Discrimination?

[AKA2D '91]

I was watching Any Day Now, and came upon this topic...AGAIN!

What do you think? Is this discrimination?

An employee with child(ren) uses "job time" or time away from the job to take care of child(ren), you know what you parents do, doctor appointments, practice, etc. etc.

Yet, an employee without child(ren) wants to use his or her "job time" or time away from the job to take care of his or her business.
Also, the employee without the child(ren) has to do the job of the employee with the child(ren). When the childless employee stops or refuses to do the job, this employee is fired.

Is this discrimination?

I think with situations like these, that people without children are often "used". I know at my school, colleagues always say, well, I can't do this because I have kids. Or, Ms.AKA2d can do this, she doesn't have any kids. EXCUSE THE FREAK OUT OF ME!

Then, there was an instance where a student was hurt near the end of the day and I had to go to the hospital. I had to ride in the ambulance because the "others" had responsibilities and could not make the trip to the hospital. Because of A, B, C, or D. Heck, I have responsibilities, too. It might not include another individual, but hell, I have things to do, too!

[Catwoman]

A few years back when I worked for the state...they gave what was called "administrative leave". Once a month parents could use that time for parent/teacher conferences, to attend school programs etc. I asked my supervisor if I could take administrative leave (I don't have children) she told me no. I thought it was unfair and explained why...she said I could use it if I somehow involved children. So I used my leave to go to my church's school/daycare and visit with the kids. It gave me a break from work and allowed me to feel as though I was getting treated somewhat equally.

[PrincessELG]

If we think about it, the parents of the world are resopnsible for raising the generations to come. I am not a parent but I know that being one is a huge responsibility that should not be taken lightly. To many times parents are the ones to blame when the children are acting up in class or that they didn't spend enough time with them, so I don't see the problem with those parents who are given the opportunity to be there for thier children when they have a game or they need to speak to a teacher. I mean granted people who do not have children may feel shafted because they are not granted time to do thier "important things" but being available to stay late or fill in for a person with children is helping them to raise their child effectively. Remember, it takes a village.

[amycat412]

I don't see a problem with parents being given the freedom to attend to their families.

However, that same freedom needs to be given to people without kids as well. Just because we do not have children doesn't mean we don't have doctor, dentist, accountant, etc. appointments that occaisonally need to be taken care of during work hours.

I was thinking today on my way to work that I needed an Amy business day, as personal errands and appointments were piling up.


A

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by PrincessELG:
[BI mean granted people who do not have children may feel shafted because they are not granted time to do thier "important things" but being available to stay late or fill in for a person with children is helping them to raise their child effectively. Remember, it takes a village.[/B]

Yeah, it does take a village, but you need to do it on your OWN time!
I am notabout to do SOMEONE'S job and NOT get compensated for it! PERIOD!

Now, when AND IF, I have a child, then I need to make the necessary arrangements with my mother, my husband, or take my own time off my job to do whatever that needs to be done. I don't expect someone ELSE to do MY job!

[Destiny00]

I believe that it is some form of discrimination. Because ultimately you come to work to do just that--work. And if your share doesn't get done then someone else has to do it. However family situations aren't the only case where this happens. I used to work at a restaurant where a majority of the servers were big time smokers. They could take 5--even 10--minute breaks every 1/2 hour without the manager ever saying a word. But the non-smokers? You guessed it...

But what can you do?

[Discogoddess]

I don't think co-workers should be made to bear the burden of others' CHOICES. Having a child is a choice. Working while having a child is a choice (and if you say "no it's not a choice to work to support my child," I say you should have thought of that before having the child). I am a strong supporter of family-friendly work policies and benefits (a large part of my job is devoted to touting the beauty of such programs to employees and the public). However, same modicum of flexibility MUST be extended to ALL workers, and no one should have to compensate for a parent's workload, simply because they themselves are not parents.

[DST Love]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
I don't think co-workers should be made to bear the burden of others' CHOICES. Having a child is a choice. Working while having a child is a choice (and if you say "no it's not a choice to work to support my child," I say you should have thought of that before having the child).

I agree. My boyfriend and I have already agreed that once we get married and become ready to have children, we will make sure that we have both saved and invested enough money from our jobs prior to having children and make sure that his salary will be enough to allow me to be a stay-at-home mommy!! We currently are and God-willing should continue to be in a position to do so.

I am not condemning anyone who is not in such a position. However as Discogoddess said, it is a choice. And to me, just the same that I don't just wake up one day and buy a house or car without planning and budgeting to make sure I am able, I am definitely going to do that and then some for my future children.

I am one of four and my father has always been the only one that worked while my mom stayed home. And my parents were young parents at that. So anything can be done.



[This message has been edited by DST Love (edited March 12, 2001).]

[DST Love]

However, let me add to my previous post that I do not have a problem picking up a little (not a lot) extra work when parents have to see to their children. I'd prefer their children have their parents when they need them then not.

[Classy_Diva5]

Here's another comment on the same lines as this topic...

How do you all feel about those parents that get to bring their children to the workplace?
I remember a time when my younger sister came by just to say hello and to drop something off for me, and I was told that that was "inappropriate", but one of my co-workers had her bad-a$$ child running all through the office !

Is this situation a form of discrimination as well? I think that no matter what the circumstances are, all co-workers should be treated equally, unless a disability prevents an individual from doing so. I don't see my less than three minute visit (that was business related) inappropriate, but to have your child ripping and running through the office isn't tolerable!

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"Mind ya own, stay true to ya own, be ya own."
Peace and God Bless
Classy_Diva5

[Conskeeted19]

i am one of those parents that you guys are "itching" about . however, i do not expect anyone to do my job. if someone pulls my duty in the mornings, i do their lunch duty. i may not tutor after school, but when a sub can't be found, i always take the class. i am so thankful for my co-workers. we help each other! i am not saying that it is right for anyone to be taken advantage of - please don't take it that way. for those of you who feel like your rights are being violated, do something about it! when your time comes around, i hope that your husband, father, mother, brother, or whoever will always be at your disposal. like the sista said, "it takes a whole village." those of you without children but someday wish too have some, you will see that it is not so cut and dry!

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You are the master of your own destiny!

[Discogoddess]

Soror Conskeeted: When co-workers willingly take on other workers' responsibilities, that's fine . I think most of us are referring to managers and parent co-workers who ASSUME or DEMAND that nonparents pick up the slack of parents. That, to me, is unconscionable, just as it would to be not allow parents to use their time off (be it vacation, sick time, personal time, etc.) to attend to their children's needs. No one is beating working parents up; we're just saying it ain't our responsibility to make sure parent workers can BE good parents to their kids, especially if we're not given time to take care of personal life stuff with our earned time off too.

[tickledpink]

I've heard this argument before also. Not only am I a parent, but I am also in management, so I've had to make decisions based on both ends of the spectrum. I want to take a moment to step even further into this for a minute:

I was in a meeting once where this question was asked and I was fuming. I do not work in an environment where someone else can "take up the slack", but we all have a certain amount of hours that we can miss without incurring a "write up" (which is examined on a case by case basis). Anyway, the example that was used was what if John has band practice and Mary has a sick child. Both are equal because John doesn't have a child, therefore band is everything to him, just as the child is everything to Mary. Then the example was used, what if John's dog was sick. Should he be allowed time off to take the dog to the doctor? Now, I was fuming because we do not have sick time, just those hours, and I had a child that was in the hospital for 2 weeks. I thought that it was very insensitive to use that comparison. Compare the life of my child to bandpractice or a dog? And again, this has nothing to do with asking someone else to do my workload, because I've worked up to 60 hours a week to ensure that I'm ahead of the game. This is just speaking of what we deem as important. I'm still pondering what type of selfish, self serving society are we becoming when we can can make such analogies?

Anyway, being in the position that I'm in now, I tend to be more lenient when it comes to a family emergency (dealing with someone's well being) rather than someone that has errands to run. Run those errands on your own time, the emergency is unexpected.

[Discogoddess]

See, this is why parents get a "bum rap", if you will, because they decide that THEIR issues (related to their children) are more important than non-children or even non-family issues. I'm sure many an animal lover would say that yes, their pet's life CAN be compared to the life of a human child, and who are you to say otherwise? If people have the time off coming to them, they should be able to use it in whatever manner suits them. That's why I love my job's Time Off Program...as long as you have it in your bank to use and your manager's cool with it, you can use it. Of course, those who get their work done and shine in their projects are always going to get more leeway than those who barely make it.

[AKA_Monet]

I hate to say it but the only ONE good thing in my area of work is that time in not an issue. So if that means you have to stay at work 'til 9 PM and you got there at 9 AM then you do it. If your harvest requires you to be in the lab at mid night--oh well, the mice can't tell time and neither can the cells... But my boss is still an A$$hole about our time frames--like there can be punch clock for these kinds of things!!! But some in the field are too assholic about it, just as long as you get the work done, well in a timely manner.

And oh yeah, I've had to work thru plenty of holidays including Christmas Day, and New Years Eve without overtime pay!!! Oh the life of a researcher...

[This message has been edited by AKA_Monet (edited March 14, 2001).]