On hazing

cashmoney · #1 09-30-2003, 12:09 PM

I don't understand how so many people can be complaining about hazing when joing a GLO. I went through two different types of hazing. The non GLO hazing was much worse than anything that happened to me upon being initiated into a GLO.

When I was 16 I became a lifeguard at the beach where I lived. They did all kinds of crazy stuff to us. We were made to run 4 miles with a dip in our mouths and we had to run side by side down the beach. Everytime we had to spit the spit would fly into the face or land on the person next to us. People were throwing up on each other from the dip, which then caused others to throw up and we had to run while all this was going on. We could not stop. There were a lot of things done to us. When people become lifeguards many people from the city come out to check us all out. The guys who were already in dressed us up in dresses, put white crisco in our hair and made it all spikey. Then they put skittles in our hair to make it have all different colors. This was while the people from the city were out watching us. On top of that, the older guys got cases of cases of eggs. With our hair all goofy, they made us take off our dresses and wear only a bathing suit. The they lined us all up and started throwing eggs at us, in front of all the people. We were all crouched down in a fetal position while being nailed with eggs. Some of the shit head lifeguards tried to really screw us and made hard boiled eggs and were throwing them. Those really hurt. I had welps on me for a week. Later that night we also had to do something else. The older guys had a girl, who was a total slut, and they were all having a tag team with her....a gang bang. We had to be in it too. I was 16 yrs old, I was scared to have a gang bang. I think it's was mainly because I didn't think I had the biggest penis being only 16 and all. That was just some of the stuff we went through. But it was worth it in the end. Lifeguards eat free at most places at the beach, never pay to get into any clubs and most clubs at the beach would give you free drinks all night long.
It was so awesome having so many guys being like brothers to me. To this day, when I go home, I still see many of them. I still get all the luxuries of being a lifeguard when I go home. And by having that bond, that was one of the reasons why I joined a GLO when I go to college.

When I got to college and joined a GLO, I thought the hazing was weak. Some guys were scared. I remember a few of them asking me in the dark "Whats going to happen to us?" My pledge class was the last of our chapter to have a hell week. I'm not going to spill what happened there, but it was nothing like the stuff I went through being a life guard. These days, there is basically no hazing in my old chapter, there might be pyschological hazing...but nothing physically like what we went through. And thats one of the things were I think it's messed up. I think hazing does create a bond, in a wierd way.

I also have a friend who went to West Point, the military school. The stuff done to him was literally out of this world. I couldnt imagine going through the crapp he did, and he's 2 yrs older than me. After finishing school at West Point, he came to my college and joined my chapter GLO. He too thought fraternity hazing is weak and should be how it once was.

What are some of your thoughts of it all? Is hazing really all that bad in a GLO, compared to the way other organizations haze?

Billiam · #2 09-30-2003, 02:25 PM

My fraternity doesn't haze. We don't even ask associates to pick up the phone if it rings.

I don't really understand why some organizations haze. I certainly wouldn't call someone my "brother" if he made me do things like the chew run. That's f-ed up.

EDIT: Censored myself, I swear like a sailor.

cashmoney · #3 09-30-2003, 02:34 PM

I know it is. And I was 16 yrs old!!!!!! Imagine some little kid going through all of that. At the time I didn't think I was a little kid, looking back I now realize how much I didnt know. At the same time though, it made me the bomb azz mofo with all the girls in my grade. They all wanted to date me because I was a life guard, straight pimpin. I got a lot of sex out of it. However, to this day I cannot stand to smell, dip, or even look at Copenhagen snuff. I get sick each time I'm around it.

Kevin · #4 09-30-2003, 03:55 PM

The fact is, there should be no hazing AT ALL.

From an organizational standpoint this is a no-brainer. How would you like your chapter shut down because the national org lost a huge lawsuit because someone in a chapter not even in your state let their hazing get out of hand?

It hasn't happened yet, but it very easily could. Lawsuits threaten to wipe us all out. If there was strong hazing, weak hazing, pseudo-hazing, whatever.. it should not happen.

cashmoney · #5 09-30-2003, 06:08 PM

Just deny all accusations. Simple. Do you really think that the rest of the chapter will spill their guts in a court of law just because one guy couldn't handle it?

AGDee · #6 09-30-2003, 10:03 PM

I would never respect or care for anybody who abused me, let alone feel "sisterhood" toward them. I don't think that sharing a traumatic experience (imposed by sisters/brothers) is grounds for true sisterhood/brotherhood. Can you just hear a husband or wife saying "Well, my spouse throws hard boiled eggs at me and makes me run while I chew tobacco but it just makes us love each other all the more"??? Or how about... "Gosh, I'm so close to my (biological) brother because he used to humiliate me in public".

That's just screwed up thinking.

Dee

Girlene · #7 09-30-2003, 11:37 PM

Where I went to school there was a sorority who had 2 pledge classes, if you will. One half that wanted to be hazed and the other didn't want to be hazed.

I was a legacy at this particular sorority and they weren't even in consideration for me because of what appeared to be a mess. Apparently the year before, there was action taken against the chapter for reported hazing incidents.

So their response was to divide the pledge class in two.

Hello?

I asked the women then who pledged why they would want to be hazed and for them, it was a test of mental and physical strength. It was also a tradition that they looked forward to.
They grew up hearing "war stories" and they saw it as a challenge and opportunity to earn their own battle scars.

On the same subject, there are men in fraternities who choose to be branded like cattle by a branding iron with their fraternity symbol on it. There are fraternity branding irons on Ebay!

Here's my question--is it hazing if they CHOOSE or DESIRE a certain kind of treatment? Obviously it is hazing if it's a written or unwritten requirement of membership. But what about those who want this?

Follow up: I spoke to some people who were hazed (and who went into it knowing there would be severe hazing). One said that "20 years later, I have not forgotton who did what to me. I secretly still harbor some animosity for those people." Another said that it wasn't the same chapter members who did the hazing--it was members from another chapter who came in for their initiation night who did the worst hazing and that's who they resent. Apparently this was designed so that there wouldn't be animosity within the local chapter.

An example of hazing they told me: The pledges had to lie on the floor in a row. A raw egg was cracked and placed in the first pledge's mouth. The pledge had to put it in the next pledge's mouth and so on. The last pledge had to spit the egg in a bowl.

(I was given permission to share what I did as long as the organization remained anonymous.)

I am glad I pledged AOII where pledgeship and initiation week were a pleasure! I got more presents for I-week than I did for Christmas that year!

MareImbrium · #8 10-02-2003, 01:41 PM

I have debating the whole thing about hazing for quite some time now. Is it considered hazing if you willingly do something that would be outlandishly ridiculous to some people? Girlene, I completely agree with the statement you made. And that one example you provided reminds me sort of a scene in this Japanese film called Tampopo. Except in that case it was just between a man and a woman who were obviously turned on by the whole thing. That entire movie was weird. Anyhow, I think the term hazing can be such a broad word sometimes. I know that my sorority doesn't haze. So where does one draw the line?

Kevin · #9 10-02-2003, 05:18 PM

The problem with hazing is that there's really no univerally accepted definition.

From organization to organization, standards are different.

Is it hazing? Check your organization's rules as well as those of your state.

hoosier · #10 10-02-2003, 05:32 PM

In these days, the colleges and the Natl. GLOs are immediately suspending any fraternity which is accused of hazing, or anything close (re: DU at Nebraska, suspended for a photo of two actives who traded swats and had blood red butts). The quick action is aimed at sending a message to other chapters who might be doing something similar.

The colleges and GLOs have paid out fortunes in a bunch of hazing law suits, and have got to get hazing under control.

If you do a Google News search for 'hazing', or look at www.badjocks.com, there are now daily cases of sports team, cheerleading, and band hazing and law suits.

Things we all did a few years ago can now get you sentenced to jail and a big fine.

IheartMATT806 · #11 10-04-2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
The fact is, there should be no hazing AT ALL.

But there is..and always will be. Kids dont learn or know any better.

desirethegreat1 · #12 10-04-2003, 07:00 PM

For example in Alabama if you are caught in any hazing related activity, you could possibly loose you finicial aid.

cashmoney · #13 10-05-2003, 02:42 PM

Well that doesn't mean crapp to most Greeks.

Kevin · #14 10-05-2003, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IheartMATT806
But there is..and always will be. Kids dont learn or know any better.

Possibly, but your statement that kids don't learn or know any better is a cop out.

Kids *can* learn and will even listen given the appropriate circumstances. Want proof? Just look at GLO's and how successful we have been at virtually (I said virtually) eliminating hazing in our organizations. Most of us here can say without doubt that our chapters do not haze. So why is it that there will always be hazing?

DeltAlum · #15 10-05-2003, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashmoney
Just deny all accusations. Simple. Do you really think that the rest of the chapter will spill their guts in a court of law just because one guy couldn't handle it?

If they're smart they will. Be honest, are you really ready to go to jail for something as stupid as comitting perjury?

I know that it sounds noble, but is it really worth a criminal record?

If you haze, you've already broken one law -- it doesn't make sense to break more.

And, from a moral standpoint, you've taken an oath to tell the truth.