» GC Stats |
Members: 325,124
Threads: 115,503
Posts: 2,196,042
|
Welcome to our newest member, znathanhulzeo24 |
|
|
|
08-28-2014, 09:45 AM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Somewhere in the Middle
Posts: 302
|
|
Legacy Policy
I came across this article about Tri Delta's Legacy Policy and found it very interesting. All groups have different qualifications on what is considered a legacy, and different policies in membership selection. The way that they describe legacies as "a special joy and a special problem" is true.
I think that it is also interesting that the legacy situation is up to each chapter's discretion, and that there is no national rule of thumb.
Thoughts?
http://www.tridelta.org/trident/stor...aslegacypolicy
__________________
Alpha Delta Pi
First. Finest. Forever.
Since 1851
|
08-28-2014, 10:23 AM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 48
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by azureblue
I came across this article about Tri Delta's Legacy Policy and found it very interesting. All groups have different qualifications on what is considered a legacy, and different policies in membership selection. The way that they describe legacies as "a special joy and a special problem" is true.
I think that it is also interesting that the legacy situation is up to each chapter's discretion, and that there is no national rule of thumb.
Thoughts?
http://www.tridelta.org/trident/stor...aslegacypolicy
|
Fascinating, well written piece. It is probably the best explanation of a national organization's position that I've read on the subject. And it is honest, which is great. I actually agree with all the statements in the article.
It is disappointing that approximately 4% of their alumnae pay alumnae dues, which are often very little. However, I've heard that most orgs have similar participation rates. I would wonder if you would see a spike in alumnae due particpation if a legacy were only truly considered a legacy if say her legacy relative had paid dues within the last five consecutive years? Just a thought
Not all legacies and all alumnae are considered equal in my mind. If a PNM's mom, sister or grandma has been loyal to the organization, contributed to building campaigns (even if just a small amount), and participated in her alumnae organization, I would give that a lot of weight. It shows a family commitment to the organization, and I would believe that she would be far more likely to stick with her membership for 4 years, than say the woman whose relative hasn't done anything since she graduated 25 years ago.
But I'm not a collegian, and I think it is the role of advisers to explain why not all legacies are necessarily considered equal. I think education and research about the legacy is very important. Above all, every PNM and legacy should be treated with respect when going through recruitment. Unfortunately some people assume that respect means and automatic invite, and it shouldn't.
|
08-28-2014, 10:38 AM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: My heart & mind is in Hawaii
Posts: 281
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkSkyAtNight
It is disappointing that approximately 4% of their alumnae pay alumnae dues, which are often very little. However, I've heard that most orgs have similar participation rates. I would wonder if you would see a spike in alumnae due particpation if a legacy were only truly considered a legacy if say her legacy relative had paid dues within the last five consecutive years? Just a thought
|
Now THAT is a great idea!!! Seriously.
__________________
Gamma Phi Beta
|
08-28-2014, 10:47 AM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 790
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaTish
Now THAT is a great idea!!! Seriously.
|
Definitely! If you only come out of the woodwork because your daughter is entering university, there is nothing to indicate that she is actually going to be active longterm, either
__________________
AGD
Squirrels just want to have fun!
|
08-28-2014, 10:57 AM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 548
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkSkyAtNight
Not all legacies and all alumnae are considered equal in my mind. If a PNM's mom, sister or grandma has been loyal to the organization, contributed to building campaigns (even if just a small amount), and participated in her alumnae organization, I would give that a lot of weight. It shows a family commitment to the organization, and I would believe that she would be far more likely to stick with her membership for 4 years, than say the woman whose relative hasn't done anything since she graduated 25 years ago.
|
It seems like that would lead to a lot of time spent “ranking” legacy PNMs based on factors beyond their control. Legacy A‘s older sister, a much-loved chapter president, graduated the previous spring and moved to an area of the country that doesn’t have an alumnae chapter, and hasn’t been able make financial contributions. Legacy B’s mother just got involved with a very small alumnae chapter last year, made a sizable donation to the national foundation, and was elected secretary of her alumnae chapter 6 months later. Legacy C’s mother lives in a big city where she’s been a member for years of a large alumnae chapter but never held an office, and has made small but consistent donations to the national foundation for the last 20 years. Legacy D's mother has pretty much been MIA since graduating, but has an aunt and grandmother who have been extremely involved at various levels. Which Legacy would receive priority?
And not all organizations have alumnae dues. Chi Omega does not.
|
08-28-2014, 11:46 AM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 48
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi-o_cat
It seems like that would lead to a lot of time spent “ranking” legacy PNMs based on factors beyond their control. Legacy A‘s older sister, a much-loved chapter president, graduated the previous spring and moved to an area of the country that doesn’t have an alumnae chapter, and hasn’t been able make financial contributions. Legacy B’s mother just got involved with a very small alumnae chapter last year, made a sizable donation to the national foundation, and was elected secretary of her alumnae chapter 6 months later. Legacy C’s mother lives in a big city where she’s been a member for years of a large alumnae chapter but never held an office, and has made small but consistent donations to the national foundation for the last 20 years. Legacy D's mother has pretty much been MIA since graduating, but has an aunt and grandmother who have been extremely involved at various levels. Which Legacy would receive priority?
And not all organizations have alumnae dues. Chi Omega does not.
|
Agreed, it could definitely lead to ranking of legacies, but don't we already do that anyway with non-legacy PNMs?
If I were having a say in the process, I would try to consider that it isn't necessarily the amount that a person contributes, but rather they have contributed what they can. Also, there are ways to be involved in your organization remotely. Or, you can start an alumnae association or at minimum, continue to volunteer with your sorority's philanthropy and wear your letters while doing so. There are lots of ways to be a supportive, active alum even if you don't have a lot of money or time to give. And while it might be beyond the control of a legacy PNM about how her relative has been engaged with the organization, simply just being a legacy and knowing about the greek system is often advantage that those from non-greek families don't.
I guess I'm just speaking because it really irritates me when alums come out of the woodwork and presume that their legacy will be automatically invited, yet she when her daughter isn't invited back she starts running her mouth on the national Facebook page yet she isn't even part of the local alum Facebook group, despite repeated invites. Sometimes, I think these types could benefit from someone asking them, what have you done for your sorority that should entitle your relative to an advantage over a woman who has more to offer?
|
08-28-2014, 12:45 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ILL-INI
Posts: 7,208
|
|
I think it ties into the larger question of what legacy policies are intended to do in the first place. Do we think taking a legacy keeps her alumna relative happy? Or does it cause them to get more involved? Or does the promise of a legacy bid keep her involved? Or do we think legacies will be better members?
I guess my point is that there should be a reason besides "tradition" why legacies get preferential treatment.
|
08-28-2014, 12:53 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 1,385
|
|
I'd personally like to see the legacy tradition die.
I think it's awful that PNMs get dropped from legacy chapters because the chapter doesn't want to put them on the first bid list if they are invited to pref. (Not everyone does this, but some do.) Some of those ladies might be a fine addition to a second bid list and end up matching. Some of them might end up having a really great pref and moving up on the bid list after the pref party.
I think legacy policies cause a lot of early cuts of otherwise fine women, because they aren't the very best of their recruitment pool. I think it causes a lot of expectations that can't be met and that causes a lot of hurt feelings.
A chapter could always give extra weight to a legacy introduction form or a rec from a super-involved alumna without guaranteeing a spot on the first bid list.
|
08-28-2014, 01:00 PM
|
Moderator
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,489
|
|
Let's not forget Legacy E, whose mother was married at 22, gave birth to E at 23, and died at 25. Can you imagine how painful it would be to this girl to be told "well, you're really not a legacy, because your mom hasn't paid anything for 5 years"?
I absolutely disagree with ranking legacies based on what their mothers/sisters/grandmas have done, as opposed to what THEY have done. If you really want to magnify the feelings of girls who go into rush thinking "they're only going to take me because I'm a legacy," this is a sure way to do it.
Does it happen? Yes. But I think putting it into policy would be horrendous.
IMO no matter how much you educate people, some are just going to close their ears and believe what they want. I remember us having an article in the Phoenix maybe back in the 80s about legacies not being guaranteed a bid. Keep in mind we are quite a bit smaller than Tri Delta and having pledge classes overflowing with legacies honestly was not a concern. Everyone just needs to realize that what was right for them might not be right for their loved one.
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
|
08-28-2014, 01:25 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 48
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl
Let's not forget Legacy E, whose mother was married at 22, gave birth to E at 23, and died at 25. Can you imagine how painful it would be to this girl to be told "well, you're really not a legacy, because your mom hasn't paid anything for 5 years"?
I absolutely disagree with ranking legacies based on what their mothers/sisters/grandmas have done, as opposed to what THEY have done. If you really want to magnify the feelings of girls who go into rush thinking "they're only going to take me because I'm a legacy," this is a sure way to do it.
Does it happen? Yes. But I think putting it into policy would be horrendous.
IMO no matter how much you educate people, some are just going to close their ears and believe what they want. I remember us having an article in the Phoenix maybe back in the 80s about legacies not being guaranteed a bid. Keep in mind we are quite a bit smaller than Tri Delta and having pledge classes overflowing with legacies honestly was not a concern. Everyone just needs to realize that what was right for them might not be right for their loved one.
|
I think there are obvious exceptions, and in the case of a mother dying at a young age, that would be a pretty clear cut exception. This actually happened to a friend of mine, and several of her mom's sisters wrote amazing letters talking about what an amazing woman her mom was, and how her daughter would be significant asset to the chapter (and she was). Had they released her right away in light of the circumstance, I'm sure that there would have been some pretty insulted alumnae.
I think it is important to honor, recognize and reward alumnae who have made significant contributions (not necessarily financial) to their organization. I have a friend who started our local alumnae organization and did a ton of grassroots efforts to get is started. She has two daughters, and it would be disappointing to me if her daughters weren't given consideration over other PNMs considering what their mom has achieved on our behalf. Because she is a smart alum, she has already educated her daughters that nothing will ever be guaranteed. She has made it clear to them her involvement isn't for their benefit, her efforts part of a bigger picture and she made a lifetime commitment. Her commitment also speaks about the way she is raising her kids, and is a living breathing demonstration of #not4yearsforlife.
|
08-28-2014, 02:22 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 209
|
|
This fall I have seen Facebook posts/rants about the poor girl who is a triple legacy to the sorority and was cut because of grades and the legacy that was cut and is thriving in another chapter. I don't understand the logic of "I am a member therefore my offspring will be a member."
DISCLAIMER: I am a guy and I am in a fraternity. Our membership selection process is different. Yes, some legacies go to different fraternities, only one time have I been told of a father in this case being upset that his son was not offered a bid.
|
08-28-2014, 02:33 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ILL-INI
Posts: 7,208
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDCat
I'd personally like to see the legacy tradition die.
I think it's awful that PNMs get dropped from legacy chapters because the chapter doesn't want to put them on the first bid list if they are invited to pref. (Not everyone does this, but some do.) Some of those ladies might be a fine addition to a second bid list and end up matching. Some of them might end up having a really great pref and moving up on the bid list after the pref party.
|
Not to mention other chapters releasing her because they don't want to "waste an invite" on someone who is presumed to be going to her legacy chapter.
|
08-28-2014, 05:51 PM
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The South
Posts: 213
|
|
My chapter at a northern private 8,500 undergrad university, and I think this is true for most of the chapters at my school, only considers same chapter legacies where legacy mom has been active in the chapter alum association in one way or another or if we get real pressure from the national org like a phone call from the national president. Every year we got irate phone calls from a non chapter legacy mom about how we cut her dd. I was assigned the job one year of answering these calls and it was not a pleasant experience.
|
08-28-2014, 06:47 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 230
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadCat25
My chapter at a northern private 8,500 undergrad university, and I think this is true for most of the chapters at my school, only considers same chapter legacies where legacy mom has been active in the chapter alum association in one way or another or if we get real pressure from the national org like a phone call from the national president. Every year we got irate phone calls from a non chapter legacy mom about how we cut her dd. I was assigned the job one year of answering these calls and it was not a pleasant experience.
|
I hear you on that one but the chapter should be make the phone call first so they have control of the conversation.
On an opposite point, it is equally as emotional for Rho Chis who have to pick up the pieces of legacy girls who are released for reasons they don't understand. The worst of the worst at UT this year was a young women who lost her sister this year and at the time of her death she was an active at another University in Texas. IMO there are times when you simply don't release a legacy. Again IMO this was one of them. But this PNM ended up at a house that she loves and they equally adore her. I am also confident that it stings a bit to know that is yet another lost connection to your sister.
|
08-28-2014, 06:54 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 4,574
|
|
We aree supposed to have an adviser call the legacy's relative and let her know that we're releasing the woman. It doesn't always happen though but it certainly is the polite thing to do. I've had to do it.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|