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  #16  
Old 06-06-2000, 05:50 PM
Discogoddess Discogoddess is offline
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Eclipse:

Point well taken. Actually, people shouldn't be talking about how they pledged, not if they're being discreet. Only the people with whom you shared the experience should be privy to that information. But, you're right, people romanticize and run their mouths.

I think the reason why today's greeks still participate in hazing/pledging is because there was never a moratorium on intake, just pledging. So say, in my case (spring 1990), we simply had a line the next spring, and continued along with what had been done before, as everyone was still sorting everything out (grad, undergrad, etc.)with the new system. A moratorium of several years would give orgs. time to devise a workable pledge system, train people, and put it into place. Trying to do that with the current crop of folks, many of whom are basing their pledge process on what was told to them, without explanation, is just futile.

DG
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  #17  
Old 06-06-2000, 06:29 PM
dirtyharry
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WUT UP EVERYBODY! I'VE BEEN AWAY FOR A BIT BUT I HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO READ SOME OF YOUR POSTS ON THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC.

PLEASE PARDON MY FRANKNESS, BUT I'LL SAY IT AGAIN IF I HAVEN'T SAID IT BEFORE, WE NEED TO STOP ACCEPTING THE BLAME FOR ALL THE NEGATIVE STUFF (PARTICULARLY HAZING) THAT OCCURS IN OUR ORGS. WHY DO I SAY THIS? WELL FROM MY EXPERIENCES AND FROM THE EXPERIENCES OF OTHERS I KNOW IN VARIOUS ORGS, THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN MEMBERSHIP KNOWS THE DEAL BEFORE THEY EVEN STEP UP.

NOW IS IT WRONG TO "BEAT SOMEONE DOWN"? YES. IS HAZING ILLEGAL? YES. DO SOME MEMBERS GO OVERBOARD IN THEIR TACTICS? HELL YES! WHY DOES IT OCCUR? WELL PARTLY BECAUSE OF CHAPTER TRADITIONS, BUT IN LARGE PART BECAUSE "OLDHEADS" DON'T SEE PEOPLE BEING "MADE" ANY OTHER WAY. ONE OF THE FINE LADIES ON HERE QUESTIONED HOW YOU STOP AN OLDHEAD FROM RUNNING YOUR SET. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR OTHER ORGS BUT IN MY FRAT (MY CHAPTER) WHEN AN OLDHEAD FROM YOUR CHAPTER COMES YOU DON'T WANT TO STEP ON HIS TOES.

NOW I'VE NEVER SEEN ANY OLDHEADS GO OVERBOARD AND ALL THAT CRAZY MESS, BUT I HAVE SEEN SOME BRING THAT OLD SKOLL FLAVA. *RULE OF THUMB AS A DP, YOU NEVER LET SOMEONE FROM ANOTHER CHAPTER "HAZE" YOUR LINE.* IF AT ANY POINT I FELT THAT A BRO. WAS GOING OVERBOARD THEN MY HUMAN CONSCIOUS WOULD INTERVENE AND DEAL WITH THAT MAN.

ALSO TOO, LET ME SAY A LOT OF "PROSPECTS" KNOW, EXPECT, AND WANT TO BE PLEDGED! MANY PEOPLE WILL NOT SEEK YOUR ORG. IF THEY ARE CONSIDERED PAPERMAKERS. THAT DOESN'T GIVE US REASON TO PLEDGE THEM HARD, BUT IT'S A FACT.

BEFORE I END LET ME SAY THIS, I LOVE MY FRAT AND THE BRO'S WHO MADE ME. I LOVE THE BRO'S I'VE MADE AND THEY LOVE ME. IF I HAVE A SON AND HE WANTS TO GET DOWN W2ITH MY FRAT., HONSTLY I'LL HAVE RESERVATIONS, BUT I'LL WANT HIM MADE JUST LIKE ME AND THE OTHERS WHO MADE ME. IN SUPPORT OF MY FELLOW NUPE (YO YO MANDINGO!!!) SOMETIMES A LITTLE WOOD DON'T HURT NONE...
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  #18  
Old 06-07-2000, 02:05 AM
prettygyrl prettygyrl is offline
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WELL, I DO NOT ABOUT A LITTLE WOOD BUT YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT PROSPECTIVES WHO WANT TO BE "PLEDGED OR MADE" THAT IS WHY I STARTED THIS FORUM TO LET THEM KNOW THAT TAKING A BEAT DOWN DOES NOT MAKE YOU MORE TRUE TO YOUR ORG THAN ANYONE ELSE. I AM A PROSPECTIVE AND I KNOW THAT I DO NOT WANT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT A BEAT DOWN FROM NO ONE. IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT "OLD HEADS" OR ANYONE WOULD WANT TO PUT THAT ON SOMEONE. I MEAN WHATS GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO PUT THEIR HANDS ON YOU. I HAVE SAID BEFORE I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PLEDGING BECAUSE I KNOW IT CAN BE DONE WITHOUT GETTING HIT. IF I WAS GREEK AND GOT BEAT UP WHILE ONLINE I WOULD NOT WANT SOMEONE TO GO THROUGH THAT JUST BECAUSE I WAS DUMB ENOUGH TO. THATS JUST LIKE ME SAYING THAT IF I WAS IN A RELATIONSHIP AND GOT MY ASS KICKED, THAT I WANT ANY WOMAN THE MAN IS WITH TO GET BEAT UP CAUSE THAT IS HOW I WAS DONE. THATS NOT RIGHT. I WOULD NOT WISH THAT ON ANYONE. MY MOTHER DO NOT HIT ME NOR GIVE ME A LITTLE "WOOD" AND NO ONE ELSE IS EITHER. SO DOES THIS MEAN THAT I WOULD NOT LOVE MY SORORITY AND BE ACTIVE IN IT? I THINK NOT! I WILL ATTEMPT TO PLEDGE COME NEXT SCHOOL YEAR AND I WILL DEAL WITH THE MIND GAMES AND YOU KNOW "STUFF". AS LONG AS NO ONE HITS ME I WILL BE ALL GOOD!
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2000, 09:22 PM
shalom shalom is offline
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If you allow some one to put you in a situation where they will whoop on your ass for the sake of sisterhood- then you are
IGNORANT!! Women who allow these things to go on join the sorority for the wrong reasong...they do it to BELONG!! "Hell #1's getting her wood so so will I"
Only if you lack self-esteem and self-pride will you allow this to happen. It is sad when we take our aggression out on each other like this. Nothing is worth gettin a beat down over, if you feel in your heart it is wrong. People need to think.
There is nothing wrong with challenges. A person should be able to look back on the pledge process and say that was an experience...not all good...not all bad. But I've learned something. That is what it is supposed to be about, but if you get some psychotic mental case as a prophyte than a beat down is what you will get. Be smart in all that you do. Nothing is worth me losing my letters over and more prophytes should think about that. Why take the chance of disgracing something you claim to hold dear in your heart.
Ladies interested in joining sororities...BE SMART
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  #20  
Old 06-07-2000, 10:15 PM
tretre
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Hello,
I want to respond to the person that had the conversion with the mother who's daughter was being hazed. First, let me say that hazing is definitely taken to an extreme level in today's Greek life. There has to be a line drawn. You just can't go around beating people down. I will say that being part of a Greek organization is not for everyone. Why? Because you have to go through a process that entails sacrifice and hard work. If you are paper, you have basically walked in on what others have pledged and worked hard for. That isn't fair. Anything in life worth having is gained by hard work, not by having it given to you, or in this case, being paper. If the daughter has stated how she felt by saying that she doesn't want to be paper, although it is very hard to do, the mother should leave situation alone because her daughter is an adult. Personally, being "paper" is a direct insult to me because it is saying that I didn't work for this, I just walked in. I think that is an insult to all Greek organizations in America that have struggled and worked hard for their organization while pledging and after intiation. If you had a choice of being paper or going through something that will make you appreciate what you have once you get it, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU GO THROUGH SOMETHING. DON'T BE A PUNK, AND BEING PAPER IS DEFINITELY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS.
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  #21  
Old 06-08-2000, 07:54 AM
ManndingoNUPE ManndingoNUPE is offline
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With all due respect Shalom, just becuase you disagree with someone, don't ASSSSSume that what is right for you is right for them. We are all adults, and what ever I choose to do I do. Maybe it is the wrong decision for you, but hey I respect your views, all I ask is that you respect mine.

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  #22  
Old 06-08-2000, 11:24 AM
prettygyrl prettygyrl is offline
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Tre Tre......would I be a punk if i do not want to get wood? I do not mind going through "something" but not a fight! I would actually feel more like a punk if I allow people to jump on me and treat me like shit! Don't greeks orgs want a strong minded individual to be apart of there organization? Any "punk" can stand there and take or give a beatdown to another person. but it takes a STRONG minded person to stand up and try and make a change! Thats cool about your feelings about so -called "paper" pledgees, but what about the many people that HAVE went through the whole process and did not get in at the end is that really fair? What about those that go grad I beleive most grad chapters does not have the the same pledge process as collegiate. Does that insult you to?
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  #23  
Old 06-08-2000, 08:01 PM
tretre
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Prettygyrl,
I didn't say be a fool. We are all adults. Personally, if feel like my life is in danger, I'm riding out! See Ya! Consequently, you have to be able to decipher the situation because fraternities accept a more physical process because guys are physical. No you would not be a punk if you didn't want to take wood. I will admit, and I am not ashamed of what I went through.(hell would be a good description) I said I wasn't going to allow anyone to hit me in my face. I got hit in the face one time. Did I get hit in the face again? No Why? Because I was on point and I knew my history. I don't see the point in jumping on pledges and beating them down to the ground. That just plain stupid and portrays the behavior of Neanderthals.(is that spelled right?) Yes Greeks want strong-minded individuals. There is a difference in being strong-minded and ****y. As far a people pledging grad. I respect them because they are frat, but I can't relate to them. I feel insulted for people who walk in undergraduate chapters. Basically, it boils down to this. You don't have to do anything you don't want to. The purpose of the process is to take you to your lowest point and build you back up. You can't get that experience by not going through anything or not being treated like shit. Don't let something as trivial as this cause you not to become Greek. People are always making statements just to make them, and they really don't have an idea of what Black Greek organizations are about.(not you in particular)White Greek organizations have no idea about we are about so they don't understand, so if you don't know, why do you an opinion. A good lesson I learned during my process is, if you don't know what you are talking about, please be quiet because you could be misleading people because of your inaccurate statements (IFC & NPC moderators). Prettygyrl I commend you for talking about this and trying to get the facts. I encourage to think about pledging. It is a great experience that you will never forget.
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  #24  
Old 06-08-2000, 08:03 PM
tretre
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Please forgive me for my grammatical errors. I was in a hurry. I hope you could understand what I was saying. That was very unprofessional.
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  #25  
Old 06-08-2000, 08:24 PM
BurningSands BurningSands is offline
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Well Well Well, In my frat we don't beat the intakes down. We teach them the history of the bond. If and intake kan kross the burning sands then he will be well respected in the organiztion whether it's undergrad or grad. one still have to go through the process. I know some members in the org get kared away, but that when the intakes have to step up as one & not let it happen. That show unity(bond) among the group. If it's only one intake...well, the same thing. Be a man & step up...I know for my frat....."Many are kalled, few are chosen & the rest are just deaf. I think "my opinion" we should go back with how pledging use to be... in the open...or course still have your shops,but the future members see what they are about to get into. For me & my sands.....We are to pretty on our right & left to get beat down, but the wood was good. "My head is blooded"
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  #26  
Old 06-08-2000, 11:28 PM
prettygyrl prettygyrl is offline
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Don't worry tretre I will continue my quest into the sorority I want to be in no matter what. I have way too much respect fo rall the orgs to ever let somehing someone said keep me from trying to join. I live and learn and when I come arcoss something I haven't heard I try and research it. I know though that my experience will be different from than others and I know where to draw the line. Thanks everyone for their responses!
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  #27  
Old 06-15-2000, 09:12 PM
Omega Sis
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I must agree with pretty girl. I wasn't taking no beat down from nobody. My line sisters and I agreed from day one on this issue( some places you can't). Lucky for us, our chapter firmly believes that they don't want to be beat down and they won't do it to others. That does not mean we did not get seriously mentally challenged and were prohibited from doing certain things until we crossed. We had respect for our big sisters and we knew they were no joke, but there are ways to bond initiates without sending them to the hospital.
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  #28  
Old 06-23-2000, 10:18 AM
Manders Manders is offline
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I think that a lot of these responses were too focused on simply the physical aspect of hazing. don't get me wrong, there is nothing worse and more hippocritical than being beat by a girl or girls that claim to love you. But I feel the mental/emotional aspect can be just as bad if not worse. I remember hearing stories of other sisters in various sororities on campus STILL dealing with weekly weigh-ins, public humiliation such as having your fat circled, etc. Obviously a strong bond is not formed through abuse. Just remember though, hazers are compensating for something. These are usually the girls that never were very well liked or had some other kind of issue. Hazing becomes their opportunity to have control over other people. Personally, if an entire sisterhood was for hazing I would de-pledge in a minute. BUT if only some were hard core hazers, I may remain in. You don't need people like that and there's always going to be those few people you don't mesh with. No one gets a long with everyone. Moral of the story: stick up for yourself, don't be bullied, and de-pledge if you feel too bad about yourself! hazers are a certain type of person. Don't be that person! Instead, become the sister the pledges love and look up to because you treat them with respect.
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  #29  
Old 06-23-2000, 10:43 AM
pinkice9 pinkice9 is offline
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Just a little poem for ALL GREEKS to think about.

(Author Unknown)

"Paper"

Paper has provided the exsistance of life,
Your birth certificate, degrees, and pay check,But to prevent this term you break your neck,

Paper surrounds our very lives,
Paper allows you to have insight,

There are little things that can be accomplished without paper, Who made you GOD of the last decision of the creator,

The term paper can be turned into beautiful things, paper is what you make to purchase anything,

I uphold the term paper, because without it you are not a success, now who is the memeber of this organizational mess,

Judge me not because I am not a fool, but sh**, I think paper is cool,

Only Christ can judge my path and pave my way, He the only one that starts my day,

Open your eyes so that you can see, Paper is the envitable, it is me;

[This message has been edited by pinkice9 (edited June 23, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by pinkice9 (edited June 23, 2000).]
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  #30  
Old 06-23-2000, 10:54 AM
ManndingoNUPE ManndingoNUPE is offline
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For some reason, and correct me if I am wrong, but most of the people who keep saying that you shouldn't have to go through anything aren't even greeK. If it is not for you, then cool, just don't hate on those that want to. I will also have to disagree with TreTre. I feel you on everything else, but I would Never turn my back on a member of my fraternity. Paper, plastic, steal, whatever. I don't really like these terms. A true test of a persons luv, is how they conduct themselves after intiation. Any fool can take a beat down. Hell I can go out here in the street and take an ass whipping. But from what I been told, the purpose of pledging is to 1) create a bond of between the perspective members, 2) to teach them to be humble and never think yourselves better than others 3) to train them become leaders by use of various techniques both mental and physical. The leasons that a person learns through a "Process" can help them to deal with many different situations that they face in life. I have not been a greek that long, and I luv to talk to older bras that have been in The Bond for 20 or 30 years, becuase that is when you trully get an idea of what this is all about.

Peace and Luv
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