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  #16  
Old 07-22-2021, 06:57 AM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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And Delta Gamma's was originally "sponsor form." And that distinction was important to our founders as more personal and definitive.
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2021, 01:52 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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As I think about this, what I'm primarily reading is a concern that No Recs will not be possible if anybody can write a rec. Concerns that bad apples will get through? Is that an accurate assessment? Wouldn't that kind of communication still be possible? How often do chapters get those? If they got conflicting recs from different alumnae, was there a process to deal with that? What if there were 4 glowing and 1 "no way"? I honestly don't know how those situations were handled or how often they happened because the schools I worked with most closely rarely ever saw a rec, except for legacies, most of the time. I never in my 30 years of volunteering saw a No Rec come in.
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  #18  
Old 07-30-2021, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGDee View Post
As I think about this, what I'm primarily reading is a concern that No Recs will not be possible if anybody can write a rec. Concerns that bad apples will get through? Is that an accurate assessment? Wouldn't that kind of communication still be possible? How often do chapters get those? If they got conflicting recs from different alumnae, was there a process to deal with that? What if there were 4 glowing and 1 "no way"? I honestly don't know how those situations were handled or how often they happened because the schools I worked with most closely rarely ever saw a rec, except for legacies, most of the time. I never in my 30 years of volunteering saw a No Rec come in.
This raises another question in my mind.

If some sororities require rec letters for everyone (and I've written in the past how my chapter pencil-whipped them), but other sororities didn't, is there any evidence at all that the one which requires recs is in any way stronger or better or more "anything" than one that doesn't? Do we have any data at all? Sure, membership selection may consider (and I neither know nor care about someone's processes) the information on it against some set of measures, but certainly the hundreds of recs some places process makes this a cursory standard at best.

In my opinion, the only valuable rec is a "no" rec.
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  #19  
Old 07-30-2021, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AGDee View Post
As I think about this, what I'm primarily reading is a concern that No Recs will not be possible if anybody can write a rec. Concerns that bad apples will get through? Is that an accurate assessment? Wouldn't that kind of communication still be possible? How often do chapters get those? If they got conflicting recs from different alumnae, was there a process to deal with that? What if there were 4 glowing and 1 "no way"? I honestly don't know how those situations were handled or how often they happened because the schools I worked with most closely rarely ever saw a rec, except for legacies, most of the time. I never in my 30 years of volunteering saw a No Rec come in.
These are good points. I don't think we've seen a higher number of "Rotten Apple" members who would have been pre-identified by a No Rec, if recs were the norm around here. If we compared chapters in geographic areas where recs are de rigueur, to those where they're rarely seen, is there a statistical difference in the number of member terminations, standards hearings, etc.? In other words, do recs as pre-screening tools lead to fewer membership issues? Obviously, we have geographic areas where there hasn't been a drive to encourage them, and my feeling is that they're more of a tradition in certain areas than in others...and that many, many chapters that rarely see a rec are doing just fine without them. My two cents.
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  #20  
Old 07-31-2021, 08:42 AM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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In my decades of writing recs I have written a few no recs - maybe 3-4. All were definitely deserved and I was called on all of them to verify. One of them came thru twice.
As a recruitment adviser I had several good recs and a no on a girl one time. I called the no rec and eventually tossed it after the convo. Seems the families were next door neighbors who didn't get along for a reason that had nothing to with whether the girl would be a good member. it was all about the adults and not the girl.
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  #21  
Old 07-31-2021, 01:02 PM
DaffyKD DaffyKD is offline
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Originally Posted by AGDee View Post
As I think about this, what I'm primarily reading is a concern that No Recs will not be possible if anybody can write a rec. Concerns that bad apples will get through? Is that an accurate assessment? Wouldn't that kind of communication still be possible? How often do chapters get those? If they got conflicting recs from different alumnae, was there a process to deal with that? What if there were 4 glowing and 1 "no way"? I honestly don't know how those situations were handled or how often they happened because the schools I worked with most closely rarely ever saw a rec, except for legacies, most of the time. I never in my 30 years of volunteering saw a No Rec come in.
Back in the dark ages when I was an active collegiate member, we received 1 No Rec for a girl. The sister who wrote it was very detailed why she said No. There was a long list of problems and then she ended with, "and you should also be aware she is awaiting trial for attempted murder." Our collective questions was why wasn't she in jail and what was the school thinking letting her attend.


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  #22  
Old 07-31-2021, 01:17 PM
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Back in the dark ages when I was an active collegiate member, we received 1 No Rec for a girl. The sister who wrote it was very detailed why she said No. There was a long list of problems and then she ended with, "and you should also be aware she is awaiting trial for attempted murder." Our collective questions was why wasn't she in jail and what was the school thinking letting her attend.


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These days, googling her would probably give you that info! But I suspect those were the dark ages that didn't include the Internet!
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  #23  
Old 04-15-2022, 02:44 PM
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Bumped for interesting conversations on recs.
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  #24  
Old 04-15-2022, 03:41 PM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
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I just got a request today from someone who lives 3 hours away from me. I'm just so curious about that, because we do have alumnae in that area, so I'm not sure why she couldn't meet someone local to her. She contacted the Alumnae Panhellenic president in our town who gave her the contact information for the presidents of 5 different organizations - like a clearing house. Curious. On paper she looks amazing, and I'll be happy to talk with her, but I'll definitely be making it clear when I submit my notes that I do not know her personally. Every organization is different about who can write in support of a PNM. I know my org will take information from anyone - it's no longer really a recommendation letter for us - so I'm going to suggest that she find someone who knows her personally in her hometown to send information in, too, not just me.

AZ-Alpha Xi - that's a good idea.
Run262 - if there is a specific deadline, be sure to mention that to the rec writers.
To me, it's a red flag when someone from a city with an alum group reaches out that far. But most kids have no idea there's an alum group of anything in there town. I'd send her back to her hometown alum group.
Now, that group that won't write one without knowing here....I understand, but it wouldn't take much effort to inquire among one's friends and find someone who does know her. If I can find someone who knows the candidate and will be candid about their opinion, and I trust them, that's good enough for me.
That's how I write my recs because, at my age, I RARELY know any of the PNMs from my town.
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  #25  
Old 04-15-2022, 03:46 PM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
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Originally Posted by AGDee View Post
As I think about this, what I'm primarily reading is a concern that No Recs will not be possible if anybody can write a rec. Concerns that bad apples will get through? Is that an accurate assessment? Wouldn't that kind of communication still be possible? How often do chapters get those? If they got conflicting recs from different alumnae, was there a process to deal with that? What if there were 4 glowing and 1 "no way"? I honestly don't know how those situations were handled or how often they happened because the schools I worked with most closely rarely ever saw a rec, except for legacies, most of the time. I never in my 30 years of volunteering saw a No Rec come in.
In almost 50 years, I've written maybe 6 or 7 "no" recs.
But I've seen more when a bad apple could have been prevented from joining if the chapter had bothered to even half-heartedly tried to find a rec. Like the girl who stabbed another member...lots of info available....but there's always the girl who comes in with sterling recs and proceeds to attempt to bed the entire football team, and brags about it. No alum saw that coming.
Even with recs, you don't know, but it's still worth the effort.
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  #26  
Old 04-15-2022, 08:56 PM
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I've spoken about this before here, but my daughter and I were camp counselors years ago and there was a counselor who slapped the assistant director in the face and then dragged her nails on her. She later asked my daughter and me for rush recs!!

We no-recced her so fast, with details. The rec chairman of my daughter's group called our house for her but she wasn't there. She asked me to thank her because they had run a police check on the girl and she had a record for assault. (I guess the Scouts didn't check.)

Epilogue: the girl didn't get a bid and freaked out and the college president pressured the only group who didn't make quota to take her. A year later, another daughter was trying out for the dance line at that college and we asked one of the current members if they knew Mean Girl. She said yep, her group had been forced to pledge her, and she was kicked out a few weeks later for attacking another member.

And that, folks, is why we need no-recs.
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  #27  
Old 04-18-2022, 08:13 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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I've spoken about this before here, but my daughter and I were camp counselors years ago and there was a counselor who slapped the assistant director in the face and then dragged her nails on her. She later asked my daughter and me for rush recs!!

We no-recced her so fast, with details. The rec chairman of my daughter's group called our house for her but she wasn't there. She asked me to thank her because they had run a police check on the girl and she had a record for assault. (I guess the Scouts didn't check.)

Epilogue: the girl didn't get a bid and freaked out and the college president pressured the only group who didn't make quota to take her. A year later, another daughter was trying out for the dance line at that college and we asked one of the current members if they knew Mean Girl. She said yep, her group had been forced to pledge her, and she was kicked out a few weeks later for attacking another member.

And that, folks, is why we need no-recs.
But allowing recs from others does not preclude you writing a no-rec for someone like that. Even when you wrote that no-rec, the person may have received multiple positive recs from people who didn't know about that specific incident.
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  #28  
Old 04-18-2022, 08:19 PM
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There are chapters that don't allow any recs now, positive or negative. Of course, it has all just gone underground and people text each other.
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  #29  
Old 04-18-2022, 11:47 PM
AnchorAlumna AnchorAlumna is offline
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But allowing recs from others does not preclude you writing a no-rec for someone like that. Even when you wrote that no-rec, the person may have received multiple positive recs from people who didn't know about that specific incident.
All you can do is put the info into the chapter's hands.
What they do after that is their decision.
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  #30  
Old 04-21-2022, 11:24 PM
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I would love an updated list of who is doing what...traditional forms, self introductions, references/introduction forms from anyone including non-members, etc. I just got my first rec request tonight, and it's apparent that well-intentioned mom is about 2 years out of date on the current expectations/rec processes and isn't aware there have been changes for many groups.
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