Sig Ep Out at Ole Miss

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

The families of Jordan Davis and Travon Martin would like a word with you.

Can we cut Mississippi a little slack on those since (while it historically had numerous horrible problems) both of those recent cases were from south Florida?

[Low D Flat]

The Florida cases are horrific and important. But they aren't garden-variety activity. Even most Klansmen do not walk around shooting black teenagers. In Florida, we're talking about two murderers, and in Mississippi three makers of death threats. That number doesn't suggest, to me, that a majority or even a tenth of American racists (a category I count in the tens of millions) would take such actions.

If we're talking about people who would condone death threats or look the other way, yeah, that's unquestionably a bigger group. But my point was that these guys, with the actions they took, are outliers even among racists, and that therefore their embrace by an organization reflects badly on the organization.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by HQWest

Can we cut Mississippi a little slack on those since (while it historically had numerous horrible problems) both of those recent cases were from south Florida?

No. I used those two examples because they are current and well-known. There are plenty of others, spanning many states, and pretending it's a Florida problem of some sort is really burying your head in the sand.

Here's a good roundup for your perusal:
http://www.theroot.com/photos/2013/0...d_stories.html

I'm not looking to debate the merits of any particular case mentioned, I'm just making the point that racism still has life-and-death consequences in these United States, whether you see it or not (and if you pass through life as a white person, you don't see it the way people of color do).

[ASTalumna06]

Ole Miss fraternities respond to noose, flag around James Meredith statue:

http://documents.latimes.com/ole-mis...redith-statue/

[thetalady]

A little more information from the Sig Ep CEO about the situation at Ole Miss:

http://wreg.com/2014/02/25/ole-miss-...h-desecration/

He does confirm that the 3 Idiots From Georgia were members, not pledges. Their names have still not been released.

It sounds like there were no city or state law broken that the University, Oxford or Mississippi can pursue. It may be up to the Feds to decide if they want to pursue federal hate crime charges.

[Low D Flat]

DBB, agreed.

[KDCat]

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

No. I used those two examples because they are current and well-known. There are plenty of others, spanning many states, and pretending it's a Florida problem of some sort is really burying your head in the sand.

Here's a good roundup for your perusal:
http://www.theroot.com/photos/2013/0...d_stories.html

I'm not looking to debate the merits of any particular case mentioned, I'm just making the point that racism still has life-and-death consequences in these United States, whether you see it or not (and if you pass through life as a white person, you don't see it the way people of color do).

Right, that's why I want people to see these issues beyond "chapter operations" and beyond "hazing." Pretending as though the larger problem is "chapter operations" or "hazing" (when applicable) is what keeps this stuff going. People are unable to see the larger themes because they are buried in certain details. That reminds me of that thread from a few months ago in which I was a bit shocked that GCers were talking for pages about everything except for what I considered to be the main theme.

As an aside, there are people such as myself who frown at the phrase "people of color" because it implies that whiteness is race neutral enough that white people are void of skin color. I've never met a (literally) transparent white person. Therefore, all humans are people of color. But my opinion doesn't make the world go around.

[WhiteRose1912]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

As an aside, there are people such as myself who frown at the phrase "people of color" because it implies that whiteness is race neutral enough that white people are void of skin color. I've never met a (literally) transparent white person. Therefore, all humans are people of color. But my opinion doesn't make the world go around.

Doesn't saying "non-white" also have negative connotations (implying that they lack white skin)? I'm curious what term you prefer when discussing people who don't have white privilege.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by WhiteRose1912

Doesn't saying "non-white" also have negative connotations (implying that they lack white skin)? I'm curious what term you prefer when discussing people who don't have white privilege.

It can have negative connotations since non-white only works if the baseline category is being white. That happens for some research and discussions of power dynamics, for example. For me it matters what is attempting to be conveyed.

I use "racial and ethnic minorities" which is about the wide range of racial and ethnic groups at the lower social power spectrum. People of the white diaspora would be racial and ethnic majorities (that includes inequality and disparity among ethnic groups within the white diaspora).

/DrPhil + WhiteRose1912 = thread hijack

[WhiteRose1912]

Interesting, thank you.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

/DrPhil + WhiteRose1912 = thread hijack

[DrPhil]

But, I wasn't attempting to correct DBB. People use the words and phrases that are familiar. As long as we all know what each other is talking about.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

But, I wasn't attempting to correct DBB. People use the words and phrases that are familiar. As long as we all know what each other is talking about.

Yeah, that's the preferred term used by most of the people with whom I interact IRL, and I've been told the problem with "racial and ethnic minorities" is that white people are actually the minority, worldwide, so acting like we aren't is a privilege in itself. Further, "ethnic minority" can mean lots of people with passing privilege (myself included!). So AFAIK, the REAL best solution is to identify the groups impacted, and not lump everyone into a "non-white" group, and I probably should have just used "black" in this case, as that is the group impacted by both the original story and the link I posted.

/hijack

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Yeah, that's the preferred term used by most of the people with whom I interact IRL

Yeah and I always find it...interesting...when I'm around racial and ethnic minorities who use "people of color".

The history of the phrase "people of color" includes an off-color (pun intended) joke about how some racial and ethnic minorities believe whites have more "colors" than nonwhites.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

and I've been told the problem with "racial and ethnic minorities" is that white people are actually the minority, worldwide....

People of the white diaspora are the majority in terms of power. This is about power and not population size. Power is what creates white privilege and that is what allows people of the white diaspora to be the dominant group even when they are the population size minority (whites are very much the size majority in countries like U.S.A.).

/watching "Free Angela Davis" on BET

[Kevin]

Good grief.. clamoring for hate crime charges? Y'all know the federal government cannot punish an act of speech--even if it's dumb and offensive as hell. The school, on the other hand can give these young men das boot if it wants to, but "pursuing hate crimes charges" for an act which damaged no property and broke no actual laws? Or at least nothing the state or local authorities could proceed with? Good luck with that one.

The LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nation...#axzz2uVaXftsa

has an interesting article which states that if the government could prove that this was an effort to intimidate, then maybe hate crime charges could be filed. Since these kids are doing the smart thing and not saying a word to the authorities, so long as they continue to do so, I don't see a world where there could ever be enough evidence to file charges (unless we have some sort of tweet about them trying to kick off a race war or something along those lines).