"acting too white"

[hoosier]

Race to the Bottom--II
Here's an interesting story from News 14 Carolina, a local cable channel in Raleigh, N.C.:

Smart black students being accused of "acting too white" is an issue Triangle educators are debating at a youth and race conference this week.

Students say the stigma is keeping some of their peers from doing well in school.

Tenth grader Anais Guzman is on the honor roll. She says some of her peers see the achievement as acting too "white."

"They can get high grades but they don't want to because they'll be considered as acting white, so they put white people down," Guzman said.

This problem illuminates why the liberal worldview on race, while not entirely false, is several decades out of date. The idea that achievement is "white" and lack thereof is "black" is an ugly stereotype that no doubt originated in white racism. But the problem today isn't that whites believe it; it is that many blacks have internalized it and recast it as a point of pride.

As we noted yesterday, black adults are subjected to the trope of "acting white" as well--for espousing conservative political positions or joining the Republican Party. Thus the Democratic Party, which routinely racks up 85% to 90% of the black vote, has an interest in encouraging blacks to think of themselves as separate from the broader American population--a separateness that rests on pernicious notions of black inferiority.

- OP

[TristanDSP]

As someone who's been called "white washed" all his life (even though most of my friends back in the day were black (?)), I must say that, even though Filipinos still don't give me the benefit of the doubt to this day, that most of the reasons that younger minorities give for saying their own kind is "acting white" are completely flawed and ridiculous, so the only thing you can do is ignore it and concentrate on what your perspective is on it.

For instance, I was called WW because:

*I played soccer, not basketball (though I graduated HS 10-0 against 2 different Pinoys in 1 on 1 BBall)

*I was on the newspaper, not the yearbook (Because "Asians are all about the memories.")

*I didn't do "Filipino" things, such as get into imports, watch DBZ, play DDR....etc.

Again, flawed and stupid reasons. You just have to take a deaf ear to what these ignorant people are saying and just do your own thing, and do your best to live out what you think is the American Dream, not do what's expected of you because of your heritage.

I mean, excuse me for getting educated and trying to succeed up in this mofo.....just because I loves me my white women and am in IFC doesn't make me any less Filipino than Jose Rizal.....

But, this IS from the OP, so....why I even waxed on this I have no idea...

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by TristanDSP


*I played soccer, not basketball (though I graduated HS 10-0 against 2 different Pinoys in 1 on 1 BBall)

I thought soccer was an international thing.


I was once told to stop 'talking white' by a homeless man on campus. Thought it was really funny.

[Rollergirl2001]

This is exactly what piss me off. When will some black people learn that there are more than one image of black people?

On a personal note, when I was in sixth grade, I was teased in Girl Scouts for "talking too proper" and the troop members were all black. I went to a county school (90% white) that have high achievements while the rest of the members went to city schools that have poor acheviements. Some of my family members said that I talk like I'm from the north, although I have lived in the south all my life. I like the way I talk.

Here's some things that I have done that considers me to be "white":
-Went to a mostly white county school
-Talk Properly
-Made Honor Roll
-Made it into the Honors Program at University of Memphis
-Play softball
Now would I change my race to white? No way.
Am I Republican? Hell no.

I think that black people who tease smart black students are jealous. Jealously never gets anybody anywhere in life. If black people wants to do something that blacks normally don't do, then they should do it. Stand out!

Take a black girl joining a NPC sorority, for example. She joined because she felt what's comfortable for her and HER ONLY, not for anyone else. I don't want this to go haywire about what I said, but it's the truth.

Bottom line, there's no such thing as acting black. It about being YOU and doing things that YOU AND YOU ONLY that you want to do, regardless of your skin color.

[Exquisite5]

Can I just say I am sick of the phrases "acting white" and "acting black"?

I definitely heard that I "acted white," particularly in high school. I went to a magnet school and ran track and was a cheerleader at my neighborhood school because my magnet school didn't have sports. Well my neighborhood school was about 99% AfAm while my magnet school was like 40%. Also, my neighborhood school had about 30% of the kids going on to college and my magnet school had about 98%. So I was teased and called "prep monster" but it never made me want to assimilate. I was just like oh well, life goes on.

Now this could be because I was only at the neighborhood school for sports practice and didn't spend my whole day there, but I really didn't care. I knew who I was, what I was about and where I was headed. I didn't think I was better- I just knew I had a better futue.

I think growing up academically focused and AfAm in this world may, at present, single a child out for teasing, but the parents MUST do a good job of instilling a sense of self in the child. I additionally think, however, once a student realizes that there is no "acting black" or "acting white" he/she will be even better off.

As AfAms why do we buy into the idea that education and succes are only for whites? This idea is ludicrous. Clearly education is not just for white people, but the arguement simply underscores the need for more AfAm success stories. I may not like Condie's politics, but I am glad she is where she is, because clearly her skin is brown like mine and didn't get any lighter just because she is an academic achiever.

So I will teach my kids that when people tease them for "acting white" simply because they desire a better life and future full of education (the great equalizer) to use that as motivation to be another AfAm success story who can hopefully neutralize this awful idea by personally disproving it.

[Phasad1913]

I think that a lot of you who have posted are making too light of and/or are glossing over an issue that is much more deep and complex. Many of you used terms such as rediculous and ludicrous to describe the sentiment that achievement and academic success, among other things, equal acting white. Of course it is. However, the root of the sentiment has more to do with resentment and a rejection of the OVERALL white ways of life that black people have had to, or actually were forced to adhere to over the past centuries in this country. It isn't just being academically successful. When pretty much any and everything that is unique to your culture and who you are as a group has been shunned and down-right used against you by your own country and the majority population for the whole of the existence of the group in the country, the group, in general internalizes, as the article (if you want to call it that) mentioned, and resents those who shun.

When Kanye West made his comments about Bush during Katrina, I noticed on Fox News that the "commentators" were putting him down, or course, and one of them said "why are we even talking about anything that some rapper said anyway". I got really heated at that because I wondered, what does his being a rapper have to do with the legitimacy of his feelings on issues? Is he not an American citizen who has an opinion, while harsh and not what conservative Bush lover's wanted to hear" and out of anger spoke on it? That's what I mean by something being unique to our culture being dismissed by those of another culture. One area of rap is based on negativism, gangster rap. Not the entire area of music. But, those who are ignorant about rap and our culture completely dismiss it and dismiss those who proudly embrace it. Stuff like that causes resentment and instead of people bowing down to that kind of shunning and dismissal or belittling of things that mean something to us, people react differently.

I've said this before on this message board: What you have have in America are two totally different cultures and basically, two different countries functioning simultaneously. Often, the two never even really coincide. It's a result of centuries of abuse and mistreatment from the majority against the minority. That's the truth. The result is, and it was always inevitable, that the minority harbors a lot of resentment, especially when the lasting effects are felt everyday. So, when you hear young people acting out though their musical expressions, speech patterns, and what many whites have expressed to me at times, just plain old meaness toward them, that's a manifestation of the deep-rooted anger that many of us feel. It's just the way it is. I think that a lot of whites simply do not understand this and frankly do not have to try because, as it has always been here in America, they are in the majority, so their ways of life, their ways of looking at things, are always going to permeate throughout the society so those who are not in the majority who do not care to adopt those ways and are tired of being made to feel different throught the lack of attention and awareness based on who THEY are are naturally going to "rebell" in various ways and go against the grain.

Its a difficult phenomenon to articulate, but its dicussed quite often so I know what it is I'm TRYING to say. If there is anyone else who can jump in and add soemthing to make my point more clearly, feel free.

[annice22]

Originally posted by Phasad1913


I've said this before on this message board: What you have have in America are two totally different cultures and basically, two different counties functioning simultaneously. Often, the two never even really coincide. It's a result of centuries of abuse and mistreatment from the majority against the minority. That's the truth. The result is, and it was always inevitable, that the minority harbors a lot of resentment, especially when the lasting effects are felt everyday. So, when you hear young people acting out though their musical expressions, speech patterns, and what many whites have expressed to me at times, just plain old meaness toward them, that's a manifestation of the deep-rooted anger that many of us feel. It's just the way it is. I think that a lot of whites simply do not understand this and frankly do not have to try because, as it has always been here in America, they are in the majority, so their ways of life, their ways of looking at things, are always going to permeate throughout the society so those who are not in the majority who do not care to adopt those ways and are tired of being made to feel different throught the lack of attention and awareness based on who THEY are are naturally going to "rebell" in various ways and go against the grain.

I think you are correct in everything in your orignal post and my quote above.

[alphaxikt]

We just read an excerpt from a book for my "Educational Foundations and Issues" class - it is called "The Intersection of Cultures" - authors name is Spring. It presents the idea that the public educational system in the U.S. does not adequately serve the interests of many students who do not fit into the middle class, Eurocentric environment typical of a lot of schools. Spring discusses the idea of African American, Native American, and Mexican American resistance cultures that have developed as a response - one of the reasons that he gives for "acting white" being a bad thing in the eyes of young minority students is because succeeding in school may alienate students from their families and communities because the student must change to fit the dominate culture of the school.

[TristanDSP]

I know this isn't part of the topic, but what about other minorities like Asians and Hispanics like myself who've recieved the same treatment from his/her people? I don't feel like I should blame blacks or whites or that entire history for what happens to people like me, so where does that come in?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by TristanDSP
I know this isn't part of the topic, but what about other minorities like Asians and Hispanics like myself who've recieved the same treatment from his/her people? I don't feel like I should blame blacks or whites or that entire history for what happens to people like me, so where does that come in?

There are two Americas - white and black. Some may say you don't belong in either if you're neither.

-Rudey

[BetteDavisEyes]

This reminded me of a time when I was in my sorority & an member asked when I learned to speak English. I looked at her curiously & asked her what she meant by that. She then replied that my English was very proper and that I enunciated every syllable in every word so it was obvious to her that I learned English through books b/c English was not my native language. I then calmly informed her that not only was I born in the U.S. I was born and raised in South Central Los Angeles until I was 12 years old. She seemed genuinely stunned and apologized to me for her misconception but I had to ask myself if people have perceived me as being foreign born simply b/c I don't speak with an accent and I don't use slang. It's weird that you can also get ostracized for speaking correctly. Just b/c I am Latina and speak correct English does not mean I was born elsewhere and learned English through books.

[Phasad1913]

After having reflected on this topic even more since I last posted, I wanted to add one more point.

I think this issue is reflective of a phenomenon that, as I said, has its roots in history. However, I also believe that times and the phenomenon itself is changing. To use myself as an example, I can say that I have gone all the way up through the educational system, through public schools (except for college). Now, I am half-way through law school. I think its safe to say that I have and will achieve and be successful. I think I can remember maybe when I was younger a few kids saying something about I talk white or whatever, but nowadays, due to a number of regulatory and corrective measures taken by the nation and the society, the number of black Americans who are similar to me in education level and exposure to resources that allow us to develop our cultural, historical and ethnic awareness, is increasing. Therefore, there is less of a notion of our success being wierd or strange or evidence of our conforming or, to put it in the essence of this thread, acting white, because by the sheer numbers, we feel more comfortable in "our skin" and have others like us who are interested in achieving academically. The competition is not only between whites and blacks, thus, making blacks feel left out due to an unequal playing field, its now also between educated, successful blacks and other educated, successful blacks. This deminishes the sense of conformity.

[hoosier]

Ironically, commonly the worse public schools are in the inner cities.

It's also often true that these inner cities have huge commercial tax bases, and spend huge amounts on schools. (i.e. Atlanta spends more per pupil than any GA system).

It's also usually true that these school systems have school boards dominated (sometimes completely) by minorities.

These school systems usually have very strong teachers unions.

I wish they would get more results for the money spent.

[Exquisite5]

Originally posted by hoosier
This problem illuminates why the liberal worldview on race, while not entirely false, is several decades out of date. The idea that achievement is "white" and lack thereof is "black" is an ugly stereotype that no doubt originated in white racism. But the problem today isn't that whites believe it; it is that many blacks have internalized it and recast it as a point of pride.

As we noted yesterday, black adults are subjected to the trope of "acting white" as well--for espousing conservative political positions or joining the Republican Party. Thus the Democratic Party, which routinely racks up 85% to 90% of the black vote, has an interest in encouraging blacks to think of themselves as separate from the broader American population--a separateness that rests on pernicious notions of black inferiority.

- OP

Ya' know, I am re-reading this article and this time the quoted part stood out to me. This, I think, is completely true. I am an AfAm law student and a Democrat, but since I go to law school in DC and am a Texan I am one of the most conservate people in my school. I actually believe in welfare to work, using guns to protect private property, lower income and estate taxes, school vouchers and zero tolerance when it comes to fighting and weapons in schools

The more I study Critical Race Theory in particular, but just the U.S. political system in general, the more I reject the liberal lie that we AfAms need the great white government to save us. Now, don't sign me up for the Rush Limbaugh site yet, but I do think the liberal lie of the "great white savior" (which really is what big government equates too) is based in racism, but too many AfAm liberals are blind to this reality.

Again, I am not changing parties any time soon because I believe that while liberals try to hide their racism, conservatives proudly flaunt theirs and neither is a good option to me. I think it boils down to something hoosier, I believe it was, said to me in a post- neither party is good or evil. This is true, but I do think if its all based on racism- I'll take the one that at least tries to give poor black folk something. Now, I don't even benefit from such programs and as an attorney at a big firm I'll soon be taxed out of the wazoo to support them (and hate it), but I can't just turn my back. Nevertheless, I do think some conservative principles have use- such as vouchers, school choice and no state income tax (go Texas!)

[Tom Earp]

Last I knew, When A Person is cut or shot, they bleed Red, not Black White or Yellow!

Many times Inner City Schools are under fed with Funds is because of the GPAs and No Student Left Behind Crap!

They either do not want to learn or have parents who do not care. Take that for what it is worth.

Look at the %s of People who are into Drugs and not married. They only raise a s*it storm when a Certain Member of a Said Community is killed.

We as Greeks are somewhat Priviliaged with money enough to go to College and be on Site to discuss this.

If some of the do rightous People want to do something good, Get off of Greek Chat and do something for The People that You only talk about.