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  #271  
Old 02-01-2023, 05:17 PM
SuzyInMD SuzyInMD is offline
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The point I was making, and that I think all of you except carnation missed, is that it feels awful to be cut by over half the houses after round 1. You're criticizing PNMs for dropping rush after being cut by those houses, but you're not considering how terrible it feels. None of you have said that either you or a daughter experienced this so I'm left wondering if you have. I understand that the "top tier" houses cannot by themselves extend a bid to every woman rushing, and that cutting early makes it fairer to the PNMs so they will visit and consider the remaining sororities. Nonetheless, it feels awful to be cut from what is essentially a beauty pageant.

Daughter has a friend who went through formal recruitment as a freshman, either dropped or only listed one house after pref and didn't get a bid. TTS said to her "Come to COB, we'll give you a bid." Didn't happen. The following fall "Come to COB, we'll give you a bid." Didn't happen. Friend goes through formal recruitment again as a sophomore, TTS dropped her, her friends who were now sisters said, "Come to COB, we'll give you a bid." At this point she was aware of what was going on, she finished formal recruitment and accepted a bid from MTS (Middle Tier Sorority.) You as advisors know the chances of getting a COB from TTS may be slim to none, but you don't know what the undergraduate chapter members are saying to PNMs. While you're critical of PNMs hoping for COBs, you aren't critical of the members who may be promising them.

My daughter had been disappointed before, with parts she didn't get in high school shows, the guy she liked not returning her feelings, parties she wasn't invited to. I really didn't need a lecture about managing disappointment, which I am well aware of from my own life. You wonder why PNMs drop. I am trying to explain that many, or even possibly most, PNMs are not prepared for the drastic cuts after Round 1 (and whatever the reason was, in my daughter's case it was not grades, she had a 4.0 fall semester freshman year.) My daughter continued formal recruitment and is very happy. As I said in my original post, I don't even think she believed she was a perfect fit for TTS, she just felt crappy that 5 out of 9 houses dropped her right away. You have perceptions about PNMs and their parents, I am trying to explain how one PNM felt. Take it or leave it.
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  #272  
Old 02-01-2023, 05:18 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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Two points - COVID, all-virtual recruitment, did, overall, help weaker recruiting chapters. Did it help EVERYWHERE? No, of course not. But many "regular" campuses (not SEC schools or Indiana or those types) saw women accept bids to the weaker recruiting chapters. There has to be some reason for it, and in my humble but maybe stupid opinion, it's because women weren't so focused on pretty decorations and matching outfits, but more on true connection. Of course, after COVID, many of those women had NO IDEA what the expectation of sorority membership was and thought that they could just come and go whenever they pleased, and if they didn't want to go to stuff, they'd just not go. This led to a lot of disaffiliation. It is what it is.

Secondly, and I'll preach it til the day I die or stop advising, chapters who know they are weaker recruiting during formal recruitment have got to have their informal plans already lined up with women they already know and want in their chapter. The BEST time to get those women is right after recruitment, when they've seen all the girls on their halls or in their apartments getting bids and having fun, etc. That's when you can score some great "never" or "maybe" joiners.

We can blame spoiled freshmen who won't stick with the process, but today's 18 year olds want what they want and if they don't get it, they're done with that. But there are still plenty of women who can benefit from sorority membership and want to join. We just have to find them.
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  #273  
Old 02-01-2023, 06:43 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Suzy, of course your daughter was disappointed. Often PNMs( and parents) don’t understand that during first round it is strictly a numbers game. Those chapters that did not ask your daughter back might have been able to invite back a fraction of the PNMs because they have higher return rates. When all things are equal for the PNM, it often comes down to her connections to a chapter, and/or whether or not she dazzled her rusher during their time together. But your daughter was resilient. She brushed herself off and continued with the process and because of that, she received and accepted a bid.

Now to address your daughter’s friend. In today’s NPC recruitment process, your daughter’s friend gets a bid if she attends all her pref parties and places both, if she was invited to 2 prefs, or the one if she had an invitation to one, on her MRABA( bid card). She is guaranteed a bid. If she attends two, and places both on her MRABA, she may get a bid from either chapter, depending how she ranked them for pref, and how she appeared on their bid list( if a PNM attends a pref party she is somewhere on that bid list). If she attended one, placed them on her MRABA card, she would get a bid from them, so I have to challenge what she told your daughter. It simply doesn’t go down as she described.

I am pointing out that the PNMs you described had the glass is half empty approach. Their favorites after one round did not invite them back and they were not open minded enough to give the ones that did invite them back a second look. They decided they would rather not be Greek than join the ones who wanted to see them again. Who was being elitist? It harkens back to the famous saying of Groucho Marx-“ I would never join a club who would have me as a member.”
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Last edited by FSUZeta; 02-01-2023 at 07:03 PM.
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  #274  
Old 02-01-2023, 07:10 PM
SuzyInMD SuzyInMD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUZeta View Post
Suzy, in todayís NPC recruitment process, your daughterís friend gets a bid if she attends all her pref parties and places both, if she was invited to 2 prefs, or the one if she had an invitation to one, on her MRABA( bid card). She is guaranteed a bid. If she attends two, and places both on her MRABA, she may get a bid from either chapter, depending how she ranked them for pref, and how she appeared on their bid list. If she attended one, placed them on her MRABA card, she would get a bid from them, so I have to challenge what she told your daughter. It simply doesnít go down as she described.

I am pointing out that the PNMs you described, had the glass is half empty approach. Their favorites after one round did not invite them back and they were not open minded enough to give the ones that did invite them back a second look. They decided they would rather not be Greek than join the ones who wanted to see them again. Who was being elitist? It harkens back to the famous saying of Groucho Marx-ď I would never join a club who would have me as a member.Ē
Maybe I wasnít clear, but you are not understanding the story. I did not say the friend listed 2 houses on her bid card, I said either she dropped before pref or didnít list both houses she preffed at on her card. Iím not sure which, but I acknowledge it was her choice to not see the process through her first year. You missed the part about her being promised a bid via COB, not once, or twice but three times. She realized the promise was empty. She maximized her opportunities at her second formal recruitment and took a bid from a ďmid tierĒ house. My point of telling this story is Iíve read yours and others criticism of PNMs and their parents, but Iím relating a situation where members promised a bid via COB that wasnít delivered. You seem to not believe a bid promise could occur. Both my daughter on her first recruitment and the friend on her second saw the process through and accepted bids.
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  #275  
Old 02-01-2023, 07:47 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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I misunderstood. I read that she had attended one pref round party but did not receive a bid and that is what I was commenting on. Single Intentional Preference(SIP) where a PNM attends 2 prefs, but only lists one on her MRABA is the exception. She is not guaranteed a bid in that case. If she is listed on the sorority’s bid list before they reach the quota figure, she has a bid. Otherwise, she is out of luck, but could COB. COB is an entirely different animal and bids are not guaranteed. . It is unfortunate a bid did not come through for the PNM during COB. How great that she followed the process through the next year and did receive a bid. I hope she and your daughter are happy.
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Last edited by FSUZeta; 02-01-2023 at 08:21 PM.
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  #276  
Old 02-04-2023, 03:41 PM
Cookiez17 Cookiez17 is offline
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SUNY-Oneonta

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If I can get a bid so can you; a longer recruitment story
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  #277  
Old 02-05-2023, 06:41 PM
*winter* *winter* is offline
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Slippery Rock University- recruitment ended today. Looks like quota was 13. SRU DZ had the cutest bid day theme- honey! Not everyone has posted yet but will update when they do.
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  #278  
Old 02-06-2023, 02:36 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
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Sorry for delays, numbers are coming in pretty slowly this spring.
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  #279  
Old 02-06-2023, 03:49 PM
Cookiez17 Cookiez17 is offline
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Iona University (formerly Iona College)

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The local organizations had numbers between 10-12 for their new member classes.
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If I can get a bid so can you; a longer recruitment story
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  #280  
Old 02-07-2023, 05:44 PM
Iota_JWH Iota_JWH is offline
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More Fall 22 Grade Reports: University of Arizona

There are the NM numbers listed
AXO - 117
ADPi - 157
AEPhi - 35
A Phi - 116
ASA - 8
XO - 120
GD - 115
G Phi B - 119
Theta - 120
Kappa - 120
Pi Phi - 124
SK - 154

They list each chapters total membership, ASA only has 18 and AEPhi has 114, the rest average 371 with a high of 407.

I know the University added ASA a while back hoping it would help with the average chapter size, but 18 members! they cannot possibly do formal recruitment with the rest of the chapters
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  #281  
Old 02-07-2023, 05:48 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iota_JWH View Post
More Fall 22 Grade Reports: University of Arizona

There are the NM numbers listed
AXO - 117
ADPi - 157
AEPhi - 35
A Phi - 116
ASA - 8
XO - 120
GD - 115
G Phi B - 119
Theta - 120
Kappa - 120
Pi Phi - 124
SK - 154

They list each chapters total membership, ASA only has 18 and AEPhi has 114, the rest average 371 with a high of 407.

I know the University added ASA a while back hoping it would help with the average chapter size, but 18 members! they cannot possibly do formal recruitment with the rest of the chapters
Did you mean DG rather than GD????
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  #282  
Old 02-07-2023, 05:55 PM
Iota_JWH Iota_JWH is offline
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oops, yes!
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  #283  
Old 02-07-2023, 06:35 PM
Iota_JWH Iota_JWH is offline
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Univ of Georgia has posted their Fall 22 Grade report, alas, they do not list the number of NMs (it does list the NM GPA). It does list total chapter size. The average they list is 320, but two chapters are quite a bit smaller than the others. SDT has 162 and D Phi E has 160, taking these two out and averaging the rest yields an average of 337. (highest is 354)
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  #284  
Old 02-07-2023, 06:39 PM
AZ-AlphaXi AZ-AlphaXi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iota_JWH View Post
More Fall 22 Grade Reports: University of Arizona

...
I know the University added ASA a while back hoping it would help with the average chapter size, but 18 members! they cannot possibly do formal recruitment with the rest of the chapters
ASA does not have a house at Arizona and does not currently participate in formal recruitment.
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  #285  
Old 02-07-2023, 07:40 PM
Cookiez17 Cookiez17 is offline
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Adelphi University

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If I can get a bid so can you; a longer recruitment story

Last edited by Cookiez17; 02-08-2023 at 04:39 PM. Reason: Adding Numbers
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