Black and White--Is it an issue?

[Gina_lynn]

I am a member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority. It is a historicaly Black sorority, and I can't imagine having pledged anything else. I hear what people are saying about encouraging diversity, and if you are comfortable with the decision that you made, that's wonderful. But I don't see the "inharent" value in intergrated organizations. I love that durring my intake process I was taught to have a whole other love and appreciation for being a BLACK WOMAN and the accomplishments of my black female sorors. It's not a question of exclusion, it's tradition and legacy.

[Alabama]

That is all fine and good for you to be proud to be a black woman, but for me to say that I would like to keep my sorority all white women so that I can be proud to be a strong white woman is supposedly racist! So why is that? Why can you make that statement and a white woman like myself can't? If I say it and it is racist, then you must be racist also. I hear all of the time that black women and men should be proud of being black, but whenever a white man or woman says that, we are not PC and should adjust our attitude as not ot offend a "minorities" delicate senceabilities. It just so happens that we are not all white, my pledge sister is black and she has never made a statement like you have. I don't understand why you bring up the fact that you are black and are strong because of it, why? There are black guys in my US histroy class that have decided to rage a personal vendeta against all of the shite people in class because at one time in history there were slaves and they happened to be black, and my problem with that is, I don't own a slave, I never have and never will, and if my ancestors did good for them but I had no part of it and it is over with, go get the fuck over it. As you may know MANY black men give black people a very bad name, at least in Iowa they do. I have three black friend two of which are male and about 2/3rds of our college are black males and I will not look at them waling down the halls. They are rude, obnoxious, and just plain sick. I have had things said to me, all by black guys, that no one has ever said to me, and I am offended. The worst is when, at a party, a black guy hollered al me, not my name but some dirogatory comment about my butt and when I didn't acknowlege him he got mad and started saying worse things to me and then got in my face because I didn't fall all over him. This whole process has never been explained to me except that al my school there are a bunch of niggers, black, white, yellow, it doesn't matter. And for those of you who read this, a nigger is a "bad" person, there is no color in that deifintion. So if anyone can explain this fuck up situation to me let me know.

[pink bunny]

Alabama first of all your post was very
unlady like. Second, knuckle head college
boys make rude comments but we should not defame an entire race because of those individuals. Third, If you said you were a proud white woman i would not brand you as
a racist, you assume too much. Now if you
go on a shooting rampage taking out black folks for the "white cause" then of course i would consider you a racist LUNATIC due to your ACTIONS. Otherwise if being white makes you proud then by all means be proud. I personally don't get my self esteem from being black. It comes from who i am on the inside not the skin i'm in.

[Lil' bit]

Alabama, your message was very disturbing. Here you talk about if you wanted to say you were proud to be a White woman you would be labeled a racist. Not true, You can be a proud White woman, just as I a proud Black woman. However, where you go wrong is that the Black Sororities and fraternities do not say they are for "only" Blacks. As you said, you would be labeled for wanting to keep your Sorority all White. Furthermore, as far as the individuals that you have had problems with in Iowa, they are a select few. You can not try to generalize an entire group of people based on what some said to you. If that were the case I suppose that I should say that all White men or teenage boys are murderers, serial killers and the such. I guess I should be afraid to be in an area with all Whites because who knows when a young teenage White boy will come and start shooting. Who knows if there's a serial killer out there just waiting for me. Furthermore, I guess I should assume that all White women are liars and will blame anything on a Black man because she knows that she can put her children in a car and let the car sink in a Lake or whatever and then blame a Black man and no one think anything of it. Now, you explain that to me, you tell me about the world and why it's so messed up. I appreciate different opinions and I appreciate people sharing their personal struggles and successes, however, I do not appreciate when you tempt to generalize Black men and lump them into a category. Now, is that really fair. Now, kind of jumping back to why we are so proud to Black women and to be apart of our certain Sororities. I am a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated. The first Greek lettered Sorority, by and for Black women. I am proud to be a part of this sorority and proud that there are several prominant, distinguished women of color in my sorority. I am proud that I am a part of something so great and this gives me pride to see many successful, well rounded Black women. I am a 2nd year Law Student and just looking at the constitution itself, and looking at history and tradition, the US never had a history of accepting any Black people. The Constitution was not written with any Black people in mind,remember we were not citizens then. So, if you ask me why am I proud to be a Black woman, I sit in a society who is not accepting, only tolerant of my being. And tolerance is not what we want.. We are proud of where we have come in such a short time. And even today, people want to sugarcoat the way things truly are and the way this world works and the things that this country decides to call values. Nothing was made with AFrican Americans in mind. So, why you sit and wonder why we need to be strong Black women, until you can walk in our shoes, I guess you would not understand. However, you should be proud to say you are a White woman. I wonder why most of you do not, not becuase you are afraid of being called racist. That should be the last thing. You worry about slavery and say you never owned slaves or anything, you didn't have to. As long as you are still BENEFITING from oppression of others, if you are, then apprantely it is your own so-called guilt. For the most part Black people do not blame all White things for everything and we do not have to always go back to slavery. However, Slavery is something that should never be forgotten and that is something that I believe people try to do. I do not mean to continue and ramble on, as you can tell I am a Law student and will become an attorney . But Alabama, you sound very angry and bitter. And with all due respect, you should be very bitter against those INDIVIDUALS who were disrespectful to you. But please, don't try to take it out on the entire group. You say you never owned slaves and so forth, well we all did not disrespect you either. This is just food for thought....And of course, if I forgot to include anything, be sure that I will be back on this message board .. and to my fellow Sorors, represent!!!

[SilverTurtle]

AARGH!

I have yet to read a single post in which the author stated that it's okay for any GLO or individual to be racist, intolerant, etc. Nearly everyone seems to agree that we can only benefit from both interracial organizations and cooperation between organizations that are one predominant race vs. another race.

And then everyone here b*****s about how traditionally BGLO's do this, or traditionally white GLO's do that. Or how because of what their ancestors did, they're labeled... blah, blah, blah.

Yes, the U.S. has a terrible history of racial issues. And gender issues. And even religious issues. And it is absolutely true that these things directly affect the present.

But WE are responsible for changing the direction of history & steering the present & the future in a positive direction we can be proud of.

If you look at the Greek system & see a great divide between races, (which I do) and you want to CHANGE that, why don't you try & understand each other, INVITE each other to your activities, participate in charity work TOGETHER?


Here's some starters:
If you're in a traditionally BGLO, invite black, white, Jewish, etc. GLO's to your next Step Show. And if they don't "get it", take time to educate them. If you're holding a Martin Luther King, Jr. Day event, do the same. Invite others to participate, and EDUCATE EACH OTHER. (Likewise for any GLO, not just BGLO's; that was just my example).


If you're holding any kind of social event/mixer, etc. invite ALL of the GLO's on campus, not just those of the same race.

Get EVERY GLO involved in a campus-wide event that celebrates AMERICAN heritage; like an outdoor barbeque where jazz, dixie, rock n'roll, etc. is the music & entertainment. (Jazz is the most American music we have).
Or an Around-the-World Party (not the drinking game) to raise money for charity: Have each GLO choose a country/region of the world. Set up booths on campus & decorate appropriately for your country. Charge a couple dollars admission to students, faculty & the community. Each GLO serves up cuisine frome their respective country AND shares bits of information about the country with visitors to your booth. LEARN TO RESPECT OTHER CULTURES.


Some day we will be able to say to our children & grandchildren
"It was different back then. People didn't understand that even though we have different backgrounds, we're all equal. You're lucky to grow up in a time when all men & women are treated with the same respect".
Don't you want to be part of a generation that makes that possible?

[AKAtude]

At the college I graduated from, we held an annual Greek Week. A traditionally black sorority/fraternity was paired with a traditionally white sorority and fraternity. We held different events during the week such as a parade, skit night, a non-alcoholic mixer night, sporting events, and several other things to earn points during the week.
Everyone worked together on their projects and it created a lot of unity among all the greek organizations as well as friendships.

As a result, members attended events held by other organizations and accepted invitations to parties, step shows, etc. This also helped in eliminating the misconceptions that people had about other organizations.

[Lil' bit]

Silver turtle, I think you missed my point. My point was not to separate the GLO's or BGLO's. My point was directed at the individual who directly started talking about Black people and why we have to say we have Black pride and the such. However, although BGLO's were traditionally founded by and for Blacks, that does not mean that we do not have members who are not Black. Thus, I am not encouraging the separation of the races, yet I was responding to the individual who spoke of trying to keep her organization all White. I was responding to message about having White pride and being called a racist. The individual was somewaht off of topic, thus my response was somewhat off of topic. However, my response was directed at that individual and letting her know why we, as African Americans do have pride in these organizations that were started at a time when we were not allowed in other organizations. I do see the value in the co-mingling and the acceptance of other members in our groups. However, when we have Rush or other events we do not explicitly outlaw others and only include Blacks. But one point I would like to make is that although we are supposed to be a society where we are all treated with the same respect, what is the reality. You saId that we should be happy to be in a society where we are all treated with the same respect.. Yes, I am happy to be in the US and would not want to be anywhere, but I think it's a little naive to believe that this is a society where we are all treated with the same respect. That's just the reality of it. And, thus we always have to refer back to history to make a point and in trying to further the progress of this country. Therefore, we can not ignore the past in recreating the future. The past is very important in the dealings that we have today and in the future.. Now, that does not mean we have to LIVE in the past. But we do have to look at the past. However, I do appreciate your suggestions and that is what is needed in order to try to work things out and make the issues not so Black and White. People always talk about the problems but never have any suggestions, therefore I commend you with your suggestions. I just hope that you are actually acting on your suggestions..


[This message has been edited by Lil' bit (edited December 13, 1999).]

[Lil' bit]

Silver turtle, I am confused. Are you saying that it is ok to be a racist? I thought that was what you said? Or if I took it the wrong way, let me know..

[A PHInatic]

First and foremost, all these backhanded comments going on in here are just plain ridiculous and uniformed. I think all know what they were and we don't need to continue to stoke that fire. Secondly, you should be proud of your background no matter what ethnicity you are. I know that I am proud to be an African - American woman and that doesn't make me a racist nor does it make someone racist if they are proud of being Asian, Caucasian, Latino or any combination of these. Any percieved racism is a result of that person's own guilt or the others ignorance. That being said, I will answer the original topic at hand.

I was one of only two Blacks in my sorority, and I recieved a lot of pressure from Black organizations on my campus to pin drop or not rush at all. In fact, initially, I didn't even want to rush because I thought I had nothing in common with any of the women who belonged to a sorority. My best friend encouraged me to come out and although she did not make it and I did (that was pretty bad), I came to see how great sisterhood is no matter what the color of your skin.

I had a wonderful experience in my sorority and I would not change it. I may have been only one of two Blacks, however, the sorority as a whole was pretty mixed with all ethnicities. I can only speak for my campus but, diversity is growing and we can only benefit from it. In fact, our greek system is growing which is great since so many others are getting the axe by their schools or their rush numbers are declining. One of the fraternities we just added is a traditionaly Latino frat. but they allow any man that wants to rush to be a part of their brotherhood.

I have to say I am in total agreement with Lil Bit had to say in her earlier posts (well said and good luck with law school! you go girl!). To add to that I would say that everyone needs to make the choice that is right for them. If a sorority or fraternity bases their membership on what race someone is, they do not understand the true meaning of sisterhood/brotherhood and perhaps should not be a GLO at all.

[GregFIJI]

OK, people, lets stop the bitchin. We all know the issue here, and if people decide to have an ethnic gap in their GLO, then fine. I would be hesitant to call that group racist, though, because of the ramifications that go along with using a term like that. Everyone is going to have differing opinions here, and at some point we have to agree to disagree.

If you want your GLO to be race-specific, then do that, and don't feel like you have to go along with people on this board telling you otherwise. If you want your GLO to be ethnic, then do that and don't dog on groups that don't feel the same way.

I think that if you take a look at why there were black fraternities/sororities founded, then you would understand that it is OK to have a race (and gender) specific group. If a black person calls someone non-black a racist, then they should understand that by using that term they are also racist...because their race also has GLO's like ohters do. The same goes for white people calling other groups racist...don't think I am only using black people as the example here.

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Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not, nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not, unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not, the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "Press OIn" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

[pink bunny]

A PHinatic hello, i have a couple of questions for you as i did not attend a predominately white university. No one else need reply thank you. 1. why did you choose to join the particular sorority that you are a member of versus say Delta or Sigma Gamma Rho. 2. When you graduate does your sorority have graduate chapters across the country for it's members to continue in community service and fellowship with their sisters? Thank you.

[SilverTurtle]

Lil'bit

My post wasn't directed at your post, it was directed at every Greek that's here.

To clear a couple of things up:

I didn't say that we live in an equal society, I said someday, if we are PROACTIVE & teach others, that we WILL be able to live in that kind of society. I also stated that we DO need to look at the past.

No, it's NOT okay to be racist, and I certainly didn't meant to state or imply that. I'm not sure where you got that from, but sorry if that's how anything came across.

As for following my own suggestions, some my chapter did, some they didn't. I'm now an alumnae, so I obviously don't have direct involvement anymore, but from what I have seen & heard, it sounds like they are continuing to participate in positive events, etc.

FYI, my Fraternity is co-ed (it wasn't always, it started out as a women's frat, but about 1976 that changed), and has members of many races. We value individuals for what they have to offer.

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Phi Beta Fraternity for the Creative and Performing Arts.
http://homepages.go.com/~phibetaphichapter/index.html

[vtqt79]

ok I was reading this whole "conversation" as you will call it, going on within this message forum. I don't want it to sound like I am "going off" on anyone here but I just have to say a few things. I am a proud african-american woman, who comes from a long line of proud african-american women.

And when I came to college rushing or going out for a sorority was the last thing on my mind. Then I transfered school. Not knowing but a handful of students on a college campus of 25,000 is not fun let me tell you. So when I entered this university in the Fall of 98 one of this first things I did was joined a sorority. And the reason why I joined was to get to know more people outside of my close friends I had at school. Now you might be thinking that it would have been a tradtionaly black sorority, but SHOCKER it wasn't. I joined Alpha Chi Omega, and let me hit you with another shocker, I am THE FIRST Blackwoman to come into our Panhellenic System and I am also a Charter Sister to my sorority. yes I got the looks, and I even knew some ladies in Delta, Sigma, AKA, etc...but it didn't stop me, and at first I was ashamed, I thought of de-pinning, but then what would that prove? That I wasn't fit to be a black woman on this campus in a tradtionally white sorority? I'm sure that some of my pledge sisters were uncomfortable about the sitituation as anyone would be.

But my point here is that I am just as proud to say I am a STRONG black woman who happens to have 85 sisters that love me and accept me for who I am. And to let you know where I am coming from, at my school the majority of the students are white and only 13% are African-American. On a campus of 25,000 that is not a very big percentage and to come out on top and still hold my head high and wear my letters that I love so dearly round campus and not be affected by what others think is the best feeling in the world. And anyone whom ever may disagree with me or has a problem with it should take a long look in the mirror and sit in judgement of themself before casting judgement upon others who have stood out and made it.


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[This message has been edited by vtqt79 (edited December 14, 1999).]

[Lil' bit]

Silver Turtle, the reason I thought you say it's ok to be racist was because you started off by saying you have yet to read a post where it stated it was ok for a GLO or an individual to be racist or intolerant. I don't know if that's what you meant and I'll reread to make sure that's what I read, but that's why I thought you said it's ok to be racist. I also saw your post in the Alpha Kappa Alpha forum and I replied.. No you did not sound hostile.. You said you are an alumnae. Does that mean your sorority/frat does not have a grad chatper. Have you ever thought of being a charter member of a graduate chapter where you are located. I know that Alpha Kappa Alpha, Delta Sigma Theta and other BGLO have graduate chapters..

[SilverTurtle]

Lil'bit

What I meant by "i'm yet to hear anyone say it's okay to be racist..."

was that it seemed apparent to me that we all agreed that it ISN'T okay. But I didn't see anyone offering solutions to change the obvious problems we have.

Sorry if it sounded otherwise!