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  #76  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:39 PM
Greek Stress Greek Stress is offline
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You know, I am just trying to better understand. I am not the type who just accepts it and lays down. She got into a sorority yes, was it the one of the ones she wanted more than others, did she feel she was left with any other choice, NO. Yes that is my point, I ache for the girls who pulled out and the girls who did not get a bid. I think it is horrible.
Don't you think there are ways for surveys to be taken by the PNM's to better educate the houses on who is coming to rush and to better match them with girls they are interviewed by? Obviously using resumes does not do it. My daughter had hundreds of hours of service work in a variety of organizations, she had recs from everyone. Sheer numbers yes, but more research and time can be taken. 11 houses in one day is ridiculous.
These girls went home and went to bed and still were completely exhaused by day 3 and 4. They can't "perform" to their best when put in that condition. If only you knew the hours of tears. You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?
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  #77  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:44 PM
wildcatfan wildcatfan is offline
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Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
If you have a suggestion as to how to match hundreds, if not over a thousand, girls with 10 or more sororities in a week's time I'd love to hear it. I don't want to sound snarky - I just honestly have yet to hear of a better way.
I agree, I dislike the system but don't have any better ideas. It reminds me of this quote:

Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried.
- Winston Churchill

Substitute "Formal recruitment" for democracy and "membership selection" for government, and it pretty much describes the situation.
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  #78  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:48 PM
Greek Stress Greek Stress is offline
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You know what, I think I will work on it.
I never meant to put down any of the mothers whose daughters did not get bids. My daughter could easily have been in that situation. As I mentioned, I am new at this blogging so patience with people would be a good idea. I was hoping to get some constructive ideas from you all but criticism seems to be all you are all willing to offer.
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  #79  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:48 PM
ugadg ugadg is offline
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Originally Posted by Greek Stress View Post
You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?
Why would you want your daughter to be associated with women who cut her for brainless, rude reasons and who are extremely wicked? And why would your daughter want to be with them?

It sounds like she has landed exactly where she should. People never believe it at the time, but these girls really do a better job then you think of picking girls like them.
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  #80  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:50 PM
MerryGPhiB MerryGPhiB is offline
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Smile From experience or older age.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greek Stress View Post
You know, I am just trying to better understand. I am not the type who just accepts it and lays down. She got into a sorority yes, was it the one of the ones she wanted more than others, did she feel she was left with any other choice, NO. Yes that is my point, I ache for the girls who pulled out and the girls who did not get a bid. I think it is horrible.
Don't you think there are ways for surveys to be taken by the PNM's to better educate the houses on who is coming to rush and to better match them with girls they are interviewed by? Obviously using resumes does not do it. My daughter had hundreds of hours of service work in a variety of organizations, she had recs from everyone. Sheer numbers yes, but more research and time can be taken. 11 houses in one day is ridiculous.
These girls went home and went to bed and still were completely exhaused by day 3 and 4. They can't "perform" to their best when put in that condition. If only you knew the hours of tears. You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?
Greek Stress- you bring up excellent points that NPC has been working on for years. I too agree there is no perfect system and what I do know is women go into recruitment thinking I only want to be in this house or this other.

Here is what I do know, many women who try a house/group most of the time end up happy. It's a bit of "what I know now that I wish I knew then" sometimes mistakes happen. And that is what also happens in life. Not to say that makes it right. I was given an incorrect bid ( this was in the days of hand matching) and it turns out it was a mistake. I was given one week to depledge and repledge the other group ( which historically was the "best" house on campus)-- what happened? I loved my pledge class and the women I got to know after rush ended and decided to stay. I have never regretted it and 30 years later they are still my dearest friends.

That is why so many women on GC encourage having an open mind. It can end up being the best years of your life- if you let it. And we can always improve hopefully, the greek system will have a survey after recruitment to evaluate the process. Then will be the perfect time for your daughter to share her thoughts.

Congratulations to your daughter and her mom who cares so much~!
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  #81  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:53 PM
GreekAlphaSoup GreekAlphaSoup is offline
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Well, I'll weigh in on this one....I agree that there should be a better way (but understand that due to numbers there may not be.) It seems to me as if relying on computers to work the numbers allows positively awesome girls to fall through the cracks. Situation I learned this week: a top girl in our community was a legacy to her mom's sorority and her sister's....two top sororities on campus, she naturally put them in her top two spots. When cut from those two legacy chapters, she got six parties from the next six spots on her list (I believe). Now....if after 3rd round, she is cut and left with only, say, 1 pref, she now has no chance to re-think or re-visit sororities 9-17? Because she "cut them"? I don't get it? Or, worse still, if she receives no bid, she cannot be "snapped" because she cut a group???? I'm so confused!

"Back in the day", didn't we get our invite list and then narrow that list down based on the number of openings? For example, if we were invited 12 places, but could pick 8, we chose our top 8. Next day, perhaps we were only invited to 6 but could choose 6, we'd take them all, right?

Is my memory fuzzy? It just feels backwards from what I can recall (granted that was many moons and margaritas ago).
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  #82  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:53 PM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greek Stress View Post
If only you knew the hours of tears. You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?
Okay, now I'm a little confused. First, we know about the hours of tears. Just check out UGADad's post - some of those tears are on our side. Don't forget - the alumnae and actives have to prepare for those 11 parties in one day, attend the parties, and then try to trim down their lists of beautiful, talented girls.

And no, I don't know of these "brainless, rude reasons". Do elaborate. I don't know to which sorority you belong, but I can assure you, without going into membership selection, that "brainless and rude" reasons wouldn't fly. "Wicked"? That's a loaded word - do you know of a single reason why your daughter was cut from a house? And when your daughter was presented with her list of houses that extended invitations to her, did the ones who cut her write rude comments on it? As she passed the houses who had cut her, did they point and laugh? Somehow, I doubt it. You must remember - just because a pnm feels a connection to a chapter does not mean that the chapter feels that connection with her. It hurts - rejection always does. But it may just be as simple as that - it doesn't mean that the chapter members are brainless, rude or wicked. They may simply have not liked your daughter as much as they liked another pnm.

Seriously, I was very sympathetic to your compassion for those who were cut - but then you started pulling out all these judgements about chapters who cut your daughter - based on what? Your chapter's experience 30 years ago? Your reading of "Pledged"? What?

I'm afraid you are coming off as more concerned about those awful chapters who cut your daughter than in the fact that the vast majority of those going through recruitment found an acceptable home.

Again, where are your suggestions for improvement?
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Last edited by SWTXBelle; 08-18-2008 at 05:56 PM.
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  #83  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:54 PM
ellebud ellebud is offline
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Dear Greek Stress:

As a mom I know the hours of stress and what ifs. As I said in my thread about my rush in the early 70's I went into a house where the girl and I had no interest in each other. Not her fault or mine...it happens. And yes, by day 3 or 4 everyone is exhausted and can say/do things that would not be to their advantage...but everyone is under the same stressful conditions.

And lest you think that I don't know...as a mother....how awful rush can be: The night before Pref my daughter (who just graduated from college and is just fine) was dropped from the house that she wanted to pledge because her Active accidently came out to her. (Told my daughter that she is a lesbian). Since she had been rushed "hard" as they put it in my day (the President/Rush Chairman/best girls and her best friend) were always coming over to say hi...I can't imagine what was said in the meeting by the Active. But it was over. And she moved on. I never said a word about what if to her...just I am so sorry. (And trust me I wanted to say more. ) And girls at this age can be brainless/rude....
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  #84  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:55 PM
Bamamom13 Bamamom13 is offline
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Greek Stress, I understand you are unhappy because your daughter did not get her first choice. As a mom, we hurt when our children hurt. But this year my daughter was on the other side for the first time and I can assure you, she is not 'wicked'. Your daughter probably got more sleep as a PNM than my daughter did as an active. I am sure she spent many hours fighting for the girls she really wanted to be new members as did all of her sisters. They are trying to do their best, and help make the best decisions for their chapters. They know how your daughter felt. They have been PNMs. They are dealing with as much stress as the PNMs. Read what GeorgiaDad said. He put it perfectly.
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  #85  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:55 PM
Greek Stress Greek Stress is offline
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Thanks for your constructive and kind words MerryGPhiB
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  #86  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:55 PM
DoctorD DoctorD is offline
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Originally Posted by Greek Stress View Post
You know, I am just trying to better understand. I am not the type who just accepts it and lays down. She got into a sorority yes, was it the one of the ones she wanted more than others, did she feel she was left with any other choice, NO. Yes that is my point, I ache for the girls who pulled out and the girls who did not get a bid. I think it is horrible.
Don't you think there are ways for surveys to be taken by the PNM's to better educate the houses on who is coming to rush and to better match them with girls they are interviewed by? Obviously using resumes does not do it. My daughter had hundreds of hours of service work in a variety of organizations, she had recs from everyone. Sheer numbers yes, but more research and time can be taken. 11 houses in one day is ridiculous.
These girls went home and went to bed and still were completely exhaused by day 3 and 4. They can't "perform" to their best when put in that condition. If only you knew the hours of tears. You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?
UGADad said it well earlier - it is hard on both sides - perhaps even harder on the other side, particularly at a school the size of UGA.

No one forgets how hard it is. And I will go out on a limb and say that every group does the best they can in this situation, and each group tries to treat each group of PNMs coming in the house the same as if it is the first party of the day.

So, with that... congrats to your daughter for receiving a bid! When it comes down to it, she can join only one sorority. What she chooses to get out of it is now up to her.

Let the celebrations commence! Milledge Avenue and Lumpkin Street will be the center of the universe for many a UGA student tonight.
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  #87  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:59 PM
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SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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Originally Posted by GreekAlphaSoup View Post
Well, I'll weigh in on this one....I agree that there should be a better way (but understand that due to numbers there may not be.) It seems to me as if relying on computers to work the numbers allows positively awesome girls to fall through the cracks. Situation I learned this week: a top girl in our community was a legacy to her mom's sorority and her sister's....two top sororities on campus, she naturally put them in her top two spots. When cut from those two legacy chapters, she got six parties from the next six spots on her list (I believe). Now....if after 3rd round, she is cut and left with only, say, 1 pref, she now has no chance to re-think or re-visit sororities 9-17? Because she "cut them"? I don't get it? Or, worse still, if she receives no bid, she cannot be "snapped" because she cut a group???? I'm so confused!

"Back in the day", didn't we get our invite list and then narrow that list down based on the number of openings? For example, if we were invited 12 places, but could pick 8, we chose our top 8. Next day, perhaps we were only invited to 6 but could choose 6, we'd take them all, right?

Is my memory fuzzy? It just feels backwards from what I can recall (granted that was many moons and margaritas ago).
Depends on the school's system. Some schools allow you to "regret with interest" - so say you have 8 invites, but can only accept 6. RWI allows you to list the other 2, and they have the option of extending you another invite in the next roung - so say the next round you can accept 4, but only have 3. You have the option of accepting an invitation to the chapters who you RWI if they wish to extend an invite to you.
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  #88  
Old 08-18-2008, 06:01 PM
MerryGPhiB MerryGPhiB is offline
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Thanks for your constructive and kind words MerryGPhiB
You are most welcome- please know we are all here to help even if sometimes we don't read it that way. It is tough on both sides, I still volunteer for Gamma Phi Beta in recruitment and know that being greek is WONDERFUL and it's not perfect. It is what we make out of it.

Great joys to you and your daughter!
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  #89  
Old 08-18-2008, 06:02 PM
Lightning Bug! Lightning Bug! is offline
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Don't you think there are ways for surveys to be taken by the PNM's to better educate the houses on who is coming to rush and to better match them with girls they are interviewed by? Obviously using resumes does not do it.
Probably...this sort of thing would take a lot of research (as to the best way to do it) and organization...I would guess that UGA Panhellenic would need to come up with a proposal for something like this, based on some solid evidence in which a similar system was tested, perhaps by researchers who study interview techniques...then UGA Panhellenic would need to confer with the nationals and with university lawyers to make sure everything was fair to all parties involved and that all the nationals agreed to it...then they'd have to figure out how to execute it...it's hard enough to match up 1300 PMNs to 180 sisters for 4 rounds of parties, just based on things like hometowns and majors, and also to ensure that the PNMs meet multiple sisters...adding in these questionnaires would require Panhellenic to sort and copy and distribute the questionnaires to the sororites, THEN the sororities would have to go through 1300-1550 questionnaires and match them up with a possible line up of sisters to take them through FOUR rounds of rush...this is a lot of organization, when they also are getting ready with decorations and songs AND just getting ready for class! So I encourage your daughter to get involved with UGA's Panhel...just don't expect this to be an easy fix!

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My daughter had hundreds of hours of service work in a variety of organizations, she had recs from everyone.
So do we all...

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Originally Posted by Greek Stress View Post
11 houses in one day is ridiculous. These girls went home and went to bed and still were completely exhaused by day 3 and 4. They can't "perform" to their best when put in that condition.
Of course not! But Panhel is working off of the premise that it's better to get it over with than to drag the whole thing out...maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but again, this isn't a quick fix!

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Originally Posted by Greek Stress View Post
If only you knew the hours of tears.
I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greek Stress View Post
You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?
Of course they can be wicked...I can tell horrible tales about sorority recruitment...and so can my mother...and so can my grandmother...this isn't a new thing. There are girls dismissed for terrible reasons...there also are girls dismissed simply because they didn't stand out...and when you are going through a quick recruitment, that is a perfectly good reason to cut someone. As I said before, I agree with you that improvements could be made to help those girls who are charming, lovely, talented, and fun but don't have friends pulling for them inside the house or don't perhaps make the best first impression, because of shyness or whatever...but it is a BIG JOB fixing problems like these, and it doesn't happen overnight...but your daughter can be part of the solution, as can YOU...you say you have experience with the Greek system from 30 years ago...are you an alumna? Can you get in touch with your headquarters and express your concerns and see if they have some sort of task force to study recruitment?

Anyway, you clearly are tired and stressed out, so I don't think there is any point in responding further...I agree with you about most of what you say, but it isn't as if a clear solution is staring us all in the face, but we're just choosing to reject it...

Oh, and many apologies 1) that you felt attacked, and 2) that you felt we didn't provide the solutions you were seeking. We don't have the answers, and we really are sorry for your stress. I hope that you are feeling better at the thought of how much fun your daughter must be having right now!

Last edited by Lightning Bug!; 08-18-2008 at 06:08 PM.
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  #90  
Old 08-18-2008, 06:14 PM
estherjb estherjb is offline
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I think one of the things that make cuts so hard is you never know why you were released and, being human, we usually assume it was something we did or didn't do. In reality it could one of any number of random and impersonal things such as the time of night your name comes up or if the girl who is pushing for you is influential enough to get you through over another member's rush crush. I've seen too many stand out girls get cut and too many "slip throughs" get in not to believe there's an element of the bizarre in the selection process.
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