like Florida does with its "Bright Futures"? [/B]



No. just automatic admission. the rest is on the student.
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  #15  
Old 10-19-2004, 08:26 PM
Exquisite5 Exquisite5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by K.O.T.S
No. just automatic admission. the rest is on the student.
This is not entirely true. While what TX has is not as good as FL- we do have something.

Valedictorians of any TX high school receive their freshman year tuition free at a public university. Also, TX A&M has the Century Scholars program which provides students from certain high schools the opportunity to get a "debt free" degree. I.e. their unmet need (as determiend by FAFSA) is met by the university via scholarship.

I was a top ten percenter. I graduated with a 4.38 gpa and I KNOW I deserved my admission and scholarship to Texas A&M. However, I went to a very competitive high school and was more than prepared for college. I could have easily gotten in TAMU on my own, but it was nice to know that I had admission to the TX flagship schools (and any other) in the bank.

I agree that some students from lower performing high schools, though in the top ten percent may not be ready for UT or A&M. However, I respect individuals and think that any student who is given an opportunity should take it upon themselves to do something with it. Do NOT blame the state of TX if you took an opportunity you weren't ready for. Remember, you get admission to ANY state school, if you aren't confident in your abilities to perform at A&M or UT- got to Texas Sate, Sam Houston, SFA or TSU. I AM SO SICK OF THE LACK OF PERSONAL ACCOUTABILITY.

Personal accountability is also my response to those private schoolers whining about not getting in to TAMU or UT due to their top ten percentonly having three people. Ummmmmmmmmm, be responsible- if UT admission is your goal and you don't think you're gonna be top ten percent- CHANGE SCHOOLS. We are all responsible for our choices. If you want to stay with your friends..fine. But don't bit*c and moan when you're going to out of state cuz you couldn't get to UT. You and your parents chose to take the risk- suck it up! The point of the program is to excel where you are- and apparently you didn't.

This is important to me because there ARE students from lower performing high schools who are admitted via Top ten percent to A&M who have horrible SAT scores and STILL go on to perform wonderfully at A&M and UT. I know many personally. Also, such students should NOT be held accountable for their parents mistakes or financial shortcomings (which dictate the community in which they live and what public school they go to). Just because someone is forced to go to a school based on where they live, and that particular school may be "low performing" or even "failing" the CHILD should not be held accountable. There is a big difference in kids in private schools who took active steps and made an active choice to be there and our children in TX's poorest schools most of whom are there because they are forced and due to money, bad parenting, or limited geographic choices (outside of Dallas and Houston TX is very rural and many of the small farm towns where cows outnumber people have only one school- often poor- and no option of private school) have no where else to go.

While I think top ten percent has some flaws, I think this is what it is trying to accomodate. Don't say you won't consider race and then hold a child hostage based on a school you MADE him go to.

Last edited by Exquisite5; 10-19-2004 at 10:31 PM.
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