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  #61  
Old 04-19-2008, 06:37 PM
Lucky SC Lucky SC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehouse View Post
"We've got a little over 150, averaging about 45 per pledge class, plus about 10 spring guys, and of course we'll lose some older guys to dues, transfer, etc. That said I know who everyone in my chapter is."

Same here. We'll initiate 50 a year; with graduation losses and drop-outs, chapter size is stable at around 180. Brotherhood in a large chapter is enhanced by group identity and winning. Define winning any way you want; whatever fires up the Brothers and makes them proud.

However, I do believe the size of a chapter is natually tied to the campus. If you're at Virginia, there are 33 fraternities and the "best" fraternities have an average size of around 60.
If you're at Ole Miss, there are far fewer fraternities, but the top chapter sizes are very large. It depends on the culture of the campus. If you're at Ole Miss, you cannot effectively maintain a 60-man chapter and compete with the Phi Delts, Sigma Nus, Pikes, Sigma Chis, etc. (I know I'm missing some).
how many fraternties do you have on your campus if you got 150+ guys in it?
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  #62  
Old 04-19-2008, 10:29 PM
Firehouse Firehouse is offline
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ElephantWalk ("We've got a little over 150, averaging about 45 per pledge class") goes to the University of Arkansas; my campus is Florida State.
Arkansas has twelve IFC fraternities (I'm not counting one small ethnic fraternity), and Florida State has twenty (counting an unrecognized SAE chapter).

The number of fraternities has almost nothing to do with size of the top chapters. Penn State has over 50 fraternity chapters, but the prestige houses have 55-75 thereabouts. The University of Illinois has even more chapters than Penn State, but the top fraternities all have substantially over 100.
  #63  
Old 04-20-2008, 06:18 AM
Elephant Walk Elephant Walk is offline
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Actually we have 14 counting the ethnic one and the newest colony.

The colony has to get 105 to become a chapter, apparently.

That's not going to happen. They're going to have to bid every single person who didn't get a bid everywhere else and even then, they're not going to get the guys they need. With the start they've had...they're in bad shape.

edit: Not knowing specific recent figures, but having seen a year old one...I think there are 5 chapters that number above 150, LXA, KE, PDT, EX, SAE
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Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance it happens very far away way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke

Last edited by Elephant Walk; 04-20-2008 at 07:28 AM.
  #64  
Old 04-20-2008, 09:16 PM
SECdomination SECdomination is offline
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Originally Posted by PhiGam View Post
Having over 120 guys is stupid though.
I think it depends on what you're looking for. My chapter is at 135 right now, and I know every single guy fairly well. I don't mind the large numbers- it makes our campus seem a heck of a lot smaller.

And we're not even close to the biggest. Fourth or fifth, I think.
Sig Ep - A year ago they were over 170.
Beta - 150+
Phi Delt - 147 or something close
Kappa Sig - 135
Sigma Chi -130+
SAE and ATO hover around 100-110.

It's important here to have significant numbers, or our sororities of 180+ won't want to have socials with you.

ETA: Oh, and we have 26 IFC fraternities.
  #65  
Old 04-20-2008, 10:08 PM
AnchorAlum AnchorAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Walk View Post
Oh. Like Pike being top-tier at FSU type deal? I understand it.

I just honestly wasn't aware of a decent Sig Ep chapter anywhere in an SEC school, including Florida.

I wasn't going to rag on you on the issue of the Southernality of Florida. As long as you keep representing the SEC in football, I'm okay with it. Even if Tebow is the worst Heisman winner. Including Jason White.

I'm always fascinated by the Pikes at FSU. Back in the day they were definitely NOT a top tier house, and in fact were on the low end of the middle tier. I think it was when they built that house in 1970 things started to turn around for them, but even then the PDT's and SAE's were at the top of the heap when I left.
  #66  
Old 04-21-2008, 01:20 AM
PhiGam PhiGam is offline
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Originally Posted by AnchorAlum View Post
I'm always fascinated by the Pikes at FSU. Back in the day they were definitely NOT a top tier house, and in fact were on the low end of the middle tier. I think it was when they built that house in 1970 things started to turn around for them, but even then the PDT's and SAE's were at the top of the heap when I left.
They aren't really a southern-type fraternity. Its hard to rate them, sig ep, and phi sig because while they do really well with girls they aren't very well liked by other fraternities.
  #67  
Old 04-25-2008, 10:36 PM
IOPIKE IOPIKE is offline
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I'm curious to this. I'm a pike, but I'm north of the Mason dixon(yea i know, don't show me the door), but I was always under the impression that PIKE was a southern type fraternity, as they were formed in Virginia and are by far not one of the newest fraternities.


I know this probably isnt the right place to post this, but why is it that people view PIKE as a non-southern fraternity?

I may have answered my own question when there are chapters past the Mason Dixon.
  #68  
Old 04-26-2008, 01:52 AM
FlaGirl07 FlaGirl07 is offline
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well, if i were a guy, I'd go for Delta Tau Delta, talk about prime property to have a house!

(btw, i am ignorant of UF tiers, I was in UF-bound for a month before transferring to FSU)
  #69  
Old 04-26-2008, 11:40 AM
Elephant Walk Elephant Walk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IOPIKE View Post
I'm curious to this. I'm a pike, but I'm north of the Mason dixon(yea i know, don't show me the door), but I was always under the impression that PIKE was a southern type fraternity, as they were formed in Virginia and are by far not one of the newest fraternities.


I know this probably isnt the right place to post this, but why is it that people view PIKE as a non-southern fraternity?

I may have answered my own question when there are chapters past the Mason Dixon.
It's not an issue of where they were founded, really...though it helps.

Pike has tended (as long as I've known and as many Pike chapters I've met) to rush athletes. Well-known for roids, tanning, spiked gelled hair, etc. like Barbed-wire tattoos and so forth. Most of the guys from the chapter here are from north Dallas/Plano area. Enough said, I think
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Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance it happens very far away way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
  #70  
Old 04-26-2008, 07:48 PM
Firehouse Firehouse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IOPIKE View Post
I'm curious to this. I'm a pike, but I'm north of the Mason dixon(yea i know, don't show me the door), but I was always under the impression that PIKE was a southern type fraternity, as they were formed in Virginia and are by far not one of the newest fraternities.
I know this probably isnt the right place to post this, but why is it that people view PIKE as a non-southern fraternity?
I may have answered my own question when there are chapters past the Mason Dixon.
I'll take a run at it, but I'm sure there is a wide range of opinion. My guess is that "southern" is a word used by those of us in the south to define a specific culture within fraternity life. I doubt that the word is used outside the south as a definitive term.
There are very "southern" campuses like Alabama and Ole Miss where the predominant campus culture is defined by a specific style of dress and behavior. Within fraternities at those schools, for instance, there is often a racial (but not necessarily racist) element to the "southern" definition.

If I was to define what a "southern" fraternity is like, I'd say they dress in whatever style is considered preppy (today that means pastel polos and certain brands of shoes and khakis and blazers), they are very social, not overly concerned with athletic competition (nor perhaps competition of any kind), and tend to have very rigorous pledge programs. They are large chapters, very successful, tend to pledge boys from the best families concentrated in specific cities, and benefit from the loyalty of generous alumni.

My observation is that there are schools in the deep south where the entire fraternity atmosphere is overwhelmingly "southern". Any fraternity that deviates from that will find it very difficult to be considered among the selective elite on that campus. And when I say "to be considered" I mean by elite peers and by the best sororities.

That said, there are also campuses in the south (I'm familiar with all the public universities in Florida) with large, prosperous greek systems where different types of fraternities pursue different but parallel cultures, and you don't have to be "southern" to be counted among the elite by the top sororities and other elite peers.

I was asked by national officers of another fraternity about the campus fraternity culture at Florida State, to help them evaluate the approach they'll take when they colonize. I told them the system is very strong, but FSU is not a purely "southern" campus and there are different paths to the elite circle. If you want to get to the top here, you have a lot of cultural flexibility but there are things you must not do.

Here's what I said,
First, do not pledge openly homo members. It is probably acceptable in the northeast and on the west coast but not in the south. And it's not unacceptable in just "southern" fraternities, but in all elite fraternities on major campuses in the south. I watched that issue help destroy one the strongsest FSU fraternities four or five years ago. I imagine that any large group of handsome, well-dressed undergrads possibly has some homosexual members, but in the elite chapters these men have enough grace and sense of loyalty to their brothers to conceal that behavior, at least until after college.

Second, the "south Florida" influence is strong in all Florida schools in terms of hair, clothes and lifestyle. This is very different than the look of the "southern fraternities"; however fraternities with both styles are accepted into the elite.

Third, racial diversity is OK. You're not going to see blacks in the "southern fraternities"; or if they are there its certainly not in any numbers. On a campus where the social atmosphere is entirely "southern", recruiting a racially diverse membership will damage a chapter's chance of being taken seriously by the top-rated peers and sororities. However, at FSU "southern" and non-southern fraternities are equally accepted in the elite circles. These attitudes probably reflect the attitude of the broad culture of this state.

So, among the twenty IFC fraternities at FSU, the top tier includes both "southern" (Sigma Chi, Lambda Chi, KA) as well as the less culturally southern chapters who stress sports and leadership and have some racial diversity (Pike, Delt, Phi Sig, and Sig Ep before they got kicked off) and non-southern fraternities that emphasize [I don't know what to call it] "involvement" in campus organizations and winning community service awards, like Phi Tau and Theta Chi.

To the poster who said he generally observed Pike as the athlete fraternity on the campuses he's seen: yes that's true but I have no idea why. Jay Langhammer, an alumnus of Delta Tau Delta who writes articles on greek athletes for various fraternities' magazines, says that Pike has by far more major varsity athletes at D-I schools...but he doesn't know why and no one else seems to know either.
  #71  
Old 04-26-2008, 08:22 PM
Elephant Walk Elephant Walk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehouse View Post
I'll take a run at it, but I'm sure there is a wide range of opinion. My guess is that "southern" is a word used by those of us in the south to define a specific culture within fraternity life. I doubt that the word is used outside the south as a definitive term.
There are very "southern" campuses like Alabama and Ole Miss where the predominant campus culture is defined by a specific style of dress and behavior. Within fraternities at those schools, for instance, there is often a racial (but not necessarily racist) element to the "southern" definition.

If I was to define what a "southern" fraternity is like, I'd say they dress in whatever style is considered preppy (today that means pastel polos and certain brands of shoes and khakis and blazers), they are very social, not overly concerned with athletic competition (nor perhaps competition of any kind), and tend to have very rigorous pledge programs. They are large chapters, very successful, tend to pledge boys from the best families concentrated in specific cities, and benefit from the loyalty of generous alumni.

My observation is that there are schools in the deep south where the entire fraternity atmosphere is overwhelmingly "southern". Any fraternity that deviates from that will find it very difficult to be considered among the selective elite on that campus. And when I say "to be considered" I mean by elite peers and by the best sororities.

That said, there are also campuses in the south (I'm familiar with all the public universities in Florida) with large, prosperous greek systems where different types of fraternities pursue different but parallel cultures, and you don't have to be "southern" to be counted among the elite by the top sororities and other elite peers.

I was asked by national officers of another fraternity about the campus fraternity culture at Florida State, to help them evaluate the approach they'll take when they colonize. I told them the system is very strong, but FSU is not a purely "southern" campus and there are different paths to the elite circle. If you want to get to the top here, you have a lot of cultural flexibility but there are things you must not do.

Here's what I said,
First, do not pledge openly homo members. It is probably acceptable in the northeast and on the west coast but not in the south. And it's not unacceptable in just "southern" fraternities, but in all elite fraternities on major campuses in the south. I watched that issue help destroy one the strongsest FSU fraternities four or five years ago. I imagine that any large group of handsome, well-dressed undergrads possibly has some homosexual members, but in the elite chapters these men have enough grace and sense of loyalty to their brothers to conceal that behavior, at least until after college.

Second, the "south Florida" influence is strong in all Florida schools in terms of hair, clothes and lifestyle. This is very different than the look of the "southern fraternities"; however fraternities with both styles are accepted into the elite.

Third, racial diversity is OK. You're not going to see blacks in the "southern fraternities"; or if they are there its certainly not in any numbers. On a campus where the social atmosphere is entirely "southern", recruiting a racially diverse membership will damage a chapter's chance of being taken seriously by the top-rated peers and sororities. However, at FSU "southern" and non-southern fraternities are equally accepted in the elite circles. These attitudes probably reflect the attitude of the broad culture of this state.

So, among the twenty IFC fraternities at FSU, the top tier includes both "southern" (Sigma Chi, Lambda Chi, KA) as well as the less culturally southern chapters who stress sports and leadership and have some racial diversity (Pike, Delt, Phi Sig, and Sig Ep before they got kicked off) and non-southern fraternities that emphasize [I don't know what to call it] "involvement" in campus organizations and winning community service awards, like Phi Tau and Theta Chi.

To the poster who said he generally observed Pike as the athlete fraternity on the campuses he's seen: yes that's true but I have no idea why. Jay Langhammer, an alumnus of Delta Tau Delta who writes articles on greek athletes for various fraternities' magazines, says that Pike has by far more major varsity athletes at D-I schools...but he doesn't know why and no one else seems to know either.
Co-sign.

At Florida/Florida State...other Southern Universities...there's two thoughts on the tier-system. Yeah, you can put Florida State Pike top-tier in terms of most members, girls, house, etc. But by most peoples thinking, they would put them 2nd tier.

I don't know the deal why Pike is always athletic...but it seems across the board almost. I do know that they have "SLAG"...scholars/leaders/athletes/...generals? haha I don't remember what the last one stands for. I don't know how long they've been doing "SLAG", but still...emphasizing athletics is kind of a queer way to go about rush as a motto.
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Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance it happens very far away way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
  #72  
Old 04-26-2008, 08:50 PM
SECdomination SECdomination is offline
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Good post, Firehouse. That pretty much sums it up. Here at UF, there are about 7 fraternities that are on top, fighting to stay on top, or trying to break into the top- and only two have any amount of SoFla tendencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Walk View Post
Co-sign.

"SLAG"...scholars/leaders/athletes/...generals? haha I don't remember what the last one stands for. I don't know how long they've been doing "SLAG", but still...emphasizing athletics is kind of a queer way to go about rush as a motto.
Gentlemen.
I've seen Sigma Chi shirts here that say the same thing.
  #73  
Old 05-12-2008, 12:51 AM
IHeartUGA IHeartUGA is offline
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From a southern girl's point of view, SAE is the best at Florida. Even if they do wear orange...
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Alpha Gamma Delta
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  #74  
Old 05-12-2008, 09:09 AM
baci baci is offline
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Can you sum up (again) what the So-Fl tendencies actually are? I would like to have some insight into this stereotype.
  #75  
Old 05-12-2008, 05:51 PM
SECdomination SECdomination is offline
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Can you sum up (again) what the So-Fl tendencies actually are? I would like to have some insight into this stereotype.

sunglasses at night
talking on the cell phone in the elevator, on the bus, or in the library
livestrong bracelets
Jewish
oxfords with obnoxious vertical stripes
New York or Boston accents
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