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  #1  
Old 08-16-2006, 05:17 AM
James James is offline
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Sorority Shopping?

I thought I would just write it out, because to a certain extent the idea of sorority shopping is what is causing a lot of the . . conflict . . . in this forum.

Even though no one seems to want to just come out and say it.

My understanding, in a general way, is that AI in many groups is offered to people who have some direct link to the organization.

In those cases the people are generally asked by the organization to join. So they don't really need advice from greekchat. They are alredy in contact with the organization.

I am also mindful of unusual situations like blueangel's where she pledged a group, but was unable to finish. Greekchat made her aware that it was possible to still affiliate. However, she had an existing link with an organization, she just needed to know her options and make contact with the right people.

The other group of people seeking AI seems to be those that wish to just join an NPC organization.

They may have some preferences, but they are open to membership in just about any group that offers (in order of preference of course), and end up "shopping" for a sorority . . . contacting multiple groups, often simultaneously, to see who will accept them.

A lot of the current arguments seem to be based on this last group. That appears to be what motivates people to argue how information is presented, to prevent or discourage sorority shopping.

Because after all, for people with direct links to a group, people that have been asked to join, restricting the information doesn't matter, they are already in contact.

So the big question is: Do you think that using GC as a a market to shop for a sorority, or even sorority shopping in general, is a good or bad thing?

What should be done if anything about it?

Or is it something that doesn't matter at all?
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  #2  
Old 08-16-2006, 07:18 AM
MBurden MBurden is offline
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If you would review the message boards, and you clearly haven't, those seeking to join a sorority through AI don't "shop" on these boards...there is an unwritten rule that you don't mention the name of the sorority that you are seeking to join until AFTER you have been initiated. This is for alot of reasons, mainly, because it's an individual choice and isn't anyone else's business.

The other purpose of the board is to let people know that the process of AI exists and you are incorrectly ASSUMING that the only people that get to join through AI are those that are already affiliated with the organization in some way, and this is simply not true all of the time.

When I was in college, I couldn't tell you the number of women that pledged sororities, then complained weekly about all of the "work" that it took and the "hassle" of attending functions, doing required volunteer work, etc. Then when they graduate, they want something to put on their resume, and they never do anything with their alumni again.

I would wager that this is the MAJORITY of college-joiners, as Sorority Alumni organizations are often begging for others in their sorority to assist with volunteer efforts for college rushes, advisement, etc.

AI isn't easy, and it isn't a picnic...if we are permitted to join a sorority through AI, we don't have the connection that many of our new sisters will have since their freshman or sophomore years of college. It's the longest "rush" possible and can take months or years to complete.

I have been looking at only two sororities for AI...these are the SAME TWO that I would have joined in college.

If I am choosen to join through AI I don't want a badge in my jewelry drawer, or a couple of cute pictures on my wall. I want to be an ACTIVE member and not a wallflower.

Things tend to be valued more for those that have to work harder to earn it, and AI is work, it's alot of waiting, alot of hoping, and it doesn't work out for all of us.

The choice is ultimately up to the local chapter....if they don't want somoene to join AI, then they are completely within their rights not to.

Who are you to say the process should be stopped?
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  #3  
Old 08-16-2006, 07:30 AM
AlphaFrog AlphaFrog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBurden
When I was in college, I couldn't tell you the number of women that pledged sororities, then complained weekly about all of the "work" that it took and the "hassle" of attending functions, doing required volunteer work, etc. Then when they graduate, they want something to put on their resume, and they never do anything with their alumni again.

I would wager that this is the MAJORITY of college-joiners, as Sorority Alumni organizations are often begging for others in their sorority to assist with volunteer efforts for college rushes, advisement, etc.

I think you'd lose that bet. Majorly. How insulting to say that collegians only join for something to put on our resume. Habitat for Humanity would look better on a resume then Alpha Sigma Alpha, and would have taken up WAY less time, but that's not what I (and MOST NPC women) were looking for.

THIS ATTITUDE IS EXACTLY WHY THOSE OF US WHO JOINED IN COLLEGE GET PISSED AT AIs.

I am generally not against AI, except for when ya'll make statements like this. And it really sounds like sour grapes.

AND...since we're talking about NPC Groups... A-L-U-M-N-A-E
There's only ONE NPC that can claim an Alumni.
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  #4  
Old 08-16-2006, 07:59 AM
Dionysus Dionysus is offline
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People shop for houses, jobs, and even SOs. Why would shopping for GLOs be any different? The reasons presented so far, aren't good enough to discourage some people from sorority shopping.
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  #5  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:07 AM
MBurden MBurden is offline
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Exclamation AlphaFrog......

No, I wouldn't lose the bet. I was the only non-Greek among a large circle of friends that I had at the two colleges that I attended...and not a single one of them participates with their sorority in any way, and in my 20 year working career, I have met countless individuals that joined in college, and again, didn't participate after graduation in any way....and I live in the SOUTH! I have never met ONE. Not ONE.

I didn't join in college because I had to pay my own way through and wanted to minimize my loans and I cut every corner I could...if it didn't directly impact my degree, I skipped the expense. This pretty much left food, clothing and shelter as my expenses and I had very little to pay back when I graduated and was student loan debt-free after only 4 years of graduation.

Why do you ASSUME that those of us that didn't join in college know nothing about the Greek system? That we have no idea of the trials and tribulations...do you think the information is THAT secretive?

Yeah! You better believe alot of the sorority members complained all through college about the things they had to do....I lived in a dorm for 3 years and they had their meetings on Monday evenings and would get in large groups while they were getting ready...standing between an open doorway and an echoing hall and you could hear them complain all the way down the hall of how they 'couldn't stand' to make another trip to a nursing home or 'didn't have time' to 'fool' with tutoring at a local elementary school with at-risk kids.

I had a roommate that SLASHED HER WRISTS in the dorm bathroom because she was formally kicked out of her sorority because of a nasty rumor about something she supposedly did that was started by her boyfrriend's ex-fiance...the Greek system at the school was so powerful that she wanted to be dead rather than to continue classes with everyone knowing she had been kicked out. Thank God she survived.

I had another close friend that only took classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays while her mother was undergoing Chemotherapy for breast cancer and submitted a formal request to the Sorority to miss all of the weekly meetings on Mondays so she could be with her mother for her treatments (she had no father and her mother was single)...you know what they told her? "You need to re-assess your priorities!" She did...by de-activating. If they couldn't support her while her mother was undergoing life-saving procedures, in her mind, she didn't need them.

Now, DO I JUDGE ALL SORORITIES BASED ON WHAT I HAVE SEEN HAPPEN TO A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS? Nope, I render these as isolated incidents with people I just happen to know....I don't know where you live or where you go to school, but around here, WHAT I SAID IN MY PREVIOUS POST IS 100% TRUE AND I HAVE DISCUSSED IT WITH A LOCAL SORORITY I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH AND SHE HAS MENTIONED ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS DURING OUR CONVERSATIONS HOW THERE NEVER SEEMS TO BE ENOUGH HELP WITH THE SORORITY AFTER EVERYONE GRADUATES!

Please don't accept AI's into your organization if you cannot treat them with the same respect and dignity as your other members. If you harbor this kind of resentment, you would be doing them a favor.
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  #6  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:08 AM
kddani kddani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFrog
I think you'd lose that bet. Majorly. How insulting to say that collegians only join for something to put on our resume. Habitat for Humanity would look better on a resume then Alpha Sigma Alpha, and would have taken up WAY less time, but that's not what I (and MOST NPC women) were looking for.

THIS ATTITUDE IS EXACTLY WHY THOSE OF US WHO JOINED IN COLLEGE GET PISSED AT AIs.

I am generally not against AI, except for when ya'll make statements like this. And it really sounds like sour grapes.

AND...since we're talking about NPC Groups... A-L-U-M-N-A-E
There's only ONE NPC that can claim an Alumni.
I have to agree with a lot of this. I guess I can understand some of the PNAM's feeling attacked, but I have seen a lot of statements by PNAM's (and one intitiated AI member) that have been very disparaging towards collegians and alumnae members of sororities. Why on earth would you insult a group of people that you are trying to join?
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  #7  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:09 AM
kddani kddani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBurden
No, I wouldn't lose the bet. I was the only non-Greek among a large circle of friends that I had at the two colleges that I attended...and not a single one of them participates with their sorority in any way, and in my 20 year working career, I have met countless individuals that joined in college, and again, didn't participate after graduation in any way....and I live in the SOUTH! I have never met ONE. Not ONE.

I didn't join in college because I had to pay my own way through and wanted to minimize my loans and I cut every corner I could...if it didn't directly impact my degree, I skipped the expense. This pretty much left food, clothing and shelter as my expenses and I had very little to pay back when I graduated and was student loan debt-free after only 4 years of graduation.

Why do you ASSUME that those of us that didn't join in college know nothing about the Greek system? That we have no idea of the trials and tribulations...do you think the information is THAT secretive?

Yeah! You better believe alot of the sorority members complained all through college about the things they had to do....I lived in a dorm for 3 years and they had their meetings on Monday evenings and would get in large groups while they were getting ready...standing between an open doorway and an echoing hall and you could hear them complain all the way down the hall of how they 'couldn't stand' to make another trip to a nursing home or 'didn't have time' to 'fool' with tutoring at a local elementary school with at-risk kids.

I had a roommate that SLASHED HER WRISTS in the dorm bathroom because she was formally kicked out of her sorority because of a nasty rumor about something she supposedly did that was started by her boyfrriend's ex-fiance...the Greek system at the school was so powerful that she wanted to be dead rather than to continue classes with everyone knowing she had been kicked out. Thank God she survived.

I had another close friend that only took classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays while her mother was undergoing Chemotherapy for breast cancer and submitted a formal request to the Sorority to miss all of the weekly meetings on Mondays so she could be with her mother for her treatments (she had no father and her mother was single)...you know what they told her? "You need to re-assess your priorities!" She did...by de-activating. If they couldn't support her while her mother was undergoing life-saving procedures, in her mind, she didn't need them.

Now, DO I JUDGE ALL SORORITIES BASED ON WHAT I HAVE SEEN HAPPEN TO A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS? Nope, I render these as isolated incidents with people I just happen to know....I don't know where you live or where you go to school, but around here, WHAT I SAID IN MY PREVIOUS POST IS 100% TRUE AND I HAVE DISCUSSED IT WITH A LOCAL SORORITY I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH AND SHE HAS MENTIONED ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS DURING OUR CONVERSATIONS HOW THERE NEVER SEEMS TO BE ENOUGH HELP WITH THE SORORITY AFTER EVERYONE GRADUATES!

Please don't accept AI's into your organization if you cannot treat them with the same respect and dignity as your other members. If you harbor this kind of resentment, you would be doing them a favor.
Why do you want to join a sorority if you think so poorly of them, then?
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  #8  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:15 AM
MBurden MBurden is offline
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Wink ..almost forgot

About the resume thing that you said wasn't true? That someone wouldn't join because of that?

It was a SELLING POINT during Rush at my college in addition to being able to get recruited for jobs after graduation by previous members and having access to a well-stocked test-bank for professors that used the same exam year after year.
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  #9  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:20 AM
SydneyK SydneyK is offline
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MBurden, I'm trying to find the nicest way to say this...

To accuse James of not having reviewed the board adequately is uncalled for. It is obvious to me, by his post, that he has in fact reviewed the board, and has narrowed the question to a more manageable one. Instead of trying to address everything about AI, he has honed his question on the one aspect of it that, through his observations, is causing most of the commotion.

And, with respect to your attitude towards NPC alumnae, it seems as if you're the one harboring resentment, not the collegiate-initiated alumnae. So, as for your last comment, I feel like saying to you, "If you can't treat collegiate-initiated alumnae with the same respect and dignity as the AI members, then don't join. They certainly don't need your negativity."
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  #10  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:22 AM
kddani kddani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SydneyK
And, with respect to your attitude towards NPC alumnae, it seems as if you're the one harboring resentment, not the collegiate-initiated alumnae. So, as for your last comment, I feel like saying to you, "If you can't treat collegiate-initiated alumnae with the same respect and dignity as the AI members, then don't join. They certainly don't need your negativity."
I would agree. Disparaging remarks about sisters is usually cause for discipline in many sororities. It certainly isn't going to help you get in.
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Old 08-16-2006, 08:22 AM
MBurden MBurden is offline
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You clearly didn't read my post....one of the reasons the local sorority is interested in me for possible AI (and I should find out within the next couple of weeks) is because I plan to be an active participant and not go through the process, pay my dues, and no one ever hears from me again.

My post only stated my personal experience with the geographical area that I live in and studied in.
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  #12  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:23 AM
SydneyK SydneyK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBurden
It was a SELLING POINT during Rush at my college in addition to being able to get recruited for jobs after graduation by previous members and having access to a well-stocked test-bank for professors that used the same exam year after year.
Just because something is a selling point doesn't mean that's the only attractive aspect. Sure, resume-building experience is a selling point of a sorority, but that's not the reason most women join. Heck, the fact that my car is silver was a selling point, but that doesn't mean that I didn't value the good engine, four wheels, airbags, etc. I didn't buy my car because it was silver, much like I didn't join my sorority because it would help build my resume.
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:24 AM
AlphaFrog AlphaFrog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBurden
No, I wouldn't lose the bet. I was the only non-Greek among a large circle of friends that I had at the two colleges that I attended...and not a single one of them participates with their sorority in any way, and in my 20 year working career, I have met countless individuals that joined in college, and again, didn't participate after graduation in any way....and I live in the SOUTH! I have never met ONE. Not ONE.
Just because they don't participate now does not mean that they joined for no other reason then something for their resume, as you stated in your previous post. There is a ton to be gained from the college experience that has nothing to do with resume padding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBurden
I didn't join in college because I had to pay my own way through and wanted to minimize my loans and I cut every corner I could...if it didn't directly impact my degree, I skipped the expense. This pretty much left food, clothing and shelter as my expenses and I had very little to pay back when I graduated and was student loan debt-free after only 4 years of graduation.
Good for you. You made your choice. I'm still paying off my college, but I'm an Alpha Sigma Alpha. I made my choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBurden
Why do you ASSUME that those of us that didn't join in college know nothing about the Greek system? That we have no idea of the trials and tribulations...do you think the information is THAT secretive?

Yeah! You better believe alot of the sorority members complained all through college about the things they had to do....I lived in a dorm for 3 years and they had their meetings on Monday evenings and would get in large groups while they were getting ready...standing between an open doorway and an echoing hall and you could hear them complain all the way down the hall of how they 'couldn't stand' to make another trip to a nursing home or 'didn't have time' to 'fool' with tutoring at a local elementary school with at-risk kids.
Who said you knew nothing about the Greek system?? I sure didn't. And yes, at times, all the commitments do get to be a pain, but they're still worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBurden
I had a roommate that SLASHED HER WRISTS in the dorm bathroom because she was formally kicked out of her sorority because of a nasty rumor about something she supposedly did that was started by her boyfrriend's ex-fiance...the Greek system at the school was so powerful that she wanted to be dead rather than to continue classes with everyone knowing she had been kicked out. Thank God she survived.
This girl sounds like she had personal issues that are unrelated to Greek life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MBurden
Now, DO I JUDGE ALL SORORITIES BASED ON WHAT I HAVE SEEN HAPPEN TO A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS? Nope, I render these as isolated incidents with people I just happen to know....I don't know where you live or where you go to school, but around here, WHAT I SAID IN MY PREVIOUS POST IS 100% TRUE AND I HAVE DISCUSSED IT WITH A LOCAL SORORITY I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH AND SHE HAS MENTIONED ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS DURING OUR CONVERSATIONS HOW THERE NEVER SEEMS TO BE ENOUGH HELP WITH THE SORORITY AFTER EVERYONE GRADUATES!

Please don't accept AI's into your organization if you cannot treat them with the same respect and dignity as your other members. If you harbor this kind of resentment, you would be doing them a favor.

I don't have a problem with AIs. I have a problem with AIs WITH YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS UNDERGRADS. If you harbor this kind of resentment toward undergrads, why do you want to be a part of the organization??
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:26 AM
kddani kddani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SydneyK
Just because something is a selling point doesn't mean that's the only attractive aspect. Sure, resume-building experience is a selling point of a sorority, but that's not the reason most women join. Heck, the fact that my car is silver was a selling point, but that doesn't mean that I didn't value the good engine, four wheels, airbags, etc. I didn't buy my car because it was silver, much like I didn't join my sorority because it would help build my resume.

Also, if you have something on your resume and can't talk about or and what you learned from it, then it's useless. I have a huge amount of talking points about what being a sorority taught me, including how to manage people, handling a budget for a 65 member organization, etc.
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Old 08-16-2006, 08:28 AM
MBurden MBurden is offline
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I'm not trying to put on a "show" for someone or changing my opinion or attutude to 'get in'...I guess the difference is I am approaching AI from an ADULT perspective and not from a collegiate perspective.

I am not concerned in any way about where I am in the process...if it's a fit, then it will be a fit, if it's not a fit, then it was never meant to be.

I don't sit up awake at night worrying about it.
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