The Hazing Tradition

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Just a little historical aside - The War Between the States did not, alas, end up well for those who wanted to emphasize state's rights over centralized federal government. They were crushed by sheer numbers and resources. . .
( and NO - I'm not really continuing the analogy. I don't think . . . I don't know enough either way to be able to authoritatively say. But the analogy might not be the BEST if you are in favor of local chapter vs. nationals.)

SWTXBelle;
I agree with you.
I was just about the post a little different analogy that takes yours one step farther.
The chapters could be the Native-American Tribes/Nations during the War between the States.
Particularly if they go local.

[fantASTic]

The difference between the War Between the States and GLOs is that nationals and councils really do very little for us once we get established, besides the rules. I like being part of a national...but it is true that AST's nationals don't give us anything. We don't need it. But, I have seen struggling chapters ask their Nationals for help reorganizing for THREE YEARS....this chapter is now gone because their nationals would not help them and kept telling them "things will be fine! You'll be fine!".

The federal government, on the other hand, throws a lot of money and resources to states (highway money, anyone?).

[Day13]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

They were crushed by sheer numbers and resources. . .
( and NO - I'm not really continuing the analogy. I don't think . . . I don't know enough either way to be able to authoritatively say. But the analogy might not be the BEST if you are in favor of local chapter vs. nationals.)

Actually, the South wasn't crushed. They were defeated certainly, yes, but crushed is quite the hyperbole. Most of the victories come from the eastern side of the states (once again I will point out the SEC part).

And if you are in favor of local chapters (seceding) against their nationals it really is a good analogy in my opinion. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and now we have a Federalist government with shared powers between states rights and central government. If the locals talk to nationals about abandoning them they may be treated with disdain, but conversely, they might be able to get nationals to realize their problems they have with them.

/Analogy and History Lessons.
//Still not favoring one side or the other, just sparking discussion.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

The difference between the War Between the States and GLOs is that nationals and councils really do very little for us once we get established, besides the rules. I like being part of a national...but it is true that AST's nationals don't give us anything. We don't need it. But, I have seen struggling chapters ask their Nationals for help reorganizing for THREE YEARS....this chapter is now gone because their nationals would not help them and kept telling them "things will be fine! You'll be fine!".

The federal government, on the other hand, throws a lot of money and resources to states (highway money, anyone?).

Actually, I do not give a damn about the War between the States, it is a done deal so get over it!

Now getting back to the original topic and answering to this poster, yes, it does happen and so, you ask why?

It is called money.

LXA has a policy that there will be visitations by ELCs/Traveling Secretarys paid for by the Chapters. They are required to meet at least 2 times a year or semesterly. Many have volunteers only from the Alumni base in those states and areas.
After a while, they get burned out and just say screw it.

I caqn understand as I fought with My National for years about getting help and through 3 Executive Directors and finally the third heard the cry and snet people down, and now, we are growing with a new house.

You may PM me if you feel like chatting about this and see if I can give advice off of site.

[Day13]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Actually, I do not give a damn about the War between the States, it is a done deal so get over it!

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana.


That would be like saying Pearl Harbor is a done deal so get over it. You shouldn't read so much into what I was saying. It was an analogy that used historical facts. I did not say my opinion on the war. It's not like I referred to it as "The War of Northern Agression."

How could I get over something that I wasn't even fixated on emotionally in the first place? To top it off my family didn't even come over till after the civil war and when they did they came through Ellis Island. Pretty sure that I am "over" it.

Side note, I was often confused as to why so many people had negative thoughts regarding your reading comprehension and ability to form cognizant sentences. And I'll end this post the way it began, another quote, but this time from Mark Twain: "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Day13

Actually, the South wasn't crushed. They were defeated certainly, yes, but crushed is quite the hyperbole. Most of the victories come from the eastern side of the states (once again I will point out the SEC part).

And if you are in favor of local chapters (seceding) against their nationals it really is a good analogy in my opinion. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and now we have a Federalist government with shared powers between states rights and central government. If the locals talk to nationals about abandoning them they may be treated with disdain, but conversely, they might be able to get nationals to realize their problems they have with them.

/Analogy and History Lessons.
//Still not favoring one side or the other, just sparking discussion.

Given what the Southern economy looked like , I'd say "crushed" was a fair term. From a purely military standpoint, I see your point. Mine was simply that the analogy wasn't perhaps the best IF you were in support of local autonomy.

And it's true, Tom -"when ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise." So I'm happy for your bliss, Mr. Earp