Kappa Alpha Order

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by MoxieGrrl (in part)
I read a story somewhere that KA was flying the Confederate Flag, and it bothered a cleaning woman. Someone approached the chapter and asked them to take it down. The guys asked why and the person said it was upsetting the cleaning woman. So, they took it down. No more questions asked. I thought that was v.v.nice.

Actually, Kappa Alpha Order adopted the following By-Law at its 2001 National Convention:

Display of the Confederate Battle Flag. The display of the Confederate Battle Flag shall be prohibited from any chapter house, lodge, or meeting place: a "display" shall mean a visible presence from the exterior of said property and from the common areas within. The Confederate Battle Flag shall not be displayed at any fraternity function or gathering, on or off property associated with Kappa Alpha Order. The Confederate Battle Flag shall not be associated with Kappa Alpha Order by any medium including, but not limited to, fabric pattern, printed material, painted or stenciled surfaces, or computer Web sites. The Confederate Battle Flag shall not be incorporated into the design of clothing or any other items bearing symbolism of Kappa Alpha Order.

An issue of the Kappa Alpha Journal a year or so ago (which used to be available on-line, but now I can't find it) had a very good cover story on the association between KA and the Conferderate Battle flag, historically and now, along with discussion of why KA would not want to be associated with the negative connotations the flag carries with so many people.

BTW, Kappa Alpha Order has long had its own, very attractive flag: three vertical bars -- crimson, white and gold -- with a crimson Greek cross (all arms equal length) in the center of the white bar.

For what it's worth.

[MoxieGrrl]

MysticCat: Yeah, I believe that story is at least a few years old. I *think* it was in "Wrongs of Passage."

I agree, the KA Flag rules. I had to make it with icing for their bid day cake this past year.

[Tom Earp]

I am sure that all of us have had members of our Familys way back when fight in the Civil War!

I did, the Earp side for the North and the Lee side in the South!

Andrew Johnson, NO Not Andrew Jackson, was from Eastern Tenn!

Who may you ask was he, da, the 17 th Pres. after Lincoln was killed!

He as A Legislator was the deciding vote when carried in on a streatcher to vote to keep the Union together! Yep related to him too!

The Stars and Bars was the Battle Flag of the Confederacy, but there were all kinds of Flags! This one was picked out to represent the Whites wanting to keep slaves by the People of the North!

It was an economic battle before it was a battle to free the slaves.

Using this particular Flag I think does an injustice! While everyone one wants to use this as a symbol of the Racisim of the South, It is not true!

So the Members Of KA wear Uniforms that show what the beleifs are! They go by Southern Gentlemen, not racists!

I for one Salute another Member of the IFC of GreekDom.

Yes people, We as Greeks are becoming Minoritys on Our Very own campuses! By The Way, That Is All Greeks no matter what color! Get with it and get it together!

Yes, slavery happened in the early years of this Country the Northeren Irish Hate the Southern Irish! The Roman Catholics hate the Protestents and to this day blow each other up!

It is Economics!

Wake up people, that is what life is about! And to damn Unfortunitally so!

Oil, If G Bush keeps talking about taking the Nut out in Iraq, well what the hell then! Pedal or walk to your jobs DA!

I Love My Flag Of the USA! I also love Canada, Englend, and French Flags for what they look lie!

As a kid, I used to make Flags and put them up in my back yard!

Does anyone remember, Dont Tread On Me? That was a Flag also!

Get over your sellf importance and feelings of I hate you because you are white or Black, or Asian! I have!

[Optimist Prime]

The historical meaning of the confederate battle flag is not what most people have an issue with. It was chosen back then because the offical flag of CSA was red and white, like the US flag and people shot the wrong troops. The battle flag was latter adopted by KKK and other racists. It was added to state flags as a payback for intergration.

[OUlioness01]

I don't know any KA's but don't assume that a chapter is racist because of the conferderate issue. After all, Phi Mu's honorary members are Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, and Jefferson Davis. Are we racist? I've never met a Phi Mu who is.

[bolingbaker]

Friend of mine's son just pledged KA at Auburn. As for the snide remark earlier that KA as a fraternity is racist, I'd be curious to know which is the greater liklihood on a given campus: that the KA chapter would have a black member, or that a chapter of one of the mainstream Black fraternities would have a white member.

[dzrose93]

I posted my feelings on this issue a while back, but since someone decided to drag this ole' thread up again, here I go:

Kappa Alpha Order is NOT a racist organization. As in any GLO, there will be some idiots who are prejudiced against certain groups of people. However, it's absolutely asinine to categorize an entire fraternity as racist based on the actions of a select few.

The truth of the matter is that some people have problems with the fact that KA was founded in the South during a very sad time in this nation's history and that the fraternity credits Robert E. Lee as being the Southern gentleman who helped get the fledgling organization off the ground.

The fact that Lee is an historic figure associated with the South during the Civil War has given a lot of people reason to believe that the men of Kappa Alpha would like to go back to the days of slavery. And some incidents involving racism that have cropped up at certain KA chapters in the past have helped to perpetuate that myth, much to the dismay of true Kappa Alpha gentlemen who have been embarrassed and angered by those actions.

However, some folks act like KA is the only fraternity to be publicly humiliated due to the actions of some less-than-desirable members, and I can tell you quite certainly that it is not. Before we start calling the KA organization "racist," maybe some of us should check out our own organizations' histories. I'd be willing to bet that we've all had a few "bad apples" in some of our chapters over the years that we'd rather not claim as our own. But does that make it right for someone to categorize our organizations as being "racist" or "druggies" or "date rapists" -- or any other slanderous term that has been used to describe certain Greek Letter Organizations in recent years?

My brother is a proud Kappa Alpha Southern Gentleman, and there is no fraternity that I would rather him join. His chapter brothers are some of the most polite, respectful and intelligent young men that I've had the opportunity to meet, and they strictly adhere to the code of the Southern gentleman.

When I enter the KA House, I have no doubt that I will be treated with anything but the utmost respect. The guys practically knock each other over trying to open doors for women! I wish that all fraternities offered their pledges the types of etiquette training that Kappa Alpha and a few other groups offer theirs. I think we'd have a lot more gentlemen walking around if they did.

Now, my brother's chapter may not have an African-American member in its ranks currently. However, I don't know any fraternity on his campus that does. It's just one of those things -- down here you don't see many African-Americans in GLO's that aren't considered HBGLO's. What I do know is that I've been to the KA House during band parties and other social events and have looked around the room to see a wide variety of people in attendance -- white, black, Asian, and Hispanic. And these were invitation-only parties. So, if KA is racist, then what were all those non-Caucasian folks doing there? Answer me that.

**dzrose93 stepping off her soapbox**

[AlphaSigOU]

I have nothing but the highest of respect for the Kappa Alpha Order and the principles they teach which are, sadly, lacking in many colleges and universities today. In fact, several of my Masonic lodge brothers are KA Order members.

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by USFstudent
KABillyMac:
I am sorry that you are upset at my posting of this article about your organization. Although I do not see the need for you to retailiate against my organization. Several people have come on this board and call your organization all sorts of terrible things, while since I personally know no KA's from my school since we have no chapter. The article merely came across my desk, and then i noticed the topic. It hurts to lose chapters, but threatening people is the not the way to handle it, not the gentlemanly way you so pride yourself on. However, should you be so inclined to do so, I am a member of Sigma Delta Tau SORORITY. Knock yourself out, I don't pretend that I have less then stellar chapters somewhere, but I will stand by them because they are my sisters.
-USFstudent

Just wondering what your feeling is on the professor "firing" becase of his beliefs.

As for this thread, although I do not know any KA ORder brothers ( I do know a KA Society brother), I have nothing but respect for their fraternity. And their flag kick ass.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Tom Earp (in part)
The Stars and Bars was the Battle Flag of the Confederacy . . . .

Actually,no Tom, although a common mistake. The Stars and Bars was the first national flag of the Confederacy, but as noted was hard to distinguish from the US flag on the battlefield. The so-called Battle Flag was the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. Its design was incorporated into the second national flag (the "Stainless Banner, which looked too much like a flag of surrender when there was no wind), and the third national flag.

The commonly-seen Confederate flag that was (and is) used by the KKK, and is sometimes called the "battle flag," is actually the second naval jack of the Confederate navy.

Just trying to keep things historically accurate.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by dzrose93 (in part)
The fact that Lee is an historic figure associated with the South during the Civil War has given a lot of people reason to believe that the men of Kappa Alpha would like to go back to the days of slavery.

My favorite story about Robert E. Lee: Some years after the Civil War, he was attending church (St. Paul's Episcopal) in Richmond, across the street from the Capitol. At Communion a black man came foward to the altar rail. The others there -- all white -- got up and left. No one else approached the altar rail, leaving the black man there by himself, until one man got up from his seat, walked up the aisle, and knelt next to him. And yes, as I'm sure you can guess, that man was Robert E. Lee.

If we judge by the standards of our own time, then I am sure we would consider Lee a racist (as we would Washington, Jefferson, and many, many others). But by the standards of Lee's time, that silent act was a powerful challenge to prevailing, deeply-entrenched prejudices.

For what it's worth.

[Optimist Prime]

Lee was not racist. In those days states were considered like countries. Like if the UN broke up now and went to war, if Lee were alive he would fight for America, because that is his country, not the UN. It was like that back then. He felt that even though he wanted the US to stay together, Virginia was his country, and he could not fight against his country because that would treason. Lee was Lincolns first choice.

[justhey76]

Kinda sorta back on topic. My sister's ex boyfriend is a KA in oklahoma, and he is one of the nicest, most respectful, and least racist guys I know. And so are his brothers that I hang out with.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by superchick
I thought if you wear the confederate uniform to important events and wave the confederate flag around all the time that you would be racist. They are at my campus, they get in fights with the BGLO's all the time.

OK - I only read the last three pages of this thread, but I'd like to point out that so far we've seen a huge amount of fallacious logic (false dilemmas, appeal to anonymous authority, small sample size, etc etc).

If you're going to post stuff like the above, maybe take a minute to think it through - there are, in fact, Kappa Alphas on this board, and they are NOT racist men.

KABillyMac, one of the most universally liked men on this board, might be a bit shocked to see that he's a closet racist.

In short - shut the hell up kid, unless you're joking (and then I don't get it).

[SigK_Bama]

My husband is a Kappa Alpha, and that was one of the main reasons that I was attracted to him: his kindness, generosity, and the fact that he nearly breaks his arm trying to open the door for me wherever we're going! Like someone else said, whenever I went over to the house when we were in school, and even now, I know that I am around a great group of guys who would do anything for me. And not just because I married one of the brothers, but because I'm a lady and they treat me with respect.

No matter what the national organization was founded on, there are always going to be some idiots that get in who do not in any way represent the ideals that KA was founded on. That goes without saying for every single fraternity and sorority ever founded. But the KAs that I have met are great guys, always welcoming, raise tons of money for MDA, and are well liked by the majority of people.

My $0.02.


Bama