Smaller Groups-how can you make PNMs feel chosen?

[carnation]

I received a pm from a GCer who's a member of a smaller group on a big campus. Without outing her group, she wanted me to ask y'all how they could make PNMs feel like they were "chosen", not like they were all their group could get. She said that frequently they're in the position of having to ask back girls who have cut them and that frankly, a lot of girls who are crying at their prefs aren't doing it from happiness.

So GCers, how can they make their guests feel special and not let them think they're the "leftovers" in recruitment?

[KSUViolet06]

That's a difficult question, because in theory, PNMs should feel good about being invited to pref at any chapter (as opposed to not getting invited back anywhere at all). But we all know it doesn't work that way in the real world...

I'd suggest just being genuinely excited to have these women back. If a PNM is feeling bad about their invites, seeing that someone is happy to see them can sometimes make their day.

Also, the chapter should examine their own attitude toward themselves. PNMs can sense the negative vibes that result when a chapter doesn't think highly of itself.

[SWTXBelle]

I think one key would be for the individual who is rushing the PNM to make a special point of telling her that she is so happy to have another chance to spend with her - another opportunity to share the sisterhood that has meant so much to her.
HTH -

[Faith4Keep]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I think one key would be for the individual who is rushing the PNM to make a special point of telling her that she is so happy to have another chance to spend with her - another opportunity to share the sisterhood that has meant so much to her.
HTH -

Honestly I think this can backfire. After looking through the retro recruitment threads, many posters have had an active tell them the deal-maker sentence at pref, "I'm so happy you're here"...including myself.

However, if a PNM was forced to go to a party of a chapter that they didn't want to be a part of (to maximize their options) and they knew that this chapter is struggling for members... having a sister say "I'm so happy you are here" could make the PNM think "Well DUH you're happy I'm here-- you need members!!!". This would be especially true if the PNM did not rank the chapter very high.

Although I have not yet done recruitment on the other side, I think that one of the best tools that chapters used to get me to feel important was when they told me how I could contribute to the chapter. So many times recruitment conversations focus on the people- high schools, sports and activities, interests. And I'm not just saying "Oh you played volleyball? Well we have a great intramural program...!!!" I would say compliment the heck out of them, and tell the PNM how you could see her taking on leadership roles, inspiring younger members in the future, and seriously contributing to an already-fabulous organization!

Now, this may freak some PNMs out. But when the chapters I rushed talked to me about opportunities for me to participate in the chapter, I felt like I was a part of their chapter, I was just interviewing for how I would contribute. This also returns the focus to the PNM, and downplays any chapter activities that might not be so great (poor campus reputation, trouble with scheduling socials, not so great attendance at greek events...?).

But again, if you were to take this approach you would have to be very careful. There is a fine line between "You could really contribute and be a part of something great" and "We need you to be an officer because we don't have enough sisters to fill officer positions".

Another idea- although drastic- is to change the way you go about your pref ceremony. If the PNMs have not been interested in you all along, they are probably not going to be interested in candles, ritual, and sisterhood. So, my idea would be that when you match up PNMs with actives to make sure the actives don't go straight into "This is why I love my chapter" story. Have them repeat things from previous days- philanthropy you support, any good socials or events you have that the PNM might not know about... because more than likely the prior days the PNM hasn't even been paying attention. Doing this may give them the chance to re-evaluate your chapter and the PNM will give your pref ceremony a shot.

I think the idea of having them connect with a familiar face is also a good one- just make sure the PNM likes the active!

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Faith4Keep

Another idea- although drastic- is to change the way you go about your pref ceremony. If the PNMs have not been interested in you all along, they are probably not going to be interested in candles, ritual, and sisterhood. So, my idea would be that when you match up PNMs with actives to make sure the actives don't go straight into "This is why I love my chapter" story. Have them repeat things from previous days- philanthropy you support, any good socials or events you have that the PNM might not know about... because more than likely the prior days the PNM hasn't even been paying attention. Doing this may give them the chance to re-evaluate your chapter and the PNM will give your pref ceremony a shot.

If she's THAT far gone that you need to start from square one rushing her, you might as well not even count on seeing her at your house the next day, even if there is a bid card printed with her name on it.

[Faith4Keep]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

If she's THAT far gone that you need to start from square one rushing her, you might as well not even count on seeing her at your house the next day, even if there is a bid card printed with her name on it.

Not necessarily. I think by the time recruitment starts winding down, and you are left with chapters you weren't looking at joining originally, a PNM has to think if she still wants to be greek or not. I know that when this happened to me- when I got cut from 2 of my favorite chapters- I kind of had to say "okay, what's left?", and really look again at the chapters I had previously dismissed.

You're never going to get some girls back, but I don't think it would hurt to reiterate some things that were talked about in previous rounds so that the PNM can get a handle on the chapter before she completely dismisses them because she can't remember a darn thing from previous rounds.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Faith4Keep

Honestly I think this can backfire. After looking through the retro recruitment threads, many posters have had an active tell them the deal-maker sentence at pref, "I'm so happy you're here"...including myself.

However, if a PNM was forced to go to a party of a chapter that they didn't want to be a part of (to maximize their options) and they knew that this chapter is struggling for members... having a sister say "I'm so happy you are here" could make the PNM think "Well DUH you're happy I'm here-- you need members!!!". This would be especially true if the PNM did not rank the chapter very high.

Maybe alter that with "I'm so glad you came back - I wanted to ask you about that Sex Pistols bootleg you mentioned the other night." In other words, you're happy to see her as a PERSON, not just a potential member, and even if she doesn't pledge, you'll continue to be happy when you see her.

[UGAalum94]

Although it's much harder to do since they probably don't feel like they have the same about of control over who is coming back (they are likely inviting back more people than accept), if they could try to spend more time sharing the accepted party lists with the chapter far enough in advance and in a context where members can perhaps review their notes about who they met in the previous rounds, I think it would help.

You may already be doing this, and I apologize if I'm promoting something that has long been a staple of more computer based recruitments.

If every member knew which party the guests she had previous met (particularly the ones they had "picked up" and principally hosted) were going to attend, as a group you could really try to give the impression that your members were specifically looking for the return of the PNMs who are there. You could try to systematically build it in to the rush groups that as much as you could, you'd loop PNMs back for a few minutes to see the members who had meet them already to build on a sense of personal relationship and a sense that it's wasn't an accident that they in particular had been invited back.*

These next comments will seem sketchy in light of recent conversations in other threads, and I sincerely apologize for for the pettiness/sketchiness, but when we perpetuate the idea "quality over quantity is just an excuse for lazy recruitment" and "good groups always pick members who stick around for four years," we also affirm the tent talk that at least partially contributes to these groups staying smaller because we've basically openly said small equals bad. We don't even give the group members themselves much room to be proud of who they are.

*I think it's also going to help your PR on campus generally because even the PNMs who don't pledge your group are going to feel that they had a strong personal connection at your chapter, and if they have any self-confidence at all they can appreciate that people who liked and wanted specifically them to join might as a group have some good taste.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

I received a pm from a GCer who's a member of a smaller group on a big campus. Without outing her group, she wanted me to ask y'all how they could make PNMs feel like they were "chosen", not like they were all their group could get. She said that frequently they're in the position of having to ask back girls who have cut them and that frankly, a lot of girls who are crying at their prefs aren't doing it from happiness.

So GCers, how can they make their guests feel special and not let them think they're the "leftovers" in recruitment?

Did the sorority vote to invite these rushees back? Did these rushees have some good conversations with these women (in the sorority's mind, anyway)?

If so - then they WERE chosen!! Maybe the girls didn't choose the sorority, but the sorority chose them. Don't get hung up on the fact that they're "stuck" at your chapter. You don't know what they're feeling inside. Maybe they're a triple legacy to XYZ and got cut from XYZ, but it's not that they dislike you, it's that they have to tell their 98 year old granny they aren't going to be an XYZ.

However, if the chapter is being forced by whoever have you in authority to invite back members that everyone hated and that the chapter DID cut - then that's another matters entirely. I don't care what your advisor says, I don't care what national says, I don't care what Panhellenic or the rho chi or your rush chair says. If no one in the chapter could find anything redeeming in a woman, DO NOT HAVE HER BACK. It creates feelings like Carnation's above scenario. If this woman is such a hidden jewel, she can come to a COB event or two and maybe she'll make a better impression.

I think some women get so distressed about voting in general (especially if they're in a smaller chapter) that they let people off too easily. You're not voting on whether to ever talk to this woman again or to shun her from the campus or something. You're voting on whether you're going to spend a large part of your college years with this person and possibly live with her. If you don't want to do that, then don't vote to the contrary.

Just because your chapter is smaller - don't settle for crap. Your crap may be someone else's shining star, and vice versa. Invite and cultivate the women at rush that you like for themselves, not just because they're cute or what have you.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Did the sorority vote to invite these rushees back? Did these rushees have some good conversations with these women (in the sorority's mind, anyway)?

If so - then they WERE chosen!! Maybe the girls didn't choose the sorority, but the sorority chose them. Don't get hung up on the fact that they're "stuck" at your chapter. You don't know what they're feeling inside. Maybe they're a triple legacy to XYZ and got cut from XYZ, but it's not that they dislike you, it's that they have to tell their 98 year old granny they aren't going to be an XYZ.

However, if the chapter is being forced by whoever have you in authority to invite back members that everyone hated and that the chapter DID cut - then that's another matters entirely. I don't care what your advisor says, I don't care what national says, I don't care what Panhellenic or the rho chi or your rush chair says. If no one in the chapter could find anything redeeming in a woman, DO NOT HAVE HER BACK. It creates feelings like Carnation's above scenario. If this woman is such a hidden jewel, she can come to a COB event or two and maybe she'll make a better impression.

I think some women get so distressed about voting in general (especially if they're in a smaller chapter) that they let people off too easily. You're not voting on whether to ever talk to this woman again or to shun her from the campus or something. You're voting on whether you're going to spend a large part of your college years with this person and possibly live with her. If you don't want to do that, then don't vote to the contrary.

Just because your chapter is smaller - don't settle for crap. Your crap may be someone else's shining star, and vice versa. Invite and cultivate the women at rush that you like for themselves, not just because they're cute or what have you.

I got the impression more that the chapter did really want these women but since a certain segment of the women who were coming back were only coming because of rules about maximize options, the sense of mutual selection was off.

Carnation's OP wanted to know how they could make these women, who they really do want, feel as chosen at their chapter as the women at the 100% return rate chapter feel.

And when release figures let you invite a lot of people back but only some of them accept, it IS complicated to communicate that they are there because you really want them, not because they were so undesirable elsewhere that no one had any choice.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I got the impression more that the chapter did really want these women but since a certain segment of the women who were coming back were only coming because of rules about maximize options, the sense of mutual selection was off.

Carnation's OP wanted to know how they could make these women, who they really do want, feel as chosen at their chapter as the women at the 100% return rate chapter feel.

And when release figures let you invite a lot of people back but only some of them accept, it IS complicated to communicate that they are there because you really want them, not because they were so undesirable elsewhere that no one had any choice.

Umm - talk more to the girls who have good attitudes and be just polite to the girls who have bad attitudes?

I know that's not a very PC answer, but honestly, there's not really much else you can do. If Susie the XYZ groupie is only at your party because she thinks XYZ might open bid her and she knows she has to maximize options to do that, even though there's a snowball's chance in hell it wil happen, and she's sullen or rude, I don't see why anyone should have to suffer through that. Spend time with the girl who's happy to be there.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Did the sorority vote to invite these rushees back? Did these rushees have some good conversations with these women (in the sorority's mind, anyway)?

If so - then they WERE chosen!! Maybe the girls didn't choose the sorority, but the sorority chose them. Don't get hung up on the fact that they're "stuck" at your chapter. You don't know what they're feeling inside. Maybe they're a triple legacy to XYZ and got cut from XYZ, but it's not that they dislike you, it's that they have to tell their 98 year old granny they aren't going to be an XYZ.

However, if the chapter is being forced by whoever have you in authority to invite back members that everyone hated and that the chapter DID cut - then that's another matters entirely. I don't care what your advisor says, I don't care what national says, I don't care what Panhellenic or the rho chi or your rush chair says. If no one in the chapter could find anything redeeming in a woman, DO NOT HAVE HER BACK. It creates feelings like Carnation's above scenario. If this woman is such a hidden jewel, she can come to a COB event or two and maybe she'll make a better impression.

I think some women get so distressed about voting in general (especially if they're in a smaller chapter) that they let people off too easily. You're not voting on whether to ever talk to this woman again or to shun her from the campus or something. You're voting on whether you're going to spend a large part of your college years with this person and possibly live with her. If you don't want to do that, then don't vote to the contrary.

Just because your chapter is smaller - don't settle for crap. Your crap may be someone else's shining star, and vice versa. Invite and cultivate the women at rush that you like for themselves, not just because they're cute or what have you.

Really, if you HQ says you have to invite as many women as you are allowed, I wouldn't go against that.

[UGAalum94]

If it's okay with Carnation, maybe we should open the question up this way:

At every size and strength of chapter, what do you do to attract your top girls, your rush crushes, your legacies, other people's legacies that you want to poach from their legacy chapters, and any other PNM that you have designated as a VIP?

What the the techniques that you use within your chapter to make sure that these girls are going to have an especially great experience at your chapter?

Sure we all know that you rush every girl as well as you can, but you don't take chances with the GLO's international president's daughter or your founder's great-great- granddaughter do you?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Really, if you HQ says you have to invite as many women as you are allowed, I wouldn't go against that.

HQs do this constantly - I've read about it multiple times on GC - and I don't know why they all keep thinking "throw a ton of poo at the wall and see what sticks" is an effective recruitment strategy.

As a wise woman said, it's easier to be forgiveness than ask for permission. Cut them if they're cuttable and keep them off. PERIOD.

I mean, if your HQ is OK with you rushing and bidding women with zero social skills who no one in the chapter clicks with, whose grades are in the toilet and who, most importantly, want NOTHING to do with your chapter....yeah, good luck with that. Just because Pi Pi chapter is over quota and total every year since 1950 and Mu Mu is just as consistently under both...this means Mu Mu should give bids to anything that moves and Pi Pi can cut women if they don't have a 4.0 and 80 zillion Lily dresses? Sorry, but no. Plus, what if you give invites/bids to all these women and they keep saying no? That gets arond and makes your reputation even worse.

This isn't a "we want quality, not quantity" argument. Quantity can breed quality, but it can also increase the chances of pledging a woman or women who's a complete disaster. Sorority membership does not automatically transform someone - if it did, we wouldn't have selective rush to begin with.

[UGAalum94]

33Girl,

ETA: I just saw your response to me. The real deal is that they aren't often rude. The rude girls do usually get cut. The others are as sweet as can be, and in some ways that's part of the problem. The group can't tell who really likes them and wants to join, and who is just so socially good that she's not going to let herself be a bad guest. She's not going to tell you that she's crying because she thinks your group sucks.

And about open bidding, that's not even a factor at some places. They know that the groups they had as favorites don't open bid. But they may still be preffing at a house they think they want, and they to continue with rush, they have to go to up to a certain number of who they were invited to. Or they may be trying to give you a chance, but you still have to make them want it. How do you do it?

My original message started here: Sometimes, I'm sure that you are right. That a smaller group might be better off to go with only girls they love. I can especially see why it might be true in a smaller system with established groups of varying sizes where COR is a common practice. If you were allowed to choose well, you could have the chapter you wanted and the reputation you wanted. I honestly wish the NPC way of doing things allowed more of this. It certainly seems possible with IFC groups. They aren't all the same size. They have different reputations, and yet a lot of times the groups with 60 guys are considered as good as some of the 100+ guy chapters, especially if it's a 100+ guy chapter with a reputation for taking too many guys.

But other times, in NPCs, getting smaller pretty much means you are going to go under. And the honest truth of it is that at large recruitments, especially competitive recruitments, we're not really talking about giving bids to just anyone, especially people as bad as what you have described.

We're talking about groups figuring out how to find the women they really like who are open to joining a smaller group and make them know that they really are wanted by the chapter and that joining the chapter will be fun.

Because the problems isn't with the PNMs really. It's with how getting invites back is an unpleasant wake up call for girls who expected to join other chapters. They are more than aware of where they ranked your chapter and where other girls ranked your chapter, even if they liked you, and when they get the invite lists back and find out that they've gotten cut from their "favorites," they feel like losers. They aren't losers. They'd be great members. But after that experience, they're not feeling the NPC love.

And then, you've got to pref them at your group.

How do you do it when not doing it isn't an option?