Sig Ep Out at Ole Miss

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by g41965

What tools and idiots. However I don't think Sig Ep should be puninshed unless a connection to the chapter can be established.

We were talking about this at supper last night. My daughter (13) knew nothing about it, but has very good friend in Oxford, so her ears perked up. Her question in response to hearing that three pledges were involved: "Was this one of those things that they make you do when you're joining a fraternity that you're not supposed to let anyone know a about? I forget what you call it." I imagine many folks assume the possible pledging/hazing connection. (And yes, the hazing conversation followed.)

The chapter has been suspended. I assume that's pending a determination that this was just three idiots and not pledging-related. In that sense, I think the GLO aspect and the culture aspect are related. Certainly, the main problem is a broader culture fosters or implicitly approves of this kind of behavior. But I think in the context of these guys pledging, it's fair to ask whether the fraternity was feeding that culture.

[33girl]

It would be interesting to know if the three dipshits knew each other prior to pledging.

[DrPhil]

If they were doing this as part of a pledge process, I would be interested in the culture that allows everyone involved to use a GLO as a cloak for their bigotry.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The chapter has been suspended. I assume that's pending a determination that this was just three idiots and not pledging-related. In that sense, I think the GLO aspect and the culture aspect are related. Certainly, the main problem is a broader culture fosters or implicitly approves of this kind of behavior. But I think in the context of these guys pledging, it's fair to ask whether the fraternity was feeding that culture.

I think it's fair to ask what the fraternity is looking for in brothers that it managed to pledge three who think like this. Apparently they need better character judges.

[Low D Flat]

DGTess, that's exactly what I was thinking. These people have rotten souls. It reflects very badly on those who decided to include them in a selective fraternal organization.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I think it's fair to ask what the fraternity is looking for in brothers that it managed to pledge three who think like this. Apparently they need better character judges.

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

DGTess, that's exactly what I was thinking. These people have rotten souls. It reflects very badly on those who decided to include them in a selective fraternal organization.

To be fair, assuming the chapter was not involved with what happened, I don't think you can blame the chapter for giving them bids. We all know that recruitment can be challenging, decisions are made without TRULY knowing potential members, and we've all had a few bad apples in our chapters. What will define the chapter is how they handle things going forward. If the active members continue to associate with these three "men", then yes, I would agree with you. But these guys were still pledges and may not have shown their true colors until this incident occurred.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

But these guys were still pledges and may not have shown their true colors until this incident occurred.

This is not completely confirmed, but I understand that the 3 Idiots from Georgia were initiates from the Fall 2013 pledge class. They were active members, not pledges. Hopefully they will be formally charged this week, so that their names can be released under FERPA.

[DrPhil]

Every (literally, every) GLO has bigoted people who potentially express their bigotry in overt and illegal ways. It is just a matter of which form of bigotry and which expression of bigotry. Our chapters and national bodies are unable to screen for this stuff.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by thetalady

This is not completely confirmed, but I understand that the 3 Idiots from Georgia were initiates from the Fall 2013 pledge class. They were active members, not pledges. Hopefully they will be formally charged this week, so that their names can be released under FERPA.

Oh, ok - I think because people have said "We'll see if this was pledging related," and the article mentioned they were freshmen, I assumed that they weren't brothers yet, but maybe not. Either way, I just hope the chapter wasn't involved and didn't know what these guys were all about prior to their despicable actions.

[Low D Flat]

All I know is, if I were an active in this group, I'd be doing some major soul searching about how we communicated our values and whether I belonged there any more. Yeah, there are bigots everywhere, but these men aren't regular old bigots. I don't believe that most garden-variety American racists would celebrate and glorify murder. I read placing a noose around James Meredith's neck as a death threat to fellow students, faculty, and staff. If people who would do that felt welcome in my chapter, that would scare me.

[DrPhil]

Actually, the "garden-variety American racists" are the ones who originally did things like (or condoned doing things like) displaying nooses and hanging people. It wasn't considered murder or threat of murder against humans.

As for what these idiots did in 2014, it can spark fear but many Blacks will probably see it as a reminder of racial stupidity and say "oh, that again."

Do I think GLO members should question their GLO because of some bigots in the GLO? Only if the GLO is conducive to bigotry and permits members to outwardly express bigotry with no response from the membership. That does happen but I don't assume that is what happened in this story until we learn more about the chapter's involvement or lack thereof.

[amIblue?]

As it appears thus far from what i have read that the GLO in question took swift action at both the chapter and the national levels. What the young men in the chapter should be questioning is if their a-hole detectors are finely tuned enough for recruiting new members.

[DrPhil]

Well, here's the thing, GLO chapters will only be able to screen for bigots if there is dialogue and there is an environment conducive to people saying things about race and ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, etc. That is not always the case when certain GLOs have cultures of silence regarding these issues. It would probably be less difficult to detect bigotry on the part of sexual orientation and gender (as opposed to race and ethnicity) since these topics can be clouded in religion and a lot of people don't mind being heterosexist. They are more inclined to keep their racism to themselves.

Going back to racism, so many white people pretend as though they are colorblind and believe their predominantly white GLO has nothing to do with race (because white privilege allows most white people to believe whiteness is race neutral). This has been seen on Greekchat hundreds of times over the years. There are tons of white GLO members who feel threatened and angry with any mention of their whiteness and any mention of the fact that their GLO and chapter are predominantly white. Phrases like "we're all SISTERSSSSSSS...we don't care about that other stuff" and "I don't see him as Asian...he's just my BROTHERRRRRR."

So, if some GLOs have cultures of silence and "rainbow pissing ponies" regarding these topics (a diversity workshop does not suffice) then, NO, GLOs will not be able to detect bigots unless the bigots feel comfortable enough revealing themselves (some do and some don't unless they believe their bigotry is welcomed with open arms).

[Low D Flat]

DrPhil, I'm on about 99% of the same page (especially when it comes to pretending that whiteness=race neutrality and the safe space that provides for bigots).

I hope that, even in Mississippi, murderous racism isn't garden-variety any more. We've got a long way to go, there's plenty of it still out there, but I believe we've pushed that style of hate closer to the margins. It certainly was garden-variety in Meredith's day. That said, I defer to folks with deeper and longer experience if they see less change than I think I see.

Also, I agree that most black students will likely roll their eyes and go about their business without much additional fear. But when it comes to death threats, it's the action that matters, rather than the response. Hopefully, these criminals failed to scare anyone, but their attempt to revive an atmosphere of mortal peril is an equally big deal whether it was successful or not.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

I hope that, even in Mississippi, murderous racism isn't garden-variety any more.

The families of Jordan Davis and Travon Martin would like a word with you.