times are changing and i need some help

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

This isn't coming from actives. It's coming from pledges/new members/candidates/whatever you want to call them, the very people that "anti-hazing" statutes are supposed to protect.

It often doesn't matter what the "pledges" say and whether they claim to like and/or appreciate what they have to do.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Oh, and congratulations everyone for chasing the OP off, and making her even more resentful about having to create an anti-hazing pledge program. That will really help the girls joining this group next year.

Imagine a world where GC determines outcomes.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

So it's our fault she left after asking us to help her haze in a way that could not be "seen or heard?" Not my job. Her group shouldn't haze, the new members shouldn't put up with it, and that won't change until her perspective does. She pretty much ignored everyone (from whatever conference) saying that you could pledge without hazing and complained about how they couldn't haze anymore.

Sorry, not buying it, not helping it, not feeling bad because it took its ball and went home.

Thank you.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It often doesn't matter what the "pledges" say and whether they claim to like and/or appreciate what they have to do.

Exactly my point. The nationals/schools/anti-hazing advocates get on their high horses and say it's to protect the pledges, when often they aren't thinking about them at all. They're thinking about their own good PR.

How many posts have we seen on here from girls who have been through NM education, are now members of their groups and are CLUELESS as to how to operate in their org and about Greek life in general because they didn't learn anything, because "pledging" was nothing but 6 weeks of touchy-feely and presents? What did they pay those huge fees for?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Actually, my first paragraph referred to your example, my second to the OP.

So it's our fault she left after asking us to help her haze in a way that could not be "seen or heard?" Not my job. Her group shouldn't haze, the new members shouldn't put up with it, and that won't change until her perspective does. She pretty much ignored everyone (from whatever conference) saying that you could pledge without hazing and complained about how they couldn't haze anymore.

Sorry, not buying it, not helping it, not feeling bad because it took its ball and went home.

Actually, the crux of her post was her asking for an efficient way to help pledges learn information. I gave her a simple non-hazing way and also pointed out that some of the things they were doing weren't necessary.

The "not seen or heard" was in reference to people reporting that they heard things and included a after it - in other words SHE WAS JOKING.

Seriously, anyone who comes on here with local letters gets assumed to be one of two things: 1) horrible hazers 2) a "joke" GLO. It's fucking annoying.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Actually, the crux of her post was her asking for an efficient way to help pledges learn information. I gave her a simple non-hazing way and also pointed out that some of the things they were doing weren't necessary.

The "not seen or heard" was in reference to people reporting that they heard things and included a after it - in other words SHE WAS JOKING.

Seriously, anyone who comes on here with local letters gets assumed to be one of two things: 1) horrible hazers 2) a "joke" GLO. It's fucking annoying.

Your interpretation and mine are quite different. The only reason I think they have a hazing problem is because she said they did. And the after it could mean " ha ha not really" or "wink wink you know what I mean." I interpreted it to be the latter and still do. Sorry.

Her responses to the posts, including the different specific things she mentioned, only confirm my impression.

heyy... so my sorority isn't national and we're located in a smaller school. the past few semesters, we have gotten in trouble for "hazing" and people have gone to the school saying that they have heard things coming from our house. thank god we havent lost recognition, so now it is time for some changes. Im PM next semester and im trying to come up with some new, contructive ideas on how to pledge our girls, especially during the day time while they are at the house. im looking for anything that is stern and constructive with the pledges but at the same time, not seen or HEARD by anyone else. if anyone has any ideas please help me out! it sucks that things have to change but what are you gonna do?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Exactly my point. The nationals/schools/anti-hazing advocates get on their high horses and say it's to protect the pledges, when often they aren't thinking about them at all. They're thinking about their own good PR.

How many posts have we seen on here from girls who have been through NM education, are now members of their groups and are CLUELESS as to how to operate in their org because they didn't learn anything, because "pledging" was nothing but 6 weeks of touchy-feely and presents? What did they pay those huge fees for?

LOL. But, the opinions of "pledges" shouldn't matter. There are "pledges" who for some reason enjoyed being paddled and look forward to doing that to the next group of "pledges." Sure, having to wear colors isn't the same as being paddled but there's a thin line when you are putting "pledging" in the hands of people with a potentially vivid imagination and a gatekeeper mentality. The end result is that we have to realize that these strict regulations that prohibit things that seem meaningful and harmless exist because people don't know how to quit when they're ahead. Imagine being a regional and national entity that has to regulate hundreds of chapters and thousands of members.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. But, the opinions of "pledges" shouldn't matter. There are "pledges" who for some reason enjoyed being paddled and look forward to doing that to the next group of "pledges." Sure, having to wear colors isn't the same as being paddled but there's a thin line when you are putting "pledging" in the hands of people with a potentially vivid imagination and a gatekeeper mentality. The end result is that we have to realize that these strict regulations that prohibit things that seem meaningful and harmless exist because people don't know how to quit when they're ahead. Imagine being a regional and national entity that has to regulate hundreds of chapters and thousands of members.

I always frame it as, Greeks used to have a lot more freedom. But some people had to blow it and that's why you have a 10pm curfew and can't date til you're 17. Sucks? Yes. But the collective "we" showed we can't be trusted.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Actually, the crux of her post was her asking for an efficient way to help pledges learn information. I gave her a simple non-hazing way and also pointed out that some of the things they were doing weren't necessary.

Right and she thanked you. What are you complaining about? LOL.

Greekchat is not a place to be babysat. I'm actually amused that you feel this way considering your rant about "touchy-feely" processes. The OP has her letters and should know what to do with them regardless of what GCers type.

Originally Posted by 33girl

The "not seen or heard" was in reference to people reporting that they heard things and included a after it - in other words SHE WAS JOKING.

She should save that joke for the Greek Life office. They would slap their knees in laughter.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Seriously, anyone who comes on here with local letters gets assumed to be one of two things: 1) horrible hazers 2) a "joke" GLO. It's fucking annoying.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I always frame it as, Greeks used to have a lot more freedom. But some people had to blow it and that's why you have a 10pm curfew and can't date til you're 17. Sucks? Yes. But the collective "we" showed we can't be trusted.

There ya have it.

People break the rules (often the rules they think prohibits the meaningful and harmless stuff) and they do so knowing that getting caught has a consequence. Cause and effect.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Seriously, anyone who comes on here with local letters gets assumed to be one of two things: 1) horrible hazers 2) a "joke" GLO. It's fucking annoying.

[KSUViolet06]

Let's not forget that the OP did SAY that they have been sanctioned for hazing recently. So it's not as if people are steretyping her org as a "local full of hazers."

My personal opinion: the point of NM education is to prepare NMs for active membership. Wearing colors on X day, phone answering, et al. might not be super harmful to the NM, but it does very little to prepare an NM for life as an active.

It is possible to learn a respect for your org without such trivialities.

[IrishLake]

I gave a suggestion. The OP didn't respond to it. I certainly don't see Locals as losers or major hazers. I have several cousins-in-law who were in Local orgs at small ohio colleges, and never ever got that impression. But considering the OP said they had been in trouble with their college for hazing, and people "hear" things coming from their house... I took that in a literal sense. Not that people hear rumors about her house, but that people walk by and either hear the girls yelling or singing or doing something very vocal for long periods of time. Is yelling or singing to excess the best way to get new members to learn what needs to be learned? Hardly.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

I gave a suggestion.

Yes, you did. And then you went on to be kind of condescending to her. Speaking of quitting while you're ahead.

Seriously, if you (everyone you) can't step out of your national bubble, just don't pay attention to any posts from anyone in a local. I'm sorry but I've seen this attitude time and time again on GC over the years and I'm just really sick and tired of it. If this girl had been from a chapter of a national and said she got accused of hazing unfairly, I doubt there would have been an automatic pile on.

[KSUViolet06]

Ummmm ok?

You know I'd be the first to agree with you if I felt that were the case, but I really don't see the pile-on that you're describing (at least not in this thread).

What I said, I'd say to any member of any sorority (even my own).

When you've been sanctioned for hazing before, you're on your school's radar a little and like it or not, you have to play by the rules (whether you think that makes for a "touchy-feely" program or not).