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  #31  
Old 06-17-2022, 12:35 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna View Post
Along those lines, a Facebook group for PNM moms NOT at a specific college just posted something interesting.
Her daughter is going to a big university in the Northwest United States.
PANHELLENIC put this "disclaimer" in the registration materials.
<
"DISCLAIMER: The University of *State* Panhellenic Executive Board does not encourage the use of letters of recommendation or legacy status. We believe that the use of these resources creates an expectation that a PNM is guaranteed certain privileges during the recruitment process, when that is not true. Additionally, the use of these resources creates an added barrier to certain PNMs. The Panhellenic Executive Board acknowledges and does not condone the historic practices that have excluded women of color, those with physical limitations, those with different preferred pronouns, women of a lower socioeconomic status, etc. The use of resources such as legacy status or letters of recommendation perpetuates these exclusive practices, as they give preferential treatment in the recruitment process. The Panhellenic Executive Board strives to achieve a fully equitable Recruitment Process by not encouraging the use of these resources. The University of *State* Panhellenic Association practices a values-based recruitment process, which prioritizes getting to know PNMs personally, and not relying on information from outside sources that would be submitted through letters of recommendation.
If you are still interested in submitting a letter of recommendation or your legacy status, please see the following links....."
<
I mean.....how dare they dictate what every group does?
Well, see, the girls think that they can decree it, and are not corrected of their delusions by the Greek life advisor (who undoubtedly doesn't know a CPC can not dictate a sorority's membership criteria), and the PNMs and their parents have no clue about any of this, so they believe it.

This ranks right up there with the perpetual myth that if you SIP the computer spits out your bid card and you don't get a bid.
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Last edited by FSUZeta; 06-17-2022 at 12:44 PM.
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  #32  
Old 06-17-2022, 09:17 PM
PGD-GRAD PGD-GRAD is offline
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So the first time I read this, I read it as the GREEK LIFE OFFICE does not “…. encourage the use of letters of recommendation… “ because I wanted to read it that way I guess. But it’s the PANHELLENIC EXECUTIVE BOARD—young sorority women. I thought WTF??
Why would sorority women publish a narrative that’s at best misleading and is sure to cause disappointment and even bitterness during recruitment?

Why not word it differently, something like “….while letters of recommendation are certainly not required, any sorority alumna is still free to submit one to her particular chapter on the behalf of a PNM…”. or something like that?

I taught freshman comp. on the college level and heard and saw many animated conversations between young PNM’s regarding their experience during after recruitment…both positive and negative. As flawed our current fraternity world is, I was grateful that our rush is much more simple and drama-free!
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  #33  
Old 06-18-2022, 07:48 AM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Originally Posted by PGD-GRAD View Post
So the first time I read this, I read it as the GREEK LIFE OFFICE does not “…. encourage the use of letters of recommendation… “ because I wanted to read it that way I guess. But it’s the PANHELLENIC EXECUTIVE BOARD—young sorority women. I thought WTF??
Why would sorority women publish a narrative that’s at best misleading and is sure to cause disappointment and even bitterness during recruitment?

Why not word it differently, something like “….while letters of recommendation are certainly not required, any sorority alumna is still free to submit one to her particular chapter on the behalf of a PNM…”. or something like that?

I taught freshman comp. on the college level and heard and saw many animated conversations between young PNM’s regarding their experience during after recruitment…both positive and negative. As flawed our current fraternity world is, I was grateful that our rush is much more simple and drama-free!
Please see my post above yours.
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  #34  
Old 06-18-2022, 09:11 AM
PGD-GRAD PGD-GRAD is offline
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FSUZeta—Yep, I was responding to the original post and—alas—had not read every reply. And you’re right, the Greek Life Advisor probably does not understand or does not care about going afoul of each sorority’s membership guidelines. She (or he) wants EVERYBODY to get a bid; therefore, EVERYBODY will wind up happy, right?

None of this bodes well for the future of Greek Life period. Your take is right on. And I wonder if those 2 or 3 pandemic years of virtual rush and “online” bidding and even initiation helped to erase the importance of recommendations as well as the emphasis on scholarship and moral standing. Time will tell…
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  #35  
Old 06-18-2022, 10:52 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Let me clarify this for y’all.

The Greek/Panhellenic advisor is more than likely being forced by the school into publishing this on the website, as are the exec board. To make everything seem more diverse, equitable and inclusive.

If they really believed this and really didn’t want recs, they wouldn’t publish the addresses of where to send/email recs. They would make doing that as difficult as possible.
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  #36  
Old 06-18-2022, 02:01 PM
Cookiez17 Cookiez17 is offline
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The funny thing is placements rates are already pretty high. I had seen that Ole Miss, which is considered a super competitive SEC school, had a 95% rate, and other schools have similar in the 80-90's. They even say getting completely dropped is uncommon as is, and it will most likely be grades that get you cut.
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If I can get a bid so can you; a longer recruitment story
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  #37  
Old 06-18-2022, 07:54 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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I would like to know the retention rates (even just for first year students) for these high-placement schools. Several women have told me in recent years that they felt heavily pressured not to SIP and then when they got bids they didn't want, not to walk out of Bid Day or refuse their bids.

How many unhappy NMs don't even make it to initiation?
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  #38  
Old 06-18-2022, 09:53 PM
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honeychile honeychile is offline
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Originally Posted by carnation View Post
I would like to know the retention rates (even just for first year students) for these high-placement schools. Several women have told me in recent years that they felt heavily pressured not to SIP and then when they got bids they didn't want, not to walk out of Bid Day or refuse their bids.

How many unhappy NMs don't even make it to initiation?
THIS!!
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  #39  
Old 06-18-2022, 10:00 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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That goes back to the national organizations. There are always awards for making quota and/or total, but I have yet to hear of a GLO that gives awards for retention, either till the end of pledging or till the end of members’ college careers.
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  #40  
Old 06-19-2022, 08:22 AM
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honeychile honeychile is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
That goes back to the national organizations. There are always awards for making quota and/or total, but I have yet to hear of a GLO that gives awards for retention, either till the end of pledging or till the end of members’ college careers.
This would be well mentioned to each GLO, as it's more important to retain membership than to bid 1,000 women.
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  #41  
Old 06-20-2022, 07:00 AM
Gamma Xi Phi Gamma Xi Phi is offline
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I know many of us have seen changes within GLOs to make membership more inclusive and reducing barriers to potential membership, some of those general changes to some groups included removing legacy policies, and opening up the pool of membership to others who might have been previously excluded because of sexual orientation, gender identity, race/ethnicity etc...

Now I know there are differing opinions on these matters but I've been hearing talk in my circles that now GPA is a barrier to membership and perhaps there is a shift towards eliminating a GPA requirement?

I'm all for making Greek life more representative of the general population but honestly I just feel like throwing out a GPA requirement just seems a bit much, I'd be curious to see if others have been seeing anything similar or what thoughts the chorus might have.
GXP is a professional fraternity for artists and creators that was started on a college campus but has primarily a professional membership. Professional members do not have to have a college degree (although there are probably less than five who don't possess one).

Given that context, we still have collegiate chapters, and have made the decision that setting a national GPA requirement does not have value to us. Instead, our minimum standard is that students have the minimum GPA required by that campus for participation in campus activities. We value artistic aptitude, commitment to justice, and personal temperament more than grade point average, understanding that GPA is not just influenced by academic aptitude, but also mental health, adjustment to campus life, prior exposure and access, and in some cases, racist professors.

Chapters have the right to raise the minimum GPA in their local bylaws, so long as doing so doesn't create an arbitrarily small chapter size.
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  #42  
Old 06-20-2022, 08:42 AM
carnation carnation is offline
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As a long-time professor and teacher, here's what I will take into account regarding GPA and any kind of recommendations.

Do you have a low GPA because of something that happened quite a while ago and are you taking steps to bring it up? Because if said situation happened some time ago and you are still demanding mercy for it while not studying or going to class, then don't come to me. I have had students who thought I should pass them or even give them a high grade because of something that happened to them years before or because they have a bad situation at home.

Many Greek women have had requests for recs for PNMs who have very low grades. Usually, the requester says that the girl has had XYZ bad thing happen to her so please give her a rec anyway. Then half the time, we find out that it happened years ago and the girl has made no effort to change/study/do better. Why should I recommend someone for any situation who is just going to drag down the group GPA or group morale, or constantly announce that she should be excused for jerk (or worse) behavior because of (insert reason that gets lamer every time she uses it)?

RESILIENCE. Are you making strong efforts to climb out of your hole? Because sh___ happens in life to all of us, be it disease or tragedy or evil bosses or professors, and you will not get far in life at all if you refuse to try to bounce back; no one wants to give you a pass or recommendation if you're not showing signs of recovery and/or resilience.

Unfortunately, most students I've had who have come in with a low GPA don't change that. They haven't learned how to or cared enough to learn how to study, even though colleges have tons of people and ways to help them. Some can be found in bars late into the night. Others show up for their first mental health appointment, then never again.

And all of this is why minimum GPAs need to be retained...because if you think someone with a 2.0 high school GPA is going to explode into academic brilliance, think again. That person is dragging other factors into college with them.
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  #43  
Old 06-20-2022, 10:13 AM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Originally Posted by Gamma Xi Phi View Post
GXP is a professional fraternity for artists and creators that was started on a college campus but has primarily a professional membership. Professional members do not have to have a college degree (although there are probably less than five who don't possess one).

Given that context, we still have collegiate chapters, and have made the decision that setting a national GPA requirement does not have value to us. Instead, our minimum standard is that students have the minimum GPA required by that campus for participation in campus activities. We value artistic aptitude, commitment to justice, and personal temperament more than grade point average, understanding that GPA is not just influenced by academic aptitude, but also mental health, adjustment to campus life, prior exposure and access, and in some cases, racist professors.

Chapters have the right to raise the minimum GPA in their local bylaws, so long as doing so doesn't create an arbitrarily small chapter size.
But here we are talking apples and oranges, as your org offers membership to people in the creative arts only (most chapters being professional, not collegiate), while NPC, IFC, NPHC, and MCGLOs have members from a multitude of disciplines who are still in college. GPA for GXP would be a moot point for most members.
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  #44  
Old 06-20-2022, 10:36 AM
Gamma Xi Phi Gamma Xi Phi is offline
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Originally Posted by FSUZeta View Post
But here we are talking apples and oranges, as your org offers membership to people in the creative arts only (most chapters being professional, not collegiate), while NPC, IFC, NPHC, and MCGLOs have members from a multitude of disciplines who are still in college. GPA for GXP would be a moot point for most members.
The topic and original post said GLOs and we responded as such. That's fine if our situation doesn't apply to you, but it does to the topic.
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  #45  
Old 06-26-2022, 12:45 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
That goes back to the national organizations. There are always awards for making quota and/or total, but I have yet to hear of a GLO that gives awards for retention, either till the end of pledging or till the end of members’ college careers.
AST has an award for this - the Growth & Retention Excellence award - and it is given to both collegiate and alumnae chapters. Multiple chapters can win the award at Convention (which just ended today). I can't quite remember the minimum requirements to earn it, but the handful of collegiate chapters who just won were announced as consistently meeting quota, total, and each of their retention rates are at 100% or VERY close to it.
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