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Welcome to our newest member, haledarkz870 |
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03-09-2001, 01:18 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: NY
Posts: 8,594
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Actually . . . I have to say good for you! If more active members were willing to say stuff like that, print up banners, fact sheets before thir conventions then maybe Groups wouldn't be going dry.
Dry, assuming you are not all quakers opens up more liability for you, but less for your National . . . or so they believe.
Quote:
Originally posted by drinknNole:
Actually gammaphi, the subject title was just the back of our rush shirt this year, so relax.
I think the costs far outweigh the benefits....
Costs:
1) Loss of Alumni Support
2) Declining numbers in rush
3) Increse in numbers in inactives
4) Incresed DWI, DUIS, etc, etc....
Benefit
1) A cleaner house?
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03-09-2001, 02:22 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 3,962
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Quote:
Originally posted by drinknNole:
Costs:
1) Loss of Alumni Support
2) Declining numbers in rush
3) Increse in numbers in inactives
4) Incresed DWI, DUIS, etc, etc....
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OK, so if I get this, the basic reason to be in your fraternity is to drink. The brotherhood and philanthropy and scholarship advantages are all just tossed aside. I ask because you believe you will lose numbers because your house is dry. Wouldn't they still be attracted to your house for the strong brotherhood and lifelong friendships, the sports stuff and whatever other benefits you have to offer???
Benefit
1) A cleaner house?
[/QUOTE]
Imagine what it would be like to walk around your house and not have that incredibly awful stench of 3 day old beer. Imagine that your feet don't stick to the floor. Imagine not mopping up all the spilled beer and cigarette butts. Don't knock a cleaner house
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Delta Phi Epsilon, Celebrating nearly 84 years of Dedication, Pride and Excellence!
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03-09-2001, 02:31 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tally, FL
Posts: 19
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Yes a cleaner house would be nice, but that is why I visit the sorority houses. If you want your fraternity house to act as a sorority house or even a scholarship house, so be it.
On the other hand, having a beer with a group of your best friends at your fraternity house is one of the best things in the world. Nothing beats it. Sitting out on the deck, football weekend, everyone indulging in the socical atmosphere (yes this does include beer and liquor). Ahhhhh
Point is, those houses that go dry because of some Nationals HQ run by a group of 50 year olds fearful of lawsuit, will continue to suffer, until they are run out of existence. Thankfully my National Fraternity is one of 8 nationally that 100% opposes the whole Dry House concept.
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03-09-2001, 04:16 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Greenville, NC USA
Posts: 79
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I'm going to have to agree with everything that KABillyMac and drinknNole has said. God Bless Beer! I am 22 so I can say this! And to everyone who thinks that drinking is the only reason that someone joins a fraternity or sorority, they're wrong. It's a great past time though if you're careful with it! There's a lot more that goes along with joining, everybody should know that. You can't tell me that you haven't had a few alcoholic beverages with some of your brothers/sisters at one point in time. Having fun with friends at tailgates or whatever and having a few beers shouldn't be looked upon as a bad thing. I've had so much fun in the past going to fraternity houses when they're having a party or a tailgate. If they ban those, I'll cry my eyes out!
And as far as a clean house is concerned, if fraternities want to have their houses clean and nice, they'll do it. If they choose not to, then that's their business. I'm going to get in trouble for this one but they can always get their new members to clean the house. My sorority doesn't make our new girls do it but I've seen it done by fraternities. No harm in that!
drinknNole, you're the bomb for expressing how you feel about fraternity houses going dry. On our campus, a couple of the fraternities have already gone dry. I don't know how they're doing it or if they are really abiding by the rules. Our IFC/Panhellenic Councils have put into effect a rule that there will be no more socials at fraternity houses anymore. They're slowly trying to make the Greek community here a dry community. I'm not saying that I agree with this and I'm not saying that I don't. I just don't know how the fraternities are going to do it if or when it happens. I'm used to it though by being in a sorority on this campus. We can't have any alcohol on our premises. It's banned. I think that's true with most sororities on other campuses. I hope your Nationals doesn't make you guys go dry. That would really suck! You'll just have to take it one day at a time or just have parties over at your brothers' apartments. I'm on your side!
[This message has been edited by ztafairy (edited March 09, 2001).]
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03-09-2001, 04:35 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tally, FL
Posts: 19
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Thanks ztacutie..... If Fraternities go dry, then where are all those cute sorority girls supposed to drink? At some bar or something?
The whole topic of going dry is ridiculous, you have a few fraternties (which on our campus, are the ones who are hurting for members) that decide they are a "Dry House", and they expect all fraternities to follow their ways, so that their chapters do not fall too far behind the Fraternity Norm.... Well that aint gonna happen, we are here to stay......
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03-09-2001, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by drinknNole:
If Fraternities go dry, then where are all those cute sorority girls supposed to drink? At some bar or something?
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I can already feel this thread getting out hand...
I really see no problem if a fraternity goes dry. I'm a person who enjoys beer and other kinds of alcohol RESPONSIBLY...but I surely don't depend on fraternities for them! Sure, they're free at frat parties, but if they did go dry it wouldn't be tragedy to go drink at a bar.
It isn't as if fraternities are the only ones on campus having parties on the weekends. I also enjoy attending parties thrown by ppl outside the Greek system.
If dry houses are hurting for membership then let the alcohol consumers go somewhere else, and let the men who want to experience brotherhood to go to the dry houses. The QUALITY of your HOUSE shouldn't be determined by whether or not you're allowed to drink alcohol at your house and functions.
drinknNole if your fraternity isn't dry, then don't worry about it. Respect those who already are. I know I do--because it's nice to see that there are those out there who don't have BEER on their priority list.
[This message has been edited by OohTeenyWahine (edited March 09, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by OohTeenyWahine (edited March 09, 2001).]
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03-09-2001, 06:49 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,489
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Quote:
Originally posted by OohTeenyWahine:
If dry houses are hurting for membership then let the alcohol consumers go somewhere else, and let the men who want to experience true brotherhood to go to the dry houses.
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OTW - I hope you're not suggesting that "true brotherhood" can only be found in a dry house? I've seen fraternities (and sororities for that matter) that party their butts off but they would also lay down their lives for each other - the quality of your bond is not determined by the status of your in-house bar.
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03-09-2001, 10:46 PM
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No, 33girl--in no way did I mean that.
I've taken out "true" and edited my post so that others will not misconstrue my opinion.
A fraternity does not need alcohol to be a fraternity--and I think it's a shame that houses are hurting in membership just because they don't have an "in house bar".
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*I'm an Alpha Gam...Yes I am, Yes I am!*
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03-10-2001, 12:00 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tally, FL
Posts: 19
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We will go dry, when you take the Bottle from our dead cold hands
Any of you guys out there in chapters that their house went Alcohol-Free? How do you do it? How do you have house parties? Gameday Football Traditions?
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Beer Me Poser
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03-10-2001, 12:12 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 356
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Quote:
Originally posted by drinknNole:
Any of you guys out there in chapters that their house went Alcohol-Free? How do you do it? How do you have house parties? Gameday Football Traditions?
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I can see where this is gonna go. nice inflamatory thread heading you got there. i think your question would have a bit more validity without that title. It's a viable question given that partying is a part, not the only, not the most imporant but a part, of greek life.
I do, however, think this question should be asked a little bit less, shall we say, drastically.
let the ranting answers............BEGIN.
[This message has been edited by gphi2k (edited March 09, 2001).]
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03-10-2001, 12:13 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Missouri
Posts: 134
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There is a previous thread that I started called "Alcohol-free Debate" that was last updated on March 2. It has some pretty good insights from several people, so you might want to check that out.
I graduated 5 years ago, and my chapter was forced to go alcohol-free the summer before my senior year. In a nutshell, I feel that it has not worked very well for the house. There have been a few small positive aspects, but too many negative ones that outweigh the positives. However, I have heard stories from other chapters who have seen benefits.
One of the biggest keys is how the decision to ban alcohol came about. If the guys in your chapter decide to do it on your own, or if your national decides to make the move gradually, it has a better chance of working. If your chapter is forced to go alcohol-free against its wishes like mine was, it's an uphill struggle.
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03-10-2001, 12:32 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ky
Posts: 503
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I may lose a little credability for posting here but oh well.
God bless beer.
If we went dry I think I would go alumni. I really just couldnt imagine it. Not that we couldnt function sober, I think we would do just fine, I just dont think its necessary.
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03-10-2001, 12:37 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tally, FL
Posts: 19
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Actually gammaphi, the subject title was just the back of our rush shirt this year, so relax.
I think the costs far outweigh the benefits....
Costs:
1) Loss of Alumni Support
2) Declining numbers in rush
3) Increse in numbers in inactives
4) Incresed DWI, DUIS, etc, etc....
Benefit
1) A cleaner house?
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03-10-2001, 01:44 AM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Mile High America
Posts: 17,088
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First, let me say that I am not emotionally in favor of dry housing.
Having said it, now I must once again point out the following:
*Over 95% of all fraternity insurance claims are alcohol related. This includes injuries, property damage and even deaths.
*Because of the above, there is an ever increasing number of fraternities who cannot get insurance from anywhere. That number is growing and will continue to grow.
*A number of those fraternities have banded together to fund a kind of self insurance pool.
*The amount of money in that pool is nowhere close to what a major insurance company has.
*A very few (possibly as little as two or three) really major claims against this consortium could bankrupt the fund and may well bankrupt all of it's participants.
At that point, the debate will end, because those fraternities will cease to exist.
In the final analysis, all of the arguments about third parties, driving to bars, legal drinking age and all the others will be moot.
We will have killed the organizations that we all love.
A fraternity chapter at Ohio University just closed because of a $2 million award paid by it's national to the parents of a member (at another school) who died in an alcohol related case. That national had to raise it's insusrance bill to over $300 per man. The chapter simply couldn't afford to stay open.
What you are potentially arguing here is not the future of dry or wet housing, but the future of the entire fraternity system.
The real tragedy is that the problem has gotten to this point. Moderation in alcohol consumption is the key. Unfortunately, our track record is terrible.
And Greeks continue to die.
And so, if moderation is not achieved (and I see nothing to indicate that it will be), dry housing is inevitable.
Those are plain, unemotional, dollars and cents facts.
I don't like it, but unless you all are willing to put your house in order, that's what I see in the future.
Fraternally,
DeltAlum
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03-11-2001, 07:34 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,489
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DeltAlum, I am glad to hear you make the distinction that emotionally you aren't for dry housing. In my opinion, the out of control underage drinking that occurs isn't a Greek problem....that's just the only place at some schools where students can get alcohol readily and an easy target because it's an organized group. It's a SOCIETAL problem of a society that grants all rights of adults but one to its young people. And then when those people do receive that right, society's shocked that they don't go from clueless to supereducated. I bet if you looked at schools that don't have Greeks, or non-Greek schools, you would find just as much unwise drinking. It just doesn't get splashed all across the front pages. The 21 drinking age needs to be repealed NOW, for the sake of all young people, not just college students and not just Greeks. I personally think it's better for kids to get the "stupid drinking" out of their system while under the parental roof rather than 1000 miles away.
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