My advice to "nice" guys . . .for dating girls

[James]

This is some of my generic advice to nice guys or even just guys that have been out of the dating scene for a while.

I will write this in parts . ..

Part 1. Don't be afraid of the Pussy.

The problem:

Whenever you like someone there is a certain amount of tension or anxiety . . our hearts beat faster, we feel nervous.

The more we like them, or the more attractive they are, the more we tend to feel that way. This shoots us in the foot and makes it much harder to talk to girls we like.

Especially if you haven't been dating for a while, or are not used to being around really good looking girls. I see plenty of guys that could go out with much better looking women but they are actually intimidated by them. Strange eh? But true.

So step one for nice to guys is to desensitize themselves to women by talking to good looking girls in a highly sexual but controlled environment: Strip clubs.

Yes I Said strip clubs. Strip clubs are a great place for guys to go and practice some of their social/sexual skills on good looking women.

So your assignment is to start going once or twice a week to strip clubs with some friends. Bring dollars. Talk to the girls. Make sure you pick a strip club with hot girls not skanky ones.

Keep going until you can go on your own and talk to the girls without your friends anywhere in sight.

If you can get to the point where you can have a good conversation with some naked girl, or girl wearing sexy lingerie thats sitting on your lap, or better yet giving you a lap dance, you won't have any problem talking to a pretty girl in most social situations.

[James]

Part 2. Learn how to flirt even with girls you don't like.

In order to really register on a girl's radar you have to be interesting. Some guys do it by being extra agressive or assholeish. Some guys do it by being stupid. The best way to do it is by learning to be flirty . . all the time.

The reason you want to incorporate being flirty as a basic part of you personlity is because its hard to just turn it off and on when you like someone.

Again it comes back to that tension people feel when they meet someone they like or are very attracted to. If flirting doesn't come naturally there can be a tendency to clam up in conversation . . which makes you boring.

Also if you are a natural flirt you will attract girls you didn't even notice which gives you a broader base to pick from.

There are books on flirting. There are internet web sites about it.

Your trick is to start practicing on girls you don't like and are not attracted to. Practice until it becomes natural. Practice at the strip club with the naked girl sitting on your lap. Practice till its secons nature.

[Lindz928]

Originally posted by James
Keep going until you can go on your own and talk to the girls without your friends anywhere in sight.

James, sweetie. You know I love you. You often give very good advice. Here is MY advice in response to this teeny tiny statement:

MEN: DO NOT GO TO THE STRIP CLUB BY YOURSELF! That is creepy and gross. Please do not ever become that guy who goes to the strip club alone. Strip clubs are find when it is a group of guys just out having a little fun.... and by that I mean, not there to get all turned on by the girls. Strip clubs can be fun in a mixed group of guys and girls. Guys who go to strip clubs alone.... No.

Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled thread. Thanks James.

[James]

Part 3. Practice dating.

Its funny, we seem to practice everything. Everything. Sports, we even take prep courses for Tests etc.

The one thing we don't practice for is human relationships. Especially the most important human relationships, the romantic ones.

So here is how nice guys should practice for it.

Date girls that you are not that interested in.

I know a lot of guys that have done it.

Date girls you don't feel that attracted to. Practice talking to them. PRactice asking them out. Practice being charming. Practice showing them a good time.

Who knows, you might really start to like them.

It also helps if you practice with more than one girl at the same time.

There used to be a word for this . . it was called dating. Or social dating. Where you went out with girls socially without the intention of getting serious.

The advantage is that you get a wider range of experience with more girls, you learn to be better at showing girls a fun time, and also you learn the difference between what different girls like or don't like.

[valkyrie]

James, I think that if someone is so socially retarded that he needs to go to strip clubs to "desensitize" himself to women and "practice" flirting and dating by flirting and going out with women he doesn't really like, he's never going to get anywhere.

Dating isn't easy for every guy and you know what? There are plenty of women out there who LIKE guys who aren't all smooth and flirtatious and who haven't "practiced" interacting with other humans. Your advice assumes that all guys should fit a certain mold -- and this is where I think it's dangerous. I'd rather find a guy who might be a little awkward talking to me if he thinks I'm hot than a guy who's really good at having a conversation with some naked woman giving him a lap dance -- and by the way, of course strippers are going to be nice to you when you're paying them -- isn't gaining confidence by doing that really, I don't know, fake?

I've never been impressed by a guy who wants to show me a good time or who is polished at small talk and the like. For me, attraction is about more than that -- it's physical, of course (and in that case is either there or it isn't and there's nothing you can do about it) but beyond that, it's about how we connect in ways that transcend mere social skills and the like.

I'm not even sure if what I'm saying makes sense. I'm sure there are guys who would benefit from following your suggestions, but I'm trying to address the guy who may lack confidence in himself and his dating abilities but who doesn't think your advice is quite right for him -- just be yourself and cultivate your own interests and who you are. In time, you'll find someone who thinks you rock even when you are a little shy or unsure of yourself.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by valkyrie
James, I think that if someone is so socially retarded that he needs to go to strip clubs to "desensitize" himself to women and "practice" flirting and dating by flirting and going out with women he doesn't really like, he's never going to get anywhere.

Dating isn't easy for every guy and you know what? There are plenty of women out there who LIKE guys who aren't all smooth and flirtatious and who haven't "practiced" interacting with other humans. Your advice assumes that all guys should fit a certain mold -- and this is where I think it's dangerous. I'd rather find a guy who might be a little awkward talking to me if he thinks I'm hot than a guy who's really good at having a conversation with some naked woman giving him a lap dance -- and by the way, of course strippers are going to be nice to you when you're paying them -- isn't gaining confidence by doing that really, I don't know, fake?

I've never been impressed by a guy who wants to show me a good time or who is polished at small talk and the like. For me, attraction is about more than that -- it's physical, of course (and in that case is either there or it isn't and there's nothing you can do about it) but beyond that, it's about how we connect in ways that transcend mere social skills and the like.

I'm not even sure if what I'm saying makes sense. I'm sure there are guys who would benefit from following your suggestions, but I'm trying to address the guy who may lack confidence in himself and his dating abilities but who doesn't think your advice is quite right for him -- just be yourself and cultivate your own interests and who you are. In time, you'll find someone who thinks you rock even when you are a little shy or unsure of yourself.

Yes. Aaaaand I find the strip club idea really sort of creepy. If I met a guy that acted anything like this thread is describing, I'd run far, far in the opposite direction. Granted, there are a lot of girls who like that kind of guy, so you probably WOULD attract girls. Just know that not every girl will react the same, and there will be plenty of women who find this stuff pretty skeezy. You SHOULD be able to turn off your "flirting" switch or you could end up doing far more harm to your game than good -- if you're interested in a girl and she's interested too, but you keep flirting with both her and her friend? Most girls, barring the wildly insecure ones, are going to turn their backs on that.

Any thread in which a man purports to teach men what women want is bound to end up full of pretty horrible advice.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally posted by Lindz928
James, sweetie. You know I love you. You often give very good advice. Here is MY advice in response to this teeny tiny statement:

MEN: DO NOT GO TO THE STRIP CLUB BY YOURSELF! That is creepy and gross. Please do not ever become that guy who goes to the strip club alone. Strip clubs are find when it is a group of guys just out having a little fun.... and by that I mean, not there to get all turned on by the girls. Strip clubs can be fun in a mixed group of guys and girls. Guys who go to strip clubs alone.... No.

Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled thread. Thanks James.

Uh yah, it is definitely CREEPY.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Any thread in which a man purports to teach men what women want is bound to end up full of pretty horrible advice.

Very well said. Contrary to some people's belief, not all women want the same thing.

[kddani]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Any thread in which a man purports to teach men what women want is bound to end up full of pretty horrible advice.

Lol, very true. Plus what makes this particular man so well qualified to give such advice?

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by kddani
Plus what makes this particular man so well qualified to give such advice?

OH NO YOU DI-INT!

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Yes. Aaaaand I find the strip club idea really sort of creepy. If I met a guy that acted anything like this thread is describing, I'd run far, far in the opposite direction. Granted, there are a lot of girls who like that kind of guy, so you probably WOULD attract girls. Just know that not every girl will react the same, and there will be plenty of women who find this stuff pretty skeezy. You SHOULD be able to turn off your "flirting" switch or you could end up doing far more harm to your game than good -- if you're interested in a girl and she's interested too, but you keep flirting with both her and her friend? Most girls, barring the wildly insecure ones, are going to turn their backs on that.

Any thread in which a man purports to teach men what women want is bound to end up full of pretty horrible advice.

Look, it's fine and wonderful that you fine young ladies don't fit this particular mold and wouldn't 'fall' for this type of guy - guess what? You're not exactly a representative sample, nor would any of you describe yourselves as anything resembling the 'average' girl. Besides that, it's well and good to say that you'd prefer the bumbling-yet-honestly-nervous cat to the ultra-smooth one . . . but the issue is even working some men into the position to become the bumbler, and not just "that guy across the bar or down the hall."

You're also applying too much value to the advice James is proposing - the strip club advice, when you remove the negative connotation that the actual strip club holds, probably represents one of the few actual chances men have to step into socially uncomfortable situations with no real reprocussions for failure.

[Jestor]

I have to add here that I don't agree with the strip club suggestion. Not from any sense of morality or creepiness or anything like that. I just find it fundamentally flawed.

See, at least to me, I have no problems chatting up girls in a strip club. They're just professionals doing a job and nothing more. There's nothing arousing or erotic about strip clubs to my mind, so it's a completely different situation from what a bloke faces in the field so to speak.

[Lady Pi Phi]

I think the issue with the strip club is that they really aren't full of extremely beautiful women.
Have you been to a strip club lately. Most of the women are rather quite average. The advice, is still flawed.

[Lindz928]

Originally posted by KSig RC
probably represents one of the few actual chances men have to step into socially uncomfortable situations with no real reprocussions for failure.

Um, yeah cause they're getting PAID to act like this guy is the coolest thing they have ever spoken to. It is just not representative of what he will actually encounter in the real bar scene.

This guy goes and schmoozes the dirty strippers just fine, and they all act like they are interested and he is certain that they are all over him.... Then he tries to go to a real bar and the chicks there aren't gonna pretend that they find him interesting. He will get shot down over and over again- I mean after all, he IS that creepy guy who goes to strip clubs alone.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Lindz928
Um, yeah cause they're getting PAID to act like this guy is the coolest thing they have ever spoken to. It is just not representative of what he will actually encounter in the real bar scene.

This guy goes and schmoozes the dirty strippers just fine, and they all act like they are interested and he is certain that they are all over him.... Then he tries to go to a real bar and the chicks there aren't gonna pretend that they find him interesting. He will get shot down over and over again- I mean after all, he IS that creepy guy who goes to strip clubs alone.

No, actually you're completely missing the point. The point is NOT that the guy is 'practicing' for a real-world scenario, as much as he's getting over his initial fear of even being in a situation with a girl. The fact that she's naked and interested - to the point of being overly so, in fact - is indeed the most important thing.

Many "nice guys" are paralyzed by fear or self-doubt. What causes these fears? Well, it's a fear of rejection, it's discomfort in social settings, it's the fact that girls are soft and smell good, it's a variety of things. To overcome this paralysis, the guy has to face these fears, and assuage that nervousness.

He's not actually practicing 'running game' on strippers - for the very reasons you state, it's not going to be representative. In fact, I noted this very phenomenon by stating "no real chance for negative reprocussions," which we can sum up as 'failure.'

Instead, he's practicing not being a pansy ass, and choking down those fears and becoming a participant instead of an observer. The blatant nudity, the 'stripper smell,' the fact that everything is completely over-the-top (including the stripper's reactions) means that the guy has even more to shove down into the pit of his stomach.

My point is not that this is such fantastic 'practice' because it simulates real-world situations in such exacting detail - it's that there simply aren't many substitutes for the 'real thing' to allow these guys to overcome their fears, and the strip club might just be the craziest (and thus somewhat effective) one.

None of this includes or precludes the guy being a creep - that's independent of the strip club. Guys that are creepy were creepy before the club, and will be creepy after, but not necessarily because. Does that make sense?