Go Back Forums > Recruitment

Recruitment General discussion about recruitment.

Register Now for FREE!
Join, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 320,582
Threads: 115,146
Posts: 2,181,744
Welcome to our newest member, AliceGaddi
» Online Users: 101
0 members and 101 guests
No Members online
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2002, 04:21 PM
h2oot h2oot is offline
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Southwest
Posts: 325
Not Making Quota

Too much fuss is made over a chapter not making quota. There are all kinds of reasons why a chapter does not make quota (especially if its only off 1 out of 50) that has nothing to do with chapter strength, or even how well a particular rush went.

I know our chapter has a much higher retention rate than many others on campus and if you take into account the large number of affiliate it's even higher. When numbers are high there's a tendancy to be more selective and go head-to-head for the PNMs who are being highly sought by other sororities. If you fall short in quota you still may have gotten most of those you really wanted and can easily make up the numbers next year.

This and other scenarios aren't generally known to those outside the house, so it's really unfair to judge a situation when much remains unknown.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 04:24 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 3,727
Send a message via AIM to shadokat Send a message via Yahoo to shadokat
This may be true in some situations, but I've often times seen chapters who have "big chapter" mentality. They think because they are so large, that not hitting quota one semester is ok. And then the next semester they miss by 3, and then 5, and before you know it, they're down by 20, and it's ugly. Just remember, to those with big chapter mentality, the day may and probably will come when you struggle with quota, so don't think it can't happen to you!

Just .02 from the peanut gallery
Be a leader; Be Yourself; Be DPhiE - Esse Quam Videri
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 04:37 PM
h2oot h2oot is offline
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Southwest
Posts: 325
My main point was that not making quota does not necessarily mean a house had a bad rush or is in trouble. Also, I've seen posts which alude that making quota is THE yardstick for measuring the success of rush.

Obviously, if a chapter misses quota 4 or 5 years in a row, then they need to make some changes in their approach to rush.

Also, I'm disappointed when I read posts that convey a sense of "less than" when another house misses quota.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 04:44 PM
Jhawkalum Jhawkalum is offline
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 137
I think Shadokat is right... it's a very slippery slope. I just wrote to someone about how easy it is for chapters to make a 180' switch in a matter of a year (good or bad).

For chapters with large houses, missing quota by a large margin can have serious implications -- like having to raise dues for the mortgage, etc.. Not only do collegians have to take it seriously, but Alumnae need to take the issue seriously too and try to figure out how they can support their chapters when the tides turn.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 04:46 PM
FuzzieAlum FuzzieAlum is offline
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Nashville
Posts: 1,762
Quota is a funny thing. ABC and DEF both makes quota, but ABC couldn't have gotten another girl if it was higher, whereas 20 more women would have clamored for DEF. Yet they can both brag, "We got quota." And chapter GHI that missed it by one, oh no! they didn't get it, what will they ever do?

Whether a chapter generally makes quota is a yardstick that measures how good a chapter is at formal rush. That's about all it measures, though. And the quality of those girls can vary so much. I have been very surprised to see the low retention rates some chapters have (and expect). If you get quota but half those girls or more are gone by senior year, you're not much better off than if you got half quota in the first place. Another chapter that got just under quota may keep 95% of their pledges - they're doing much better.

But when formal rush comes along, "making quota" is the quickest shorthand for "did we do well?"
Alpha Xi Delta
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 04:47 PM
Angels&Arrows Angels&Arrows is offline
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 647
Send a message via AIM to Angels&Arrows
Re: Not Making Quota

h2oot, I agree with most of what you said. Here goes my Southern, BUT... I think the issue that is in a lot of peoples minds (at least mine)... Is not oh they did not make quota. It is... wow... why are so many chapters, on traditionally strong Greek Campuses, that traditionally make quota... not making it all of the sudden. It seems in the last two years of rush, this is becoming a pattern. Why is it happening now? Why to so many campuses? At UGa (5/14 chapters made quota, I know a few more snapped to quota)... at Ole Miss (6/9)... Last year Penn State 14/21, but in previous years 16-18/21 made quota. At FSU last year it was Pi Phi, this year Theta. It seems at a few campuses on the West Coast that traditionally have more chapters making quota... not as many meet quota.

By no means do I think that a chapter like ABC at Ole Miss or even LSU that has 210 members and did make quota is weak or bad, or even had a bad rush... I am just curious why this is happening to so soo many similar chapters across the nation.

I know there is a better way of asking my question/making my statement. And if anyone understands what I am saying and can ask/say it better.. please do... I would love to hear from people actively involved with recruitment as an office or advisor!!! Barbara? Lauradev? anyone!!!

Last edited by Angels&Arrows; 10-02-2002 at 05:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 05:14 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,368
As I have said before, for me it is more about retention. What is the point of making quota by hook or by crook, just to say "we made quota" and then having half those girls drop out before initiation because the sorority isn't what they were promised during rush? On the other side of the coin, you can have the sorority who rarely makes quota through formal, but open bids up to total and has a 95-100% initiation rate. I wish that the Greek world would learn to look at long term success instead of short term.

I do agree with what A&As is saying though - on a campus where there is NO shortage of rushees, why are so few groups making quota? That's not a rip on the groups, it's a rip on the system, because obviously you have both parts of the puzzle but somehow they are not fitting together. If it is an issue of rushees saying "I want XYZ or nothing" then the system as a whole has to be marketed differently.
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 05:14 PM
xo_kathy xo_kathy is offline
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 2,170
yes, yes, yes, and yes.

I really liked the points FuzzieAlum made. And I think that is what h2oot was getting at. (She is quite familiar with southern rush, too, I think?!) I think she was just saying we shouldn't all get so hung up on quota, because a chapter could have not made it by 1 or 50, most of the time we do not clarify. Or a chapter could have taken quota "plus 10!!!" Well, then it wasn't close enough to total in the first place so what does that say? etc. etc. etc.

(However, I do think we should be worrying when many houses aren't making quota. But that is another issue.)

So, be happy when your group does make quota, but don't assume a chapter is failing because it didn't.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 05:17 PM
LeslieAGD LeslieAGD is offline
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,867
Send a message via AIM to LeslieAGD
It's cliche maybe but chapters that don't make quota should always remember:
"Quality over Quantity"
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 05:26 PM
FuzzieAlum FuzzieAlum is offline
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Nashville
Posts: 1,762
The number of girls rushing is cyclical ... it depends on the political and social currents. That's why so many chapters closed in the 1960s; there were generally not enough rushees to sustain as many chapters as were on most campuses.

But quota is based on the number of girls rushing near the end of rush, so if half as many girls rush as usual, quota is half as much, and in theory most chapters should still make quota - although the entire system will suffer. Any of several things could be happening to make many chapters fall short of quota:

1) Getting into the "right" chapter is becoming more important; girls will not pledge at all rather than pledge what is a "lesser" sorority in their mind.
2) Girls who aren't traditionally considered good rush candidates are rushing. However, you think they'd get cut early enough on that it wouldn't affect quota.
3) Sororities are cutting too hard, harder than their return rates say they should.
4) Girls are getting turned off by Greek life altogether late in the rush process and not bidding or skipping preference.
5) Several chapters went psycho over the summer after being kidnapped by aliens and were suddenly undesirable.

If it's 3, it's easy to fix. I doubt 4 is happening without at least a little 1 happening, too. (And I really doubt aliens are roaming campus!)

Quota going down all over the country suggests the cyclical popularity of sororities is going down again. Chapters being less likely to make quota means something is broken _during_ the rush process.
Alpha Xi Delta
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 06:39 PM
carnation carnation is offline
Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 12,905
Originally posted by 33girl

I do agree with what A&As is saying though - on a campus where there is NO shortage of rushees, why are so few groups making quota? That's not a rip on the groups, it's a rip on the system, because obviously you have both parts of the puzzle but somehow they are not fitting together. If it is an issue of rushees saying "I want XYZ or nothing" then the system as a whole has to be marketed differently.

33, that's the puzzle. Especially in the South, rushee numbers are soaring!

I know that part of it is due to rushees who will only consider, say, 2 of 15 sororities. I know maybe 15 college freshmen who dropped out of rush because they didn't like their returns yet the truth was they'd only been cut by 1 or 2 chapters.

The other part seems to be a combination of the newest release figures and overly heavy cutting of PNMs. There are some chapters who are required to cut around 75% of their PNMs after second parties. That can screw up the chapter if many rushees then cut them after third parties. I've heard of at least 3 big-deal sororities on various campuses who cut way more girls than they were required to early on and then were heavily cut by PNMs later on and none of them got anywhere close to quota...whereas any other year, the groups could've taken 20 over quota!

I still feel like the release figures are too harsh. Sororities are having to make decisions too early and worse, if a girl is cut early on by the majority of the sororities, she's likely to drop out of rush.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 06:58 PM
XOMichelle XOMichelle is offline
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 1,516
In response to Fuzzie Alum, I see (at least on my campus) a decrease in interest in Greek life along with a lot of sorority number one mentality. I have met about 5 girls a year (implying the real number is higher) that go through rush to be a member of the one sorority that they think is best on campus (some consider two-- but they hardly consider all 5). Many girls drop out of rush when they decide it's not for them, or when they get cut by the sorority they wanted to rush.

Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 10:00 PM
DZetaBiotch DZetaBiotch is offline
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 41
I agree with the fuss over quota. One of the houses on our campus- no, two- which are traditionally known as two of the top houses, that always make quota, have a problem with keeping their pledges. One doesn't have a lot of house unity and by consequence they have the highest deactivation rate on campus. The other hazes its pledges so badly that last year many of them depledged en masse before initiation.

I don't think it's a big deal if a house is a couple girls under quota. The only time there should be any discussion is if a house significantly fails to make quota. I think it's much more impressive when a house manages to do really well during informal rush. During formal rush, a girl can easily be dazzled with cheers and songs and cute clothes and dance routines and skits- but during informal you have to impress the girl by just being yourself.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 10:25 PM
breathesgelatin breathesgelatin is offline
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,142
Send a message via ICQ to breathesgelatin Send a message via AIM to breathesgelatin Send a message via MSN to breathesgelatin Send a message via Yahoo to breathesgelatin
quota does matter

due to basically fraternity crap-talking (not even from all frat chapters), my sorority has struggled to make quota in the past. the campus stereotype of us is of a very diverse group of intellectual women. we suffer because guys tell freshmen we do not go out to parties. (which is SO untrue!). so this year we are making an extra effort, so hopefully, it will pay off. (we have winter rush). but i must say that i think not making quota hurts us. last year quota was 38 and we took only 21. with COB, we brought it up to 23. but i think people see confirmation of our supposed "uncoolness" in our low numbers. but in reality, we're cool, but freshmen have such a negative stereotype that often many of the women we've been looking at withdraw rather than pledge, when they would have made a great addition to our sisterhood. i know about 10 women who *could* have been in my pledge class, if they just hadn't withdrawn! that would have brought us almost to quota... anyway, i think on our campus, where we are the only house not making quota (which of course is printed up in the paper after bid night, being a predominantly greek campus) people look at quota as an extension of our reputation... when in reality, we're a lot of fun, and people are just scared to pledge! *sigh* coming from my perspective, quota is really, really, really important--of course, i would rather go under quota that take women we don't think would work in our sisterhood, but this year i want quota so bad i can taste it..... plus, on our small campus, if you don't make quota for several years, you have fewer people to conduct rush and meet freshmen in the coming years.... i guess it depends on your campus and chapter, though!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 11:13 PM
RubberSoul RubberSoul is offline
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Great Lakes, USA
Posts: 191
There have been some good points made here, but I have to say, having just sat in on bid matching for a large university, making quota does not always mean what it might seem on the outside. Sometimes the top chapters are SO selective that it can actually hurt their numbers. We faced a situation where we had to hand match some of the PNMs, and out of the "top" 3 chapters only 2 were able to get any additional girls this way......therefore those 2 chapters ended up with 29 new members where the other only got 24. It can vary. I would say that missing it by one or two does not necessarily mean anything, but if you are consistently off and not getting the girls who were at the top of your list then you might have a problem.
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:46 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.