Restrictions on wearing letters

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

. Good places to wear letters: volunteering in the community, class, religious organizations, etc.

I disagree completely with the last one. For a sorority to be interpreted as espousing a particular religion (unless they ARE affiliated with one per their charter) is just as inappropriate as the political example.

Sorry but in this case if you do one, you definitely gotta do the other.

Also, volunteering at Planned Parenthood could be interpreted as "volunteering in the community" and not "political," and there are plenty of people out there who don't agree with some of the things PP does. Just because you're not marching up and down the street with a sign in your hand doesn't mean you're not making a political statement.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I disagree completely with the last one. For a sorority to be interpreted as espousing a particular religion (unless they ARE affiliated with one per their charter) is just as inappropriate as the political example.

Sorry but in this case if you do one, you definitely gotta do the other.

Also, volunteering at Planned Parenthood could be interpreted as "volunteering in the community" and not "political," and there are plenty of people out there who don't agree with some of the things PP does.

As long as no member of a certain religion is told they CAN'T wear their letters around their religious organization, I don't see the problem. For instance, a lot of my chapter sisters regularly attended Campus Outreach in letters. I affiliate with no religion, but I can't think of a reason why that would offend me. I'm not talking about militant groups that preach prejudice against another group or religion, but instead bible studies, campus outreach meetings, or for instance being a camp counselor at camps with religious affiliation that are moderate. I know it's POSSIBLE that someone would assume we were a Christian chapter because sisters attended CO while wearing letters, but that's probably not likely. It depends on the chapter and their campus's culture I'm sure.

IMO that's different from attending a "pro-life" stake out of an abortion clinic, or other such public and radical rallies.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

It depends on the chapter and their campus's culture I'm sure.

Yes it does. The problem is the slippery slope. Some people consider their political beliefs just as important as others consider their religion, and when you tell one girl that wearing letters to the Methodist Church cookout is OK and tell another girl that wearing letters to a Ron Paul rally is forbidden...then you're going to tick someone off.

[SDer]

my chapter doesn't mind

[Drolefille]

I think it's important that there's a difference between wearing an "XYZ supports <SOMETHING>" shirt and wearing your letters in public to events you choose to attend.

And I question whether the original sister objected to the concept as a whole or only because it was in regards to something she disapproved of.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yes it does. The problem is the slippery slope. Some people consider their political beliefs just as important as others consider their religion, and when you tell one girl that wearing letters to the Methodist Church cookout is OK and tell another girl that wearing letters to a Ron Paul rally is forbidden...then you're going to tick someone off.

Well let me put it this way...MANY sororities have religious references in ritual or ceremonies. It's hard to cut out all religious association when there are references left from the days of many of our founders. I can't see myself telling a sister she can't wear her jersey to a Campus Outreach meeting, even though you couldn't pay me to attend one. But politics are ever changing and generally speaking can get much more extreme than youth groups. (Again, I'm not talking about any religious organizations that are extreme...I don't know what you'd do about that, but I haven't had any experience with a situation like that.) Girls in sororities on my campus were frequently asked not to wear letters to meetings of a club that supports the legalization of marijuana. I'm much more likely to attend that meeting than Campus Outreach, but I can see why letters don't belong there. People probably assume that attendees are potheads. It's one thing to assume that, it's another to walk into a room and see ten XYZ shirts. What assumptions would be made there? As I see it, most religions can be boiled down to this: they encourage and help their followers to be better people. Of course, not everyone is a good follower, but the religions themselves are good things, as far as I'm concerned. I don't mind a sister showing she is religious and loves her organization by wearing her badge to church or temple or whatever.

Like I said, I'm sure the situation would vary from chapter to chapter, depending on campus culture. I went to school in the south, where not only is religion part of the ritual of many of the sororities on campus, it's just part of the community. It wouldn't be worth the fight to tell people they had to disassociate from their organization when attending religion related activities. Trust me, it would be a FIGHT. I also have friends at a school that associates directly with a Christian denomination. Obviously on their campus, their letters are directly connected to religion by default, even though none of the organizations are Christian.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Well let me put it this way...MANY sororities have religious references in ritual or ceremonies. It's hard to cut out all religious association when there are references left from the days of many of our founders.

I know that in my sorority, Jesus Christ is one of our exemplars and we do have Bible quotes here and there. That doesn't mean you have to be a Christian to join (any more than you have to be a follower of Hermes, another one of our exemplars). I don't consider that a "religious association" as we are not asking girls to do anything more than listen to it during ritual. What if a sister's a Wiccan? Is she allowed to sit at the "Campus Wiccan Club" information booth with a letter shirt on?

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Girls in sororities on my campus were frequently asked not to wear letters to meetings of a club that supports the legalization of marijuana. I'm much more likely to attend that meeting than Campus Outreach, but I can see why letters don't belong there. People probably assume that attendees are potheads. It's one thing to assume that, it's another to walk into a room and see ten XYZ shirts. What assumptions would be made there?

This reminds me of Donna Martin on 90210 leading the "condoms in school" crusade and David assuming that she was using them...when actually she was a virgin. It might be that people just don't approve of the ridiculous "war on drugs" and the insanely long sentences given to nonviolent offenders (while rapists and murderers are released to make room for them). I guess it's a different little world in the south, but I personally would be extremely offended if, as it seems, some people's beliefs are more equal than others.

[AnotherKD]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I think it's important that there's a difference between wearing an "XYZ supports <SOMETHING>" shirt and wearing your letters in public to events you choose to attend.

And I question whether the original sister objected to the concept as a whole or only because it was in regards to something she disapproved of.

Well, kind of both. She originally felt a little weird seeing her letters seemingly attached to the campaign of a certain political party, and when she wondered if there was a rule about wearing letters while doing things like that, she was told that the sisters didn't mind, as long as it was for a certain political party. That is when she became more uncomfortable. The unofficial word was that the upperclassmen (and most of the sisters, anyhow) thought it was great for one, and a no-go for the other. I just think that kind of sucks. She's not someone who is okay with confrontation, so I'm not sure she knows what she will do next, if anything.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I think it's important that there's a difference between wearing an "XYZ supports <SOMETHING>" shirt and wearing your letters in public to events you choose to attend.

Not necessarily.

Besides -- don't undergrads have other shirts? I say save the GLO shirts for GLO functions.

[als463]

As a conservative (and sometimes I feel like the only one left), I would not feel comfortable wearing a "Phi Mu supports McCain" shirt or something along those lines. I don't feel I should place my GLO's letters along "supports ___" because, although I may support it-I have many sisters who do not.

I remember this was an issue when I was an undergrad. We had a shirt that said something along the lines of "We support the LGBT community" or "Gay Penn State" or something. On the back it listed all the organizations that supported the shirt. My GLO (as well as the GLO of EVERY organization, pretty much) was on the shirt. Don't get me wrong-I have no issues supporting the gay community but, sometimes they are very IN YOUR FACE about things that make me uncomfortable. They wave flags at homecoming that say "We Are...Gay Penn State" or have kissing contests on the stairs of Old Main. I don't care if you are gay or straight...I don't need to see you making out on a park bench...There is a time and place for everything (gay or straight). I did not appreciate my group supporting certain organizations without an actual vote being done.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I know that in my sorority, Jesus Christ is one of our exemplars and we do have Bible quotes here and there. That doesn't mean you have to be a Christian to join (any more than you have to be a follower of Hermes, another one of our exemplars). I don't consider that a "religious association" as we are not asking girls to do anything more than listen to it during ritual. What if a sister's a Wiccan? Is she allowed to sit at the "Campus Wiccan Club" information booth with a letter shirt on?

Ok? Like I said, my chapter has no religious association, but I don't mind a sister going to a youth group with an XYZ t-shirt on. Why wouldn't a Wiccan sister be extended that same freedom? I don't understand why that choice as your example.

Originally Posted by 33girl

This reminds me of Donna Martin on 90210 leading the "condoms in school" crusade and David assuming that she was using them...when actually she was a virgin. It might be that people just don't approve of the ridiculous "war on drugs" and the insanely long sentences given to nonviolent offenders (while rapists and murderers are released to make room for them). I guess it's a different little world in the south, but I personally would be extremely offended if, as it seems, some people's beliefs are more equal than others.

It's not a "different little world in the south". It is a fact that religion often factors more in to daily life in the south, especially in small towns. It is also a fact that people WILL assume that if you join a club that supports legalizing marijuana that you smoke it. Not everyone will think that. But some will. Regardless, it's a separate issue. I KNOW that because I attended some meetings for an organization supporting the legalization of marijuana that some people assumed I smoke it. It's none of their business, but that's illegal, so it never bothered me to just change t-shirts or not wear a shirt with letters on those days. I get why they ask that. And if the same is asked of people in other politically associated groups, regardless of the majority's beliefs, I just can't see the problem. An easy solution would be to specify that letters not be worn to political rallies of any kind, from a Republican convention to a rally to legalize pot.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

Well, kind of both. She originally felt a little weird seeing her letters seemingly attached to the campaign of a certain political party, and when she wondered if there was a rule about wearing letters while doing things like that, she was told that the sisters didn't mind, as long as it was for a certain political party. That is when she became more uncomfortable. The unofficial word was that the upperclassmen (and most of the sisters, anyhow) thought it was great for one, and a no-go for the other. I just think that kind of sucks. She's not someone who is okay with confrontation, so I'm not sure she knows what she will do next, if anything.

Ah I see. Quite frankly I think that if you're working for Joe Politician, you shouldn't be wearing letters, if you're going to see Joe Politician speak you can wear whatever the hell you want. And that it should be that way no matter what issues Joe Politician stands for.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Not necessarily.

Besides -- don't undergrads have other shirts? I say save the GLO shirts for GLO functions.

I think it makes a difference, one makes a claim for the org, the other doesn't. Arguably individual members don't have the authority to make a claim for the org. anyway so there are probably few if any legal issues associated even if someone wanted to go after non-profit status.

NPC chapter get so many event shirts that wearing them only to greek events doesn't make sense and it is often encourage that they wear letters on campus anyway. (YMMV of course, but this is pretty standard in the NPC) Also if there's not a problem listing College Republicans as well as College Democrats on the "List of activities our members participate in" there really shouldn't be an expectation that Sally ABC isn't going to go to Joe Politician's speech on campus when one of those orgs brought him there.

/thinks this has a lot to do with how we demonize "the other side"

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

She originally felt a little weird seeing her letters seemingly attached to the campaign of a certain political party, and when she wondered if there was a rule about wearing letters while doing things like that, she was told that the sisters didn't mind, as long as it was for a certain political party. That is when she became more uncomfortable.

That is absolutely effed up. I mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago about how a certain trendy restaurant around here assumes that everyone who eats there is a liberal, and there were names of drinks etc on the menu that would offend me if I was a conservative. I will never patronize it again - not because Rush Limbaugh is my BFF but because it's a classic case of "well, the liberals can talk all the shit they want about conservatives, but if Glenn Beck says this or that he must be tarred and feathered." That sort of double standard doesn't fly with me.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

It is a fact that religion often factors more in to daily life in the south, especially in small towns.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Some people consider their political beliefs just as important as others consider their religion.

Just in case you missed my point (by "just in case" I mean "it sailed over your head like a pterodactyl").

[remmie_k]

I know what your friend means. There have been times when girls around here have worn their letters and been on the news for being at controversial things. People start thinking if one girl is there wearing those letters then all the girls must support it. I think you should wear your letters if you support a local politician that was part of your sorority but only if you want to. In all fairness if a girl you shouldn't have to hide your letters because it is who you are but if people don't agree with what you support they start labeling everyone in your group as one. Sophomore year one cheerleader had been caught doing drugs so now every cheerleader must be bad and had to be tested. I don't get the no letters at bars because everyone knows you are a abc and drink but it is like saying you are two different people, one that drinks and then the other is a sweet sorority gril from next door.