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Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.


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  #1  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:30 PM
ChioLu ChioLu is offline
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Can white people sing the n-word? UNH sorority in trouble

University of New Hampshire Alpha Phi on video singing Kanye West/Jamie Foxx song:
http://www.tmz.com/2017/09/21/unh-so...t-gold-digger/
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  #2  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:42 PM
TLLK TLLK is offline
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To use this word to antagonize or degrade another person-no I don't believe that anyone from any racial/ethnic group should use it in that manner. To sing the published lyrics of a popular song that include this word-I don't think that this should be an issue. Is everyone expected to ignore its use in original versions in literature or historical documents?
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:01 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Since TMZ is too stupid to tell me:

Was this part of a public performance or a privately recorded video? If the former, you should probably realize that if MTV doesn't use the word, you shouldn't either.

If the latter, maybe you need to stop recording every blessed thing you do and just live life...because when you record everything you get into situations like this. And again, if MTV doesn't use the word, you shouldn't either.

TLLK - do you mean if people are reading Huckleberry Finn aloud in class or something? I would guess that in that environment it would open up a dialogue.
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2017, 04:22 PM
PhilTau PhilTau is offline
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No. They can't.
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  #5  
Old 09-21-2017, 06:01 PM
TLLK TLLK is offline
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Quote:
TLLK - do you mean if people are reading Huckleberry Finn aloud in class or something? I would guess that in that environment it would open up a dialogue.
Yes that is exactly the context that I was envisioning, but to be honest I have not seen an original version used in a classroom for decades. I did witness a furious debate at Long Beach Polytechnic High School in a sophomore English class back in the early 1980's. The majority of the students (who were African American) did take exception to the use of the word in the novel. During the discussion their instructor who was also the head football coach, did point out that he heard his AA players using the word on a daily basis and that they even tolerated its use by their white, Asian, and Hispanic teammates. (They all used it to describe themselves as a team.)
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:50 PM
sigmadiva sigmadiva is offline
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
To use this word to antagonize or degrade another person-no I don't believe that anyone from any racial/ethnic group should use it in that manner. To sing the published lyrics of a popular song that include this word-I don't think that this should be an issue. Is everyone expected to ignore its use in original versions in literature or historical documents?
I've read your comment over and over, and I feel that you are contradicting yourself.

If it's never okay to use the N-word, then it is never okay to use the N-word. NO MATTER WHO SAYS IT!!

If you (the general you) know and are aware of the meaning of the N-word, and just because you hear someone else use it, no matter if they are Black, White, Asian, or Martian, does not mean it is okay.

And, I think when White people hear Blacks use it, you always get the excuse 'Hey, they say it all the time, so can I!"

Again, no.

But, with that being said, let me try to explain it like this:

Say you have a brother and/or sister. When you all were kids, sometimes you would fight and argue and maybe even call each other names, like stupid. You love each other, you have a strong family bond, but sometimes you all would still get mad at each other. So, you have your fight, call each other names, then cool off and go back to being friendly and loving like nothing ever happened. At the end of the day your strong sibling bond keeps you together.

Now, let's say you are at a bar and by accident you bump into someone, causing that person to spill his drink. They get mad and call you all sorts of names, like stupid, and he wants to fight. You did not mean any harm but he just keeps calling you stupid and want to fight. A total stranger you don't know keeps insulting you to no end. You feel bad that the drink was spilled, but he won't let it go and after a while you get offended.

When Blacks use the N-word with each other, there is a tolerance for its use due to a shared cultural experience/history.

When Whites use the word, there is no shared cultural experience or history. The historical use of the N-word by Whites has been used in the context of insult and to demoralize a Black person.

The meaning of the N-word has not changed.

And for the use of the N-word in literature written years ago, that was the accepted word at the time. So, in the historical context that the work was written, I personally don't have a problem with it. At that time, Blacks were seen as a second class citizen at best and less than human at worst. Now, though, that is not the case, so the use of the N-word is really useless.
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  #7  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:09 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Sigmadiva, thank you for responding and explaining. I guess I am just thick headed, but I have to be honest: I do not understand why it is okay for anyone to use the n-word. But then, I don't understand why some women refer to each other, in groups, as "my bitches". Is that a similar instance?
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:16 PM
sigmadiva sigmadiva is offline
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Originally Posted by FSUZeta View Post
Sigmadiva, thank you for responding and explaining. I guess I am just thick headed, but I have to be honest: I do not understand why it is okay for anyone to use the n-word. But then, I don't understand why some women refer to each other, in groups, as "my bitches". Is that a similar instance?
You're welcome.

Yes.
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2017, 09:47 PM
QueenD QueenD is offline
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I don't use this word, but I think that there is one appropriate context for uttering it - the example of reading it aloud while studying Huckleberry Finn or a similar literary work with a group where it would be normal to read portions of the book aloud.

Huck Finn doesn't include this word on accident. It's there to demonstrate the culture of the time and help readers understand the treatment that was doled out to African Americans in that place and time. I've heard people argue that the word should be replaced in Twains work and I vehemently disagree. many people only begin to understand racism, sexism, and other isms well when they relate to a story, and sanitizing literature does not aid in that process.
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  #10  
Old 09-22-2017, 01:08 PM
TLLK TLLK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmadiva View Post
I've read your comment over and over, and I feel that you are contradicting yourself.

If it's never okay to use the N-word, then it is never okay to use the N-word. NO MATTER WHO SAYS IT!!

If you (the general you) know and are aware of the meaning of the N-word, and just because you hear someone else use it, no matter if they are Black, White, Asian, or Martian, does not mean it is okay.

And, I think when White people hear Blacks use it, you always get the excuse 'Hey, they say it all the time, so can I!"

Again, no.

But, with that being said, let me try to explain it like this:

Say you have a brother and/or sister. When you all were kids, sometimes you would fight and argue and maybe even call each other names, like stupid. You love each other, you have a strong family bond, but sometimes you all would still get mad at each other. So, you have your fight, call each other names, then cool off and go back to being friendly and loving like nothing ever happened. At the end of the day your strong sibling bond keeps you together.

Now, let's say you are at a bar and by accident you bump into someone, causing that person to spill his drink. They get mad and call you all sorts of names, like stupid, and he wants to fight. You did not mean any harm but he just keeps calling you stupid and want to fight. A total stranger you don't know keeps insulting you to no end. You feel bad that the drink was spilled, but he won't let it go and after a while you get offended.

When Blacks use the N-word with each other, there is a tolerance for its use due to a shared cultural experience/history.

When Whites use the word, there is no shared cultural experience or history. The historical use of the N-word by Whites has been used in the context of insult and to demoralize a Black person.

The meaning of the N-word has not changed.

And for the use of the N-word in literature written years ago, that was the accepted word at the time. So, in the historical context that the work was written, I personally don't have a problem with it. At that time, Blacks were seen as a second class citizen at best and less than human at worst. Now, though, that is not the case, so the use of the N-word is really useless.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on the topic. I'll take it into consideration.
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  #11  
Old 09-22-2017, 08:43 PM
JonInKC JonInKC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilTau View Post
No. They can't.
Oh, Ok.
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  #12  
Old 09-23-2017, 05:34 AM
naraht naraht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmadiva View Post
When Blacks use the N-word with each other, there is a tolerance for its use due to a shared cultural experience/history.
My issue here is essentially the "Fresh Prince of Belair" situation (or if you are someone who watches TV now, "Black-ish".)

Will Smith gets to use it, but does Carleton? And to go to the goofiest real life example I can think of, the children that Madonna has adopted from Malawi?
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Old 09-29-2017, 03:21 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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What amazes me is who can and who cannot SAY THE N WORD?

Is this anything like who can Kill Blacks or Who Can Kill COPS?
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  #14  
Old 09-29-2017, 04:01 PM
DTD Alum DTD Alum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naraht View Post
My issue here is essentially the "Fresh Prince of Belair" situation (or if you are someone who watches TV now, "Black-ish".)

Will Smith gets to use it, but does Carleton? And to go to the goofiest real life example I can think of, the children that Madonna has adopted from Malawi?
Yes. They can all say it. They're all black.

Just like how my sister-in-law will say, "Going out with my bitches tonight!". Vulgar, sure, but it's an expression of camaraderie and reclaiming a derogatory word. But if I, as a man, ask her "are you going out with your bitches tonight?" she'll be offended, for obvious reasons.

Or if a country boy says, "let's go out tonight, redneck style!". But if a California city guy like me says, "man you're acting like real rednecks tonight!", even in a positive tone, they're going to be offended, for obvious reasons.

It's really not that complicated.
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  #15  
Old 09-29-2017, 10:49 PM
Sen's Revenge Sen's Revenge is offline
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Originally Posted by DTD Alum View Post
Yes. They can all say it. They're all black.

Just like how my sister-in-law will say, "Going out with my bitches tonight!". Vulgar, sure, but it's an expression of camaraderie and reclaiming a derogatory word. But if I, as a man, ask her "are you going out with your bitches tonight?" she'll be offended, for obvious reasons.

Or if a country boy says, "let's go out tonight, redneck style!". But if a California city guy like me says, "man you're acting like real rednecks tonight!", even in a positive tone, they're going to be offended, for obvious reasons.

It's really not that complicated.
Thank you. It's really not.
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