NPC expansion

[Kevin]

Originally posted by texas*princess
I mentioned the system "seems" to be somewhat similar to a supply/demand schedule. I did not say it "Was". I also mentioned that a new group might also spark more interest in the overall greek system and perhaps increase recruitment numbers in my original post.

I have to disagree when you say groups that suffer are suffering "because of their own faults". I just feel that is a over-generalization. If a school is small and the interest in greek life just isn't there, that is not always the fault of the chapters that reside on the campus that they have low or unstable numbers.

When I attended a SMALL college, they had amazing groups, and they didn't have many members. I personally don't feel it was their fault they were suffering in numbers - I know personally they advertised so much to get more men & women interested in the greek life that existed on the campus. Not every school is meant to be in the "Top Ten Greek Schools" with all 26 NPC sororities and all the NIC fraternities, so when a chapter has small numbers, it may not always be "their fault".. but that's just the way I see it coming from an extremely small greek school.

I'd say that it is sometimes true that it's not their fault, but not always. And more often than not I'd say that there is something that they can and should change to fix themselves.

I actually know of a particular system where there are 4 NPC groups. 2 are above quota, can't even do Rush, another is almost there. The 4th group? They're about half of quota.

Because of group #4 Panhel will not expand until they meet quota. Is this fair to the women that ultimately decide not to join after going through rush because they were not happy with all the groups that were able to extend bids?

It was not my intention to say that you were wrong. It was my intention to say that the system is not always right.

[texas*princess]

Yep, I can see your point and I think you're absolutely right.. sometimes the existing groups aren't for everyone, and they may feel they need something new or different somehow, and sometimes that is what sparks a group to want to form another group to try to reach their goal.

In a way, it's hard on everyone when the campus isn't "open" for expansion - not only for the new group that wants to form, but also for the GLO's that are already there because they may have some difficulties with numbers or whatever else may be the case. I think situations like this are really hard when you are trying to not "step on anyone's toes".

[aopinthesky]

>>>Because of group #4 Panhel will not expand until they meet quota<<<

KTSNAKE,
This is because that is the philosophy of NPC. They do not add houses at the expense of others. It is not enough that women going through recruitment are not getting bid to the house that they want, but whether they are getting bid at all.
I will agree with you that sometimes a small group CAN do things to increase their numbers, but you also need to consider the possibility that it may be that the numbers are not there.
Not liking what exists is NOT a reason for NPC to expand. I am getting the idea from you that IFC expands this way, but I assure you that NPC will not.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by aopinthesky
>>>Because of group #4 Panhel will not expand until they meet quota<<<

KTSNAKE,
This is because that is the philosophy of NPC. They do not add houses at the expense of others. It is not enough that women going through recruitment are not getting bid to the house that they want, but whether they are getting bid at all.
I will agree with you that sometimes a small group CAN do things to increase their numbers, but you also need to consider the possibility that it may be that the numbers are not there.
Not liking what exists is NOT a reason for NPC to expand. I am getting the idea from you that IFC expands this way, but I assure you that NPC will not.

Actually, each time on this campus we've added another organization no other organization's numbers were really hurt at all. If nothing else more quality men are going through rush.

I actually know that the #'s *are* there in this circumstance. It's just that they are currently being held back. Give 'em a few years I guess

Not saying that NPC is wrong in its philosphy.. just that it may not always be the best for the most people.

[aopinthesky]

>>>Actually, each time on this campus we've added another organization no other organization's numbers were really hurt at all. If nothing else more quality men are going through rush<<<


KTSNAKE,
Again, you are talking about MEN going through rush. At the risk of sounding sexist (and I am not) I have to say once more that you just cannot compare the IFC system to NPC. What works for one will not work for the other. Since IFC does not regulate a chapter total for the fraternities on a campus, and there is no quota for recruitment, it doesn't matter as much if a new group is formed.
For sororities, since recruitment is done very formally (hence the name FORMAL recruitment) they do experience a drop in quota and total if a new group comes to campus while one or more groups are struggling - and it does penalize the less strong. It does not serve to spark interest in the greek system as you have pointed out happened when new fraternities came to your school, it only dilutes the system that is in place for sororities to procure new members.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by aopinthesky
>>>Actually, each time on this campus we've added another organization no other organization's numbers were really hurt at all. If nothing else more quality men are going through rush<<<


KTSNAKE,
Again, you are talking about MEN going through rush. At the risk of sounding sexist (and I am not) I have to say once more that you just cannot compare the IFC system to NPC. What works for one will not work for the other. Since IFC does not regulate a chapter total for the fraternities on a campus, and there is no quota for recruitment, it doesn't matter as much if a new group is formed.
For sororities, since recruitment is done very formally (hence the name FORMAL recruitment) they do experience a drop in quota and total if a new group comes to campus while one or more groups are struggling - and it does penalize the less strong. It does not serve to spark interest in the greek system as you have pointed out happened when new fraternities came to your school, it only dilutes the system that is in place for sororities to procure new members.

I'm not saying it's a bad system. Just that I don't understand why it puts the continued existance of a defective group ahead of the interest of individuals who would do well with the system and help it to grow. I can see how it benefits the GROUP but not the individual.

And I still don't buy into the fact that adding a group would hurt someone unless there was something fundamentally wrong and different about the chapter that was being hurt by it. At that point in my opinion it's forcing either reform or the dropping of dead weight.

I can understand why they do it but I simply don't agree that it's the best way I feel I'm entitled to my own stupid opinons.

[aopinthesky]

>>>I feel I'm entitled to my own stupid opinons<<<

You are, that's the great thing about an open forum. You just can't ever win the debate when you are comparing IFC and NPC recruitment practices, because they can't be compared.

[GeekyPenguin]

You know, I wish we had a PC here still, after TPA left we dropped formal rush and I really think my house would do much better at it than the locals...and Little E, our greek systems sound somewhat similar, so if you ever want to talk...

[Crescent]

Lil E
The first thing you should do is contact AST's NPC delegation and get their advice and help. Sometimes the NPC delegates can talk things over at their level and clear up the confusion. In our organization, our NPC delegation wants to know ASAP if the campus is talking about extension. AST's NPC delegate is there to help you.
Best of luck to you and your chapter.

[idigphisig]

ktsnake, i think i see what you're saying about putting the "group" over the individual -- however, it would not be living up to our panhellenic standards to just let a group die out in favor of letting individuals pick up and start a new one, because usually the groups that aren't doing well in rush still have an amazing sisterhood that many women would be able to thrive in.

when a chapter dies out, it's more than just the "group" that goes away, it's ALL of the INDIVIDUALS who were working hard to save that chapter - the national representatives, the alumnae, the other panhellenic groups, and especially the sisters who not only have put time, energy, and heart into their chapter, but who will no longer be able to be in a sorority because once you've been initiated, you are bound to that group forever.

i think it's a good philosophy on the part of the NPC to encourage girls who didnt get bids to the house they might have originally wanted to go for the house they might not have wanted, because it strengthens the greek system as a whole. if panhel just let every weak chapter close and kept opening new ones, there would be no sense of continuity or tradition or support in the community. when my chapter colonized on campus, AGD's alpha chapter closed the next semester. they had been struggling for a few years, i think, but a lot of us felt guilty and as if we had a part in it. i can see it from both perspectives, but i do think in general its unfair to bring a new group to a campus where houses are struggling.

just my two cents.

[aopinthesky]

Very well said!

[33girl]

Meg, I would agree...if the NPC and its member groups would get rid of quota/total rules, and the rules that say housing etc must be fairly equal for all groups. However, I think piggies will be flying befoe that happens.

[PsychTau]

I think one overlooked part of this is the fact that males and females make judgements differently. Females tend to go more on outward appearances to make snap decisions about groups. Girls who don't do their homework about sororities in general or who don't think long, hard, and deep about what they want out of Greek Life will see the small, struggling chapter and think "I don't want to be associated with that. . .what will everyone think?"

Guys, on the other hand, tend to think "hey, these 5 guys are cool, I like them a lot. I could be their brother, no prob. We'd have a great time."

That's why bringing a new sorority on campus when another one is struggling doesn't always have the same outcome as bringing a new fraternity on campus. It also depends on the attitude/atmosphere of the campus.

(NOTICE THAT THE ABOVE STATEMENTS ARE NOT ABSOLUTES. . .JUST PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS. thank you. )

[Sweetums]

The University of British Columbia will be inviting two sororities to enter the campus' Panhellenic system. This is such a great thing! Right now, campus total is at 50, and five of the seven sororities are at or above total, while two more have about 30 girls each. Inviting two new sororities on campus will ensure that chapters do not get too huge - I myself would rather have 50, not 80, sisters . . . I can't wait to find out who Panhell selects to come to campus!

[texas*princess]

I was just wondering what factors contribute to the campus NPC wanting to expand?

How do they select which groups may present?

Who makes the final decisions in the expansion?