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  #1  
Old 05-04-2020, 04:35 AM
HoneyDip05 HoneyDip05 is offline
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BGLO Ethical Issue

I’m posting this here because I honestly do not know where else to ask this. I am a new member but I have been on this site countless times and found useful information in the past. I really don’t want to ask anyone I know in real life in case I end up having to take action. I’m hoping someone more experienced can help? Ideally members of Divine Nine/ NPHC orgs would respond (because I'm not sure if procedures are the same for NPC orgs) but I welcome ALL input. I'm having a hard time with this and I'm not sure if I am being irrational or if I am right to be as angry as I am.

TLDR- my college roommate was a renegade member of a D9 sorority in college and has now joined my D9 sorority as a grad member. Is there anything I can do to report her or have her expelled? Would she have to know if I am the one who reports her?

Long version: I pledged my sorority 15 years ago as an undergrad. My roommate and I went through the initial process, interest meeting, application etc. together. She ended up not making line and I did. It was devastating. I had not been interested in pledging before meeting her freshman year. She came from a family of sorors, though she is not a legacy, and her excitement and passion is what got me interested in the first place. After not making line, she always said she would go grad.

The next year, she ended up dating a guy who is also in a D9 frat who suggested she join the sorority that is affiliated with his. I was shocked that she agreed. I asked her what about her lifelong interest in my org. She said that she wanted to have a process and felt that as a grad member she would always feel that she missed out and didn’t earn it. Okay. Long story short, her line ended up caught up in some drama. They never got paperwork, were never initiated, and they were a renegade line. I guess technically she never joined the org officially but she was definitely known as a member of the org among the Greek community in our area. There are many people who can attest that she is a ghost.

Fast forward 13 years. We graduated and lost touch a few years after graduation. We are friends on social media but not in contact in real life. I’m on Facebook minding my business in a private sorors group and I SEE HER in the group. I’m SHOCKED and then I get pissed off honestly. We’ve been friends on FB all this time, I never saw her post anything about joining my org. I hit her up casually, like, um hey I don’t think you should be in the group? She tells me she was inducted into a grad chapter for my org 2 years ago! She moved back home, which is only a neighboring state away, and her cousin helped her get into a local grad chapter. I told her that since she joined another org in college that it was unethical for her to join mine. She had the nerve to tell me to pull up the paperwork?!!! OBVIOUSLY there is no paperwork because she is a GHOST! She said there is no ethical issue because she was never initiated into any Greek organization. The conversation got heated. She told me I would never find a picture of her with letters, making a hand sign, or any record of membership in the other org. She said as far as the other org is concerned she never existed. Apparently, her dumbass never even filled out an application for membership!!! She said they started pledging her line before beginning any official process- not even an application filed—and when they got investigated the chapter members kept pledging them and crossed the line. She said the only thing she officially did was attend an interest meeting and there’s no rule against that. Meanwhile, I vividly remember her pledging for several weeks and I even went to the party they had when their line crossed! I asked her if she is not embarrassed? She said no!! She doesn’t think it is any different from people who are denied membership in one org and pledge another or drop off line from one org and join another. She’s legit crazy!

As far as I am concerned she is not a member of my sorority and will never, ever be my soror. She is a member of another org. I think it is unethical and I think she should be expelled. It’s awkward because we have all the same friends from college. It would probably ruin relationships with all of our mutual friends if I report her. Since several people know it wouldn’t necessarily come down to me being the one who reported it. I can’t let this go. It is so disrespectful to my org and my founders. Is there anything I can do?

Last edited by HoneyDip05; 05-04-2020 at 04:43 AM. Reason: clarity
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  #2  
Old 05-04-2020, 07:55 AM
Titchou Titchou is online now
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I can only speak for my NPC group - you have to be officially initiate thru the proper procedures with our Executive Offices to be considered a member. In a case like you describe, she would not have been a member of the first group so would be eligible to go thru the process of the second one.
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Old 05-04-2020, 08:36 AM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Do you feel comfortable to speak to her directly? Maybe she would be able to explain why she circled back around to your org. Maybe she came to realize that her heart was with your org.
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  #4  
Old 05-04-2020, 11:57 AM
andthen andthen is offline
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OP - I'm not a member of a D9 org. And I can certainly understand why you'd be upset knowing the history of your college roommate with this other org.

I'm just wondering if there is anything in your sorority's governing documents addressing this. Since I'm sure this isn't a one off situation. I get the fact that technically she might not have been an official member of the other org, but it sounds like she was acting as though she was an official member of this other org.

That's a complicated situation, I hope somewhere out there you can get some more info to make an informed decision on how to proceed.
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  #5  
Old 05-04-2020, 12:12 PM
Sen's Revenge Sen's Revenge is offline
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I think you're stuck, friend.

Yes. she is a TERRIBLE person.

But she won't be the last terrible person to join your organization.

Frankly, she's right--if she never officially joined the other sorority, then there's nothing that can be done to kick her out of the one she lawfully joined.

The only way it would work is if you actually found photos of her wearing the other organization's paraphernalia. If I was an RD, that would be enough evidence for me.

Until then, I honestly would just block her on social media. She's going to be a problem.
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Old 05-04-2020, 05:44 PM
navane navane is offline
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Oh dear. What an awful situation.

HoneyDip05, I know this circumstance does not sit well with you at all and you said that you are having a hard time letting it go. I am certain that you understand that this is about *her* integrity, not yours. At the end of the day, you rightfully earned your place in your sisterhood and she did not. I know it seems unfair and disrespectful and you want justice for your organization. *She* is the one who has to look at herself in the mirror every morning and *she* knows what she did. Even if it doesn't sit well with your soul, know that you are on this side of right and the situation is what it is at this point.

I'm not an NPHC member; so, it's not my place to comment on if you should try to report her. I agree with Sen that that you should at least unfriend her. Since you had the disagreement with her over messages, if you did report her, she would most certainly believe it was you who did it. Such a tough call.
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  #7  
Old 05-04-2020, 06:59 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge View Post
I think you're stuck, friend.

Yes. she is a TERRIBLE person.

But she won't be the last terrible person to join your organization.

Frankly, she's right--if she never officially joined the other sorority, then there's nothing that can be done to kick her out of the one she lawfully joined.

The only way it would work is if you actually found photos of her wearing the other organization's paraphernalia. If I was an RD, that would be enough evidence for me.

Until then, I honestly would just block her on social media. She's going to be a problem.
This.

OP won't necessarily be able to prove her case. This person is clearly without qualms about dishonest behavior and I wouldn't discount the idea that something retaliatory could take place. I would suggest OP doesn't need having to replace slashed tires or broken windows in her life.
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  #8  
Old 05-06-2020, 06:42 AM
Sen's Revenge Sen's Revenge is offline
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I just wanted to circle back around to this point and add some clarity for the non-NPHC friends.

"Renegades" are people who are not lawful members of an organization but have completed an underground pledging and initiation process, and therefore know the same information as a duly initiated member. Of course, they cannot produce a membership card or certificate, but they usually enjoy all of the social privileges of having "pledged" -- and in some places, get more respect than duly initiated members who were not hazed.

This is different from a "perp." A perp is just pretending without any sort of authority.

It is HIGHLY UNUSUAL for a renegade to go on to join another organization, even after the passage of time. A renegade, if he or she has any sort of inclination, will more likely say to themselves "Hey, I really love this organization and want to give to it meaningfully and officially." And they join an alumni chapter through the official intake process. Sometimes, they do it unknown to all involved, but more often, their sponsor will know and keep it quiet. Some organizations even have an amnesty program, since it's not the fault of the initiate that they were made a renegade.

One of my favorite Alphas began his Alpha life as a renegade, then had his situation fixed while he was in grad school. He later went on to become the president of one of the five largest alumni chapters in the fraternity.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:09 AM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Thank you for the explanation Sen.
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Old 05-06-2020, 08:31 AM
andthen andthen is offline
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Yes thanks Sen, I've read various posts on this board about individuals who went through unofficial channels but never really fully understood some of the other elements involved with this. I also didn't realize that some orgs allow for amnesty programs that allow individuals to go through the official channels.

Just my humble opinion its kind of a shame as you mentioned that some renegades have more "social" status (if you will) by going through an underground program. To me it just sort of erodes the fundamentals and ideals of what these organizations were founded on.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:04 AM
HoneyDip05 HoneyDip05 is offline
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I just want to give a sincere thank you to everyone who responded. I appreciate you taking the time to offer support and advice. I honestly was surprised this effected me as much as it did and it was great to have a safe space to vent, learn, and move forward. I think there is nothing I can do about this. It's a terrible situation that feels unfair but there is no point in me harboring anger for something I can't fix.

Sen, thank you. I've always been impressed by things you wrote when I lurked here. Having the benefit of your advice in this situation was especially helpful to me. What you wrote about renegades was in line with my thoughts/and experience. That explanation affirmed for me that I am not wrong or crazy. I have never heard of a renegade doing what she did. I've known people who get paperwork later and serve the org, fall off the map, or hang around pledging people underground forever and never get right with their orgs. I took your advice and blocked her. You're right, she is not the first terrible person to join my org and she won't be the last. At least you gave me an option to not have to see her be terrible in mine lol.
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Old 05-07-2020, 01:58 PM
honeychile honeychile is offline
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Sen shoots and scores - again! Thank you!
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Old 05-07-2020, 07:13 PM
NinjaPoodle NinjaPoodle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge View Post
I think you're stuck, friend.

Yes. she is a TERRIBLE person.

But she won't be the last terrible person to join your organization.

Frankly, she's right--if she never officially joined the other sorority, then there's nothing that can be done to kick her out of the one she lawfully joined.

The only way it would work is if you actually found photos of her wearing the other organization's paraphernalia. If I was an RD, that would be enough evidence for me.

Until then, I honestly would just block her on social media. She's going to be a problem.
Ditto

As I was reading your situation, I was thinking you could check on the national websites for the lists of banned/expelled but ....GHOST.
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Old 05-07-2020, 08:40 PM
navane navane is offline
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For my NPHC friends, something of a rhetorical question -- if the OP did find a photo (old photo album, university yearbook, etc) of the woman from her college days, sporting the paraphernalia of the first organization, would that be grounds for dismissal from the second? Sen seems to think that it could. After all, why would she throw the hand sign or wear a jacket for a GLO she "never pledged", right? So, even if she was a perp, would that also be grounds for dismissal from the second organization?

A year or so ago, some sisters and I found one of our badges for sale online. I attempted to contact the sister to notify her that her badge was being sold online. We wanted to make sure that it hadn't been lost or stolen from her. Not only did I find out that the seller of the badge was the member herself; but, to my horror, she had transferred universities and initiated into a different NPC organization. She was never resigned from my sorority; but, she was posting pictures all over the internet in her new organization's letters! Let's just say that the issue was "handled" between our headquarters and the headquarters of the other sorority.

But still, that's pretty gutsy. To be a renegade in an organization, be so open about it in front of many people for so long, and then "lawfully" join another org later? Oof.
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:55 PM
Sen's Revenge Sen's Revenge is offline
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Times like this I wish ladygreek was still alive. She was a past Regional Director in her sorority and could have told us definitively what she would have done if presented with the evidence.

My guess is that if a photo was found, and the two orgs began talking to each other, even if the first org had no records of the woman, the second org could see it as a big enough ethical issue to instigate an investigation.

Because what sort of answer could you give when confronted? Pretend that it isn't you? That can be easily refuted. I can't imagine a situation in which I would just look the other way and leave it be.
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