Florida State bans Greek Life After Student Death

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Having the NPC/IFC start the legal ball rolling at a D1 university (and not a D2/D3 small college) sounds wise.

In terms of the Greek organizations' resources to mount a legal offense being on par with the University, I think so. If we don't aggressively defend our turf, and in this case, our right to exist, we may cede it.

[DixieBee]

Not a permanent ban but a temporary suspension.

This article includes a video from the FSU press conference yesterday:

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/new...ath/836055001/

The President and VP for Student Affairs are requiring the Greek community to work with the administration to shift the culture away from high-risk behavior. In the press conference, the VP states that chapter meetings are allowed if supervised by Stud't Affairs, and initiations can proceed if a member of nationals is in attendance. FWIW.

[clemsongirl]

It bugs me that all the news articles I've seen keep referring to this action as a "ban". Bans are permanent, suspensions are temporary. This is certainly a suspension rather than a ban, but the word ban is snappier and more sensational, I suppose.

I don't think it's fair to the multicultural and NPHC groups who had nothing to do with this action-how does telling them they can't host probates or perform community service help them learn from the behavior of a group they aren't associated with?

FWIW, I was at Clemson when a suspension of Greek Life was instituted following Tucker Hipps' death. I think it could have been a powerful educational moment for us had the university made an effort to communicate why we, as sorority members, were complicit in a system that treated pledges of IFC fraternities poorly, but no one ever had that conversation with us. There was no learning moment; instead we were simply left in the dark. I remember sisters saying "this has nothing to do with us, why are we involved?" and agreeing because I couldn't see how we fit in the bigger picture.

I hope that FSU does not miss this chance for difficult conversations with chapter leaders across all councils moving forward.

Editing to add more thoughts: how will supervision of 54 fraternities and sororities' chapter meetings work with four full-time Greek life staff members and two graduate assistants? Also, when Clemson's suspension went into effect the fraternities were told they had to initiate their new members with the supervision of national organizations. They lied and said they had, because they didn't want to initiate their new members yet, and with knowledge from the national organizations that they were doing this. Ultimately, I think a ban of this magnitude is going to damage the trust between national HQs and FSU a lot more than it will educate the members of the chapters.

[ASTalumna06]

At least ABC News used the word 'suspend' instead of 'ban'.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/f...-life-50980405

Does anyone know what the NPC/NPHC/Multi-cultural groups' reactions have been to this (if any)? I wonder if on a national level many are hesitant to speak out until this occurs on a more frequent basis. From what I can tell, most of these recent incidents have happened at NIC fraternity chapters, and I wonder if there will eventually be statements made.

I imagine they're treading lightly not only because we're talking about the death of a student, but also in case anyone points the finger back at them, even for something that occurred in the distant past.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

At least ABC News used the word 'suspend' instead of 'ban'.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/f...-life-50980405

Does anyone know what the NPC/NPHC/Multi-cultural groups' reactions have been to this (if any)? I wonder if on a national level many are hesitant to speak out until this occurs on a more frequent basis. From what I can tell, most of these recent incidents have happened at NIC fraternity chapters, and I wonder if there will eventually be statements made.

I imagine they're treading lightly not only because we're talking about the death of a student, but also in case anyone points the finger back at them, even for something that occurred in the distant past.

That made me think-we've seen tragic NPHC and MGC deaths occur, and yet no campus-wide suspensions have happened to the best of my knowledge (Baruch Pi Delta Psi, East Carolina Delta Sigma Theta come to mind). Wonder why that is.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

I don't think it's fair to the multicultural and NPHC groups who had nothing to do with this action-how does telling them they can't host probates or perform community service help them learn from the behavior of a group they aren't associated with?

They're social Greek organizations. Not including them in the suspension would be pretty blatant discrimination.

ETA: not sure why they are saying Penn State suspended Greek Life. They just moved formal rush.

If this was an off campus party at a house that is not the fraternity house, how on earth is this a Greek issue?

[GreekOne]

At Penn State, one of the sanctions moving forward will be a $90/semester/member Greek participation fee. However, the MGC and NPHC fees are only $30/semester/member. This seems discriminatory to me. If all Greek councils are to be given the same rights, all should be under the same scrutiny. The handling of these issues never seems to be universal.

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

At the end of the semester, these could be meetings where next semester officers are being elected (or even chapter presidents and vp positions if the chapter exec committee is done by yearly calendar).

THIS. My chapter's e-board positions were for the calendar year. If chapter meetings are not allowed, a chapter could be prevented from voting on its 2018 officers.

I was rather surprised to see that chapter meetings were not allowed. Formals and mixers and such, maybe, but chapter? It's chapter, not a kegger.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by GreekOne

At Penn State, one of the sanctions moving forward will be a $90/semester/member Greek participation fee. However, the MGC and NPHC fees are only $30/semester/member. This seems discriminatory to me. If all Greek councils are to be given the same rights, all should be under the same scrutiny. The handling of these issues never seems to be universal.

Groups already have fees built in to be members of IFC and Panhel. Unless they use it for something like bringing speakers to campus, I don't see how on earth the school can just charge people money for being in a certain type of organization. Where would this money go?

They're going to screw around and drive groups underground and then things will REALLY be a hot mess.

[PhilTau]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Where would this money go?

Would not really be that hard to justify. These two costs could easily eat up that $90/semester/member fee:

Insurance (assuming they can actually get it) .

Increase in Greek affairs office and legal staff to police/enforce university's hazing and alcohol policies.

[33girl]

The problem is they would have to actually hire these staff members and show they are doing absolutely nothing but working with Greek life. And if they get away with it, where does that end? Fees for intramural sports players for the extra wear and tear on the gym? Fees for students appearing in plays to cover the increased electric bills from the lighting?

It's a slippery slope.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

I don't think it's fair to the multicultural and NPHC groups who had nothing to do with this action-how does telling them they can't host probates or perform community service help them learn from the behavior of a group they aren't associated with?

I agree with this wholeheartedly, as do most Alphas I've seen chatting about this. But there's really nothing we can do. Our orgs haze, but in different ways, and we haven't solved those problems either.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Does anyone know what the NPC/NPHC/Multi-cultural groups' reactions have been to this (if any)? I wonder if on a national level many are hesitant to speak out until this occurs on a more frequent basis. From what I can tell, most of these recent incidents have happened at NIC fraternity chapters, and I wonder if there will eventually be statements made.

I imagine they're treading lightly not only because we're talking about the death of a student, but also in case anyone points the finger back at them, even for something that occurred in the distant past.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by 33girl

They're social Greek organizations. Not including them in the suspension would be pretty blatant discrimination.

Yes, we're all general fraternities and sororities, but I don't see anything wrong with a university deciding (or even dictating, really) what kinds of orgs would be subject to a mass suspension.

If Theta Nu Xi, an organization which I have literally NEVER heard of in a hazing scandal anywhere, which probably has less than 15 members, which has programming based on community service and multiculturalism, is caught up in this mass suspension, it's just not an equitable fix.

Nor is it equitable for APhiA, which doesn't have the culture which FSU's suspension is trying to fix. Our intake process isn't on the chapter level anyway.

I dunno, this just seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater at every level.

[GreekOne]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Groups already have fees built in to be members of IFC and Panhel. Unless they use it for something like bringing speakers to campus, I don't see how on earth the school can just charge people money for being in a certain type of organization. Where would this money go?

They're going to screw around and drive groups underground and then things will REALLY be a hot mess.

The Student Affairs office is justifying this "Greek Tax" saying the money collected (totaling about $1.35 M/year) is to pay for staff to monitor social events. The supposed staff, which has not been hired, is to be 13 people. That is $100K/year to check on Greek social events. And since each organization is only permitted 10 socials/semester, that is an awful lot of $ for checking on roughly 400 parties in total. Doing the math, it comes to $3375/party. You could hire an entire security force for that. Something seems off to me.

Anyone affiliated with an NPC or IFC chapter will have this added to their Bursar bills so no getting around it. As I said, they are only charging the MGC and NPHC members $30/semester. I guess the university does not intend to monitor their social functions as aggressively.

[Sciencewoman]

And the figure of 400 social functions is probably an overestimate, because a number of these functions will be mixers held between 2 groups and will be a "two-fer," counting against both groups' limt of 10.

[33girl]

That dog won't hunt.

I personally think the "staff" is going to end up being people who will drink as much if not more than the people they are "monitoring." I mean who the hell wants to spend their time standing around watching a party while everyone throws hate vibes at you? Even if you are getting paid to do it?