NPHC BGLO's how do you feel about non NPHC BGLO's

PositivelyAKA: I like what you said. Although I'm not in a BGLO, I do have experience with other groups "stealing" my sorority's colors/symbols/ideas/etc. They did not know the meanings behind anything, but still used some of the symbols (i.e. we have the same flower but I'm sure it doesn't mean the same thing). It really irritates me that they took advantage of the founders of my sorority to form their own organization. Obviously I have no respect for their organization.

[Gina_lynn]

I wasn't going to say anything on this, but you all have driven me to it.

PositivelyAKA, I agree with you about basing your founding on the percieved downfalls of other groups. That kind of thing promotes division. Why should I embrace you in love and Greek unity if you start out by saying "I didn't want to have anything to do with you because ya'll were messing up".?

(now I KNOW this isn't going to be popular, but..) I don't see the need for more than the 9 Orgainizations in the Pan currently. In my one chapter of Delta, their is enough diversity for (just about) any young woman to find someone to bond and feel a kinship with. Now I know that if you can find that kind of diversity in one chapter of one org., you can find a chapter somewhere in one of the 4 sororities, 5 fraternities to feel at home. (I'm not including professional orgs.) That being said, the other orgainzations are out there and I wish them God speed in their service.

In terms of stepping, calls, hand signs, colors ect., those are the trappings of greekdom and have very little to do with the real purpose of the organizations. For those of you who pledged non NPHC organizations because of the percieved arogence and hostility, I can tell you that nine times out of ten, when greeks do display these traits they are directly linked to those trappings. (When was the last time you heard of a fight between two BGLOs that was based on a philosophical difference?) If you get caught up in those things, you'll become what you started the orgainizations to get away from.



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If you can't raise conciousness, at least raise hell!--Rita Mae Brown

[Eclipse]

Disgogoddess, I believe we are in the same age range, and what you said is the way it was back in the day. As a child of the 70s & 80s who's mother was previously a graduate advisor to an undergrad chapter of a BGL sorority at an HBCU (how's that for a lot of information!) I attended quite a few 'probate' shows. The tradition at this school was that the probate shows of all of the organizations were done at the same time during the so-called 'hell week'. It was kind of an opportunity for the pledgees to prove to their big sisters, and the world, that they had learned what they were suppose to learn and were indeed worthy to cross the 'burning sands.' The lenghty recitations (sp?) and steps were similar to the ones today. I remember my mother being particularly put out when her sorority's group of pledgees messed up. Not because she was embarassed of them, but because she knew that, as a graduate advisor, she would be up half the night making sure nothing bad happened to the girls.

[PositivelyAKA]

Originally posted by divinerose:
PositivelyAKA:

I am a memeber of a non-NPHC greek-lettered organization, Sigma Alpha Iota International Professional Music Fraternity for Women and I must comment on a few things you mentioned in you post. You stated that you didn't think that these "new organizations" know not to copy colors, calls, or hand signs, etc..., well, I am really tried of people believing that because it has not always been at your university, the org is new. We have this problem at our school (an HBCU), my fraternity's colors are crimson and white and have been since 1903. Therefore, I believe we were around way before any of the Divine Nine. Likewise, with other non-NPHC org, they have been around for a long time (I.E. Phi Mu Alpha founded 1898). My message is to KNOW and then discuss because my org is not trying to be like any other, we are just doing what we love to do, be it stepping, singing, or whatever! Please excuse me if you felt I attacked you, I am just tried of the mentality.

divinerose

i think you misinterpreted my post. i am aware that before the divine nine there were other greek organizations. however i am not concerned with them or what they do, they were not open to my people then and i am not interested in them today. no one owns a particular color of course, however i would not be particularly happy if another black sorority was founded with my sororities colors or anything else pertaining to our style, that's just me. As with the crimson and white thang going on on your campus well i don't think that pertains to me or my sorority so i will leave it alone. I don't compare GLO's with BGLO's they are too different historically and in purpose and dept. My reference was about new BGLO's and again i have no problem with them as long as they respect my organization i will respect theirs.

PositivelyAKA:

I am a memeber of a non-NPHC greek-lettered organization, Sigma Alpha Iota International Professional Music Fraternity for Women and I must comment on a few things you mentioned in you post. You stated that you didn't think that these "new organizations" know not to copy colors, calls, or hand signs, etc..., well, I am really tried of people believing that because it has not always been at your university, the org is new. We have this problem at our school (an HBCU), my fraternity's colors are crimson and white and have been since 1903. Therefore, I believe we were around way before any of the Divine Nine. Likewise, with other non-NPHC org, they have been around for a long time (I.E. Phi Mu Alpha founded 1898). My message is to KNOW and then discuss because my org is not trying to be like any other, we are just doing what we love to do, be it stepping, singing, or whatever! Please excuse me if you felt I attacked you, I am just tried of the mentality.

divinerose

[Discogoddess]

FYI:

I believe that using the term "probate show" when describing the presentation of new initiates is incorrect. From listening to older folks, I've learned that a probate show was a show put on by pledges of a greek organization. These shows weren't always positive experiences for the pledges performing, from what I understand. A better term would be "coming out show," "neophyte" (a term we use in the Midwest to describe both new members and the step show/party given to present them and give gifts), etc.

divinerose:

I think that what gets many NPHC members riled up about non-NPHC organizations is the appropriation of NPHC-founded symbols, imagery, language, and behavior, all the while saying that these things (hand signs, calls, steps, terms: sands, ship, line brother/sister, crossing the burning sands, etc.) are not imitations of the original. True, no one organization owns these things, but it is clear that NPHC organizations created them/brought them to prominence (be that good or bad).

Personally, I feel no ill will toward non-NPHC groups, but I do wonder if we are diluting our community service, financial, and political strength by adding more groups with similar aims. Having spent much of my professional career in nonprofit organizations, I have seen service-duplication create resource drainage, and it gets frustrating to compete with similar orgs. for talent, money, and other resources. I see the same thing with GLOs whose primary aim is to serve African American communities.

[gamma_girl52]

Greetings all...I saw this topic and I had to respond to it.

I am a member of Gamma Sigma Sigma National Service Sorority in Atlanta. Yes, some of my chapters do partake in all apsects of the NPHC (stepping, hand signs and what have you). However, the majority of them do not, and I still embrace them as my sister/soror. I also recognize Alpha Phi Omega as my esteemed brothers of service. While I can write a whole lot on what's behind that relationship, I will say that my sorority was founded because of the willingness of the founders to become a sister organization to the fraternity. Some APO's don't recognize me as their sister and vice versa with GSS (not recognizing APO) but that doesn't mean the relationship between those that DO recognize it isn't there.

I have love for ALL Greeks that uphold the standards which their founders set forth for them. So, although some of the members of black greeks don't care too much for me or my sorority, it doesn't mean I have to get down to their level and not care for them. It's all about who's the bigger person. My GSS chapter is pretty cool with everybody on my campus, so it's all love.

If anyone has more questions let me know

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by Serenity:
I just need some clarification about your post. Are you saying that Alpha Phi Omega, a service organization, calls themselves A Phi Q's, participate in step shows and have hand signs? If so, is this a relatively new thing?

In college I knew several individuals who pledged APO because it was not a social organization. If you can be in a service organization and a social organization, why would a service organization need to function as a social organization?

Correct me if I am misunderstanding your post!

I thought they were a Christian fraternity. Was I wrong?


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[Corbin Dallas]

APO is a national service fraternity, at least that's what they are at my school.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Zeta Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

This is my 1st time on Greeksource. One of my bruhs told me about Greeksource and informed me that there is a discussion going on about my sorority and my brother fraternity. Oh, I guess I should've started out by letting everybody know that I am a member of, what I consider to be the greatest sorority, Gamma Sigma Sigma National Service Sorority. And the brothers are Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity.

It intrigued me to know that there is a discussion going on about my sorority and our bruhs and our validity. And I have come to know that people fear the unknown. We get a lot of beef, including the brothers, from NPHC organizations, mainly because they don't know who we are. I have read most of the posts on this topic, and I have mixed feelings.

I am proud to say that I am one of the 15 founders of my chapter, Zeta Upsilon at Ohio State University. So I take Gamma-Sig very seriously. First of all, we were founded in 1952 by 8 groups of white women, so no, we do not consider ourselves to be a Black GLO, although we do have a huge number of Black chapters and White chapters who have Black members, as well as Black sorors serving on our National Board of Directors. To clarify, yes we do hand signs, a call, colors, and we do step. Matter-of-factly, we hold it down whenever we come out!! And I want to let everyone know that we do none of this to imitate anything the NPHC or BGLOs have taken on as traditions. In my opinion, we do these things because it is particular to us as Africans. So when I hear NPHC members say that Gamma-Sig and A-Phi-Q are not "Greek", it makes me sad because obviously somebody wasn't taught what they ought to know about the "Greek" system they live and die by!!!! It's important for us as members of GLOs to know the true African origins of our letters.

So that there will be no more misconstrued ideas nor posts about GSS and A-Phi-Q, we are BOTH national service organizations, not a business fraternity like someone mentioned prior.

In service,
Iacoca

[Corbin Dallas]

I thought APO was a coed service fraternity. No disrespect meant, but if it is, what is the need for a sister sorority. On a side note, I think I would die of laughter if I saw the APO's at my school stepping, throwing up signs, or doing calls. You just have to know them to understand.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Zeta Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

[SoCalGirl]

I agree with Steve. I'd be rollin' all over the floor if I saw APhiO steppin. At my school APhiO doesn't consider THEMSELVES Greek. I do though, but I know everthing changes at different chapters.

I'm also confused as to how a CO-ED service glo can have chapter with all men. Then those chapters develop a sister relationship with GSS. Aren't APhiO National's a little curious as to why theres no girls on their roster at those schools?

[Rain Man]

As far as Alpha Phi Omega's Nationals' curiosity about all-male chapters, they do allow all-male chapters under certain stipulations. We were founded all-male, and in 1976 allowed women to join. The all-male chapters who wished to remain all-male at the time we went coed could do so. 'Nuff said.

[gamma_girl52]

Well said, my soror!

As I said in my last post, GSS is NOT, I repeat, NOT a BGLO, is was in fact founded by white women representing 8 different colleges/universities, and I embrace all my sisters whether they are black, white or purple...it doesen't matter to me :C)

Secondly, I don't really like the term "social" when it comes to Greeks because we all ought to be using our time serving others, giving to your national philantropy (sp!), whatever. Of course we all make time for fun and fellowship, but I think what's most important is that we're all out there doing something positive for our communities.

As for my brothers, I feel you should ask a brother of Alpha Phi Omega to answer your questions in depth. But they aren't a Christian fraternity, I know that for sure :C)

I am one of the 18 founders of my chapter, Zeta Tau at Georgia State University. And I wouldn't trade my experience or my beloved sorority for the world!

[gamma_girl52]

Rain Man, I know you are not a soror! :C) What's up bruh!

I feel what you're saying...to each his own, that's what I say. And why not have a sister org? That's why I said in my last post, I could go into a novel about why we're brother and sister :C) But I love my brothers of Alpha Phi Omega, and I will continue to work with them side by side!