Starting a fraternity chapter, looking for advice part 2

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by supahotboi

Your reported.

My reported what?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

My reported what?

OP - You are asking the same people the same questions. You are not going to get different advice.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Aside from the ridiculosity of asking questions on a public forum and then giving (futile) instructions on who can and can't respond and how they should and shouldn't respond, you realize, don't you, that you got very pertinent advice in the "out of hand" thread from someone with a great deal of personal experience about fraternity chapter operations generally and starting a chapter specificially, and you blew him and his very good advice off?

Holy run-on sentence, Batman!

Originally Posted by supahotboi

Your reported.

You're.

He thinks he is reporting to the moderators. Ha.

Originally Posted by supahotboi

I'm curious, but 33girl, are you a girl? No offense but I am not interested in the woman's perspective of fraternity life. That's like asking me to give you advice on the perspective of sorority life from my point of view, it's not going to make any sense.

I guess saying "girl" is fitting for a "supahotboi."

I certainly hope there are no women in the Office of Greek Life or elsewhere in the life of your potential fraternity. God forbid you need their advice since they know so much more than you do and have resources that you may not have access to.

Originally Posted by supahotboi

Like I said, I've been in talks with a guy who is part of the national fraternity. He is an alumni, he is a volunteer, he is NOT part of the expansion team. We haven't reached out to much alumni and maybe that would be a good idea. Again, this is more things I'm going to have to talk to the office about.

I know a few members of the current greek community that I have met through other means, but I don't expect much out of them. I never at a point in this stage were interested in getting involved with them since there isn't much they can really do for us.

Out of the people I've talked to, they are all very interested in Greek life expanding. I've talked to founders of another fraternity that was founded last year at their school and their process was the HQ coming down, drafting up an organization and going from there. My situation seems to be really unusual compared to how others got started. At this point I am looking to see what fraternities are coming here and looking to start something up since it doesn't seem like its the other way around.

The fraternities that come to my school is not because of the students wanted them to come. The last 3 organizations that have came in the last 3 years was not because a bunch of students were interested in a fraternity and got together and tried to start one, but because the HQ is doing expansion this way.



But the issue is of constructing relationships completely based on this. Are you telling me that I should go out there, find random joes or people I hardly know, and hang out with them just to start a fraternity? Since many people I have talked to that are interested are just waiting just like me and my other 2 friends. One of my friends I met was through the idea of trying to start this and I barely have any relationship with it and to be honest it is kind of awkward. He is interested in the idea, yet doesn't understand too much of what goes into it or has a clue (which honestly I don't blame him) and I feel like lots of people are going to get that vibe unless they see something that's official and something that is real and not just some underground mock idea. I just don't see people who are going to commit a lot of time and effort into something that they have no idea of what it's really about or what's to come. Just think, its insane if someone actually does follow through on something they are completely cluess about.

All of this and you still thought you needed Greekchat information. You're a waste.

Originally Posted by supahotboi

I'm not going to explain everything here because it's just leading to trolls. Really, it won't matter to anyone on here why I am doing what I am doing and nobody really flat up cares, so I save myself the efforts for people who can actually do something for me. It's bad enough half the posts here are by grown ups that still talk like they are in elementary school. God help them for how they act in real life.

Hello cliche`.

Hello flounce.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by supahotboi

I didn't blow Kevin off at all. He had a lot of good points. But I don't agree on his perspectives 100% though. His organization pays guys to upkeep his fraternity. I cannot relate to that. I find it hard to understand where he is coming from.

You misread. I stated that we have a very successful chapter which is so successful because they are so very effective in summer recruitment. Summer recruitment is also treated very seriously within my much more modest (but respectable) chapter. I gave those examples to show you how much of an opportunity summer could be for you.

As far as expansion goes, we got started up when the University opened up to expansion. It sent out letters soliciting groups to come onto our campus and establish themselves with the blessings of IFC and campus life. Several groups presented and Sigma Nu was selected. Beginning in the Fall of 1999, HQ sent a paid consultant to recruit an initial group of guys to comprise the beginnings of the colony. I was a part of that group (but I didn't come on until the Fall of '00). The expansion consultant stayed for one semester, helped with the establishment of our candidate program, left a bunch of books and benchmarks to reach and then we had to figure out how to be a fraternity. It was mostly trial and error. Mostly error. We took three years to colonize. In that time, we fluctuated between single digits and finally got up to around 35 before we petitioned HQ for a charter. Maintaining a chapter once it's chartered is tough to do as well, but you haven't even been established as a colony yet.

Why I say what you are doing is a little suspect procedurally is that yes, I do understand that sometimes, organizations force their way into a campus and into an IFC by establishing colonies and working outside the system until they can force the system to embrace them, that's not really the way it's done in most places. Usually, the existing organizations have decided that in order to improve the quality of their Greek Life system, they want to add an additional organization. They then select one of those groups from a list of applicants. Then, that organization will then dedicate significant assets to getting that group off the ground. A group of 3-4 men calling themselves a chapter is going to be a money-losing proposition for a national organization, so there is significant reason why they invest heavily in creating a strong organization.

Maybe that gives some background into why I think your entire situation is a little suspect and that you seem to have gone about things a bit backasswardly.

No offense but I am not interested in the woman's perspective

Life lesson. Never say those words together. What comes after it or before it won't matter much. Also, I'm an adviser of a relatively successful chapter. I often inquire with NPC advisers as to their best practices because frankly, NPC groups have evolved as organizations far past what most NIC groups have been capable of in terms of membership development, property management, expansion, recruitment, etc. Sometimes, the smartest thing you can possibly do as a fraternity member is find out what the sororities are doing and then attempt to duplicate their success.

The fraternities that come to my school is not because of the students wanted them to come. The last 3 organizations that have came in the last 3 years was not because a bunch of students were interested in a fraternity and got together and tried to start one, but because the HQ is doing expansion this way.

That is actually something you'll want to bring to the forefront of your discussions with possible organizations you're wanting to be a part of. It sounds like there's a market for expansion and that if they dedicate sufficient resources, they'll get a good return on investment.

But the issue is of constructing relationships completely based on this. Are you telling me that I should go out there, find random joes or people I hardly know, and hang out with them just to start a fraternity?

Yeah, that's pretty much what recruitment is. You get to know different prospects, if they're of quality, and only after you've made friends with them, bring up the fraternity thing. It's pretty much dude dating. That's recruitment in a nutshell.

I'm not going to explain everything here because it's just leading to trolls.

Try to see where we're coming from. You've been given a lot of good advice. I can say that because I have been very close to where you are right now (granted with quite a bit more organizational support, which is something you could fix if you found a group which wanted to dedicate actual resources to a colonization effort). I know exactly what you need to do to be successful. You have other ideas. What you do with that is up to you and unless you're a Sigma Nu colony, I really don't have a stake.

You need to listen to the advice that's given and be more gentlemanly about it. Many of the folks responding do have significant expansion experience and are extremely experienced in the operations of a fraternity or sorority. Finally, never doubt the wisdom of the ladies of GC.

[ASTalumna06]

It's bad enough half the posts here are by grown ups that still talk like they are in elementary school.

.....

Originally Posted by supahotboi

Your reported.

You were saying?

At least the rest of us can communicate in a way that proves we actually attended elememtary school. I can't say the same for you.


Oh, but I'm sorry, guys... I have a vagina, so I guess I should skedaddle.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by supahotboi

I deleted the 1st thread since things were getting out of hand. If you plan to post in one of my threads, be relevant or get out. I'm not interested in wasting any time arguing in circles about nothing. Also please no ladies posting, this is for fraternities, completely different realm here. Lastly, if you haven't started a chapter or have a real idea of how one starts, do not post. Starting verses. maintaining a chapter are two completely different concepts and I don't want advice for something that's not relevant. This isn't something I'm looking to argue about. And please be mature (like spending 5 posts commenting about my screen name, like really are you 4 years old?) since if not the mods will take care of you, thank you.

So again in the last thread I mentioned about how me and 2 of my friends (and possibly another guy I know) wanted to start a fraternity. However, we have not really had much help with the process of going about it and after a year we haven't went anywhere. If anything, we got involved with a bunch of sketchy people that have given us headaches along the way that just wasted time that we spent that could have been used a lot more wisely.

Again, not really looking to explain my entire situation since it's not really important, theres just too many things about myself, my friends and many other factors that are too much to talk about and since we are on the internet, there is barely a lot many of you aren't going to know about me regardless. Do not ask me why I want to do this or why haven't I rushed another fraternity or why haven't I talked to real people about this since these are very personal questions that don't need to be shared and that I know I have legitament reasons backing this.

We been in contacts with a National fraternity and they haven't done much. We met with them once and they want us to find 15-20 guys to start a colony. The expansion team has recommended me to an adviser (who was a guy that actually helped started another chapter out in the Mid-West) and he works a full-time job and doesn't have much time to do much. We have had barely any talks with the expansion team about anything outside of 2 phone calls at best. The adviser wants me to go out, find a bunch of guys, take them to him (which is an hour drive away from me), meet the guys, and then make a move. Again, theres no guaranteed from the headquarters right now about anything. They want to meet us, see if they are worth their time and then move forward. While it's understandable to some degree, it just is easier said than done since all we have is their word.

At this point it would be very awkward to move forward IMO. My friends are a little confused about the whole process as well and not even sure if this is real or if anything is going to happen. Me personally I know a lot about the fraternity process and about the system more than they do so I know more about whats expected. To find a bunch of guys that other fraternities haven't found and to convince them to buy something that has no security is just not good. It does not seem like we will get the people we are looking with this process.

Thing is, I'm a guy who is not just about one thing. I have a bunch of hobbies and have a lot of connections to different things. However, not too many people I know are interested in Greek Life since the rep it has at my school is not a high one. The percentage is below 4%, outside of seeing letters everywhere and some events here and there, Greek Life is just nothing that is really that great at my school. Organizations are constantly getting put on probation and coming and going. There isn't really any stability in the system. Then again I go to a commuter/up and coming university that basically helps just pass students to get their money, so in a way the attitude of the university is something that is reflected in the Greek system.

Because of this factor, me and my friends feel we have a great advantage with our idea since we look to make a great positive impact on the system that needs this. However, it is just an idea. To communicate this idea, it's rough at our stage because we lack any credibility. We are just a bunch of students who go to the school looking to get by, hopefully be successful some day, do things that regular college students do, and are decent people who just want to have a good time and learn some new things. We don't have any real marketing or are officials or really are any sort of credible leaders in this area.

The real question here is, how do fraternity chapters start up? What is the typical process? I tried googling "starting fraternity chapter stories" and nothing. It seems difficult for students themselves to start this up and I can see why. I plan to talk to the university this week and figure out their future plans for Greek Life and see what I can get involved with, but right now, everything seems very vague. The Greek Office has not been that helpful for the most part and even thinking of reaching out to other organizations at this point. The thing I am really seeing is what is there to expect (other than the time commitment, the work, the money, and many of the givens). It's already been a difficult process and I can see it getting harder. However, it's not just me facing issues, but the people that are in it with me are 100x more confused than I am.

rejectment.

[supahotboi]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

.....



You were saying?

At least the rest of us can communicate in a way that proves we actually attended elememtary school. I can't say the same for you.


Oh, but I'm sorry, guys... I have a vagina, so I guess I should skedaddle.

No, I disagree greatly with your statement. The maturity this board brings is incredibly questionable. That's great that most of the threads I see your posts in are basically sandboxes that have no structure, but almost everyone who comes on here looking for answers or for some help is going to have the **** scared out of them. You need to not just look at it from your own point of view. It's not just me you affect, but probably thousands of others.

If I knew nothing about Greek Life and this was my first impression, I would conclude that they are scum of the earth.

And no, I am not telling girls to lay off for no reason. Sororities have a lot more rules, formalities, politics, and other things involved with them that are a lot different than fraternities. Your perspective is not something I will be able to relate to easily.

Originally Posted by Kevin

You misread. I stated that we have a very successful chapter which is so successful because they are so very effective in summer recruitment. Summer recruitment is also treated very seriously within my much more modest (but respectable) chapter. I gave those examples to show you how much of an opportunity summer could be for you.

As far as expansion goes, we got started up when the University opened up to expansion. It sent out letters soliciting groups to come onto our campus and establish themselves with the blessings of IFC and campus life. Several groups presented and Sigma Nu was selected. Beginning in the Fall of 1999, HQ sent a paid consultant to recruit an initial group of guys to comprise the beginnings of the colony. I was a part of that group (but I didn't come on until the Fall of '00). The expansion consultant stayed for one semester, helped with the establishment of our candidate program, left a bunch of books and benchmarks to reach and then we had to figure out how to be a fraternity. It was mostly trial and error. Mostly error. We took three years to colonize. In that time, we fluctuated between single digits and finally got up to around 35 before we petitioned HQ for a charter. Maintaining a chapter once it's chartered is tough to do as well, but you haven't even been established as a colony yet.

Why I say what you are doing is a little suspect procedurally is that yes, I do understand that sometimes, organizations force their way into a campus and into an IFC by establishing colonies and working outside the system until they can force the system to embrace them, that's not really the way it's done in most places. Usually, the existing organizations have decided that in order to improve the quality of their Greek Life system, they want to add an additional organization. They then select one of those groups from a list of applicants. Then, that organization will then dedicate significant assets to getting that group off the ground. A group of 3-4 men calling themselves a chapter is going to be a money-losing proposition for a national organization, so there is significant reason why they invest heavily in creating a strong organization.

Maybe that gives some background into why I think your entire situation is a little suspect and that you seem to have gone about things a bit backasswardly.





Life lesson. Never say those words together. What comes after it or before it won't matter much. Also, I'm an adviser of a relatively successful chapter. I often inquire with NPC advisers as to their best practices because frankly, NPC groups have evolved as organizations far past what most NIC groups have been capable of in terms of membership development, property management, expansion, recruitment, etc. Sometimes, the smartest thing you can possibly do as a fraternity member is find out what the sororities are doing and then attempt to duplicate their success.



That is actually something you'll want to bring to the forefront of your discussions with possible organizations you're wanting to be a part of. It sounds like there's a market for expansion and that if they dedicate sufficient resources, they'll get a good return on investment.



Yeah, that's pretty much what recruitment is. You get to know different prospects, if they're of quality, and only after you've made friends with them, bring up the fraternity thing. It's pretty much dude dating. That's recruitment in a nutshell.



Try to see where we're coming from. You've been given a lot of good advice. I can say that because I have been very close to where you are right now (granted with quite a bit more organizational support, which is something you could fix if you found a group which wanted to dedicate actual resources to a colonization effort). I know exactly what you need to do to be successful. You have other ideas. What you do with that is up to you and unless you're a Sigma Nu colony, I really don't have a stake.

You need to listen to the advice that's given and be more gentlemanly about it. Many of the folks responding do have significant expansion experience and are extremely experienced in the operations of a fraternity or sorority. Finally, never doubt the wisdom of the ladies of GC.

Again, everything you have said is pretty helpful. I appreciate the advice. My only thing with the ladies here is that fraternities and sororities operate in two different fashions. Their recruitment is different, their pledging is different, their interests are different, their operations are different, etc etc. To me, it doesn't really interest me what they have to say because they are talking about a different world. It's just not too applicable for this situation.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Oh, but I'm sorry, guys... I have a vagina, so I guess I should skedaddle.

Don't fret. Some vaginas have rich lives. They type GC posts. They purify themselves in the waters of Lake Minnetonka. Life is good for those vaginas despite their owners having to skedaddle.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Don't fret. Some vaginas have rich lives. They type GC posts. They purify themselves in the waters of Lake Minnetonka. Life is good for those vaginas despite their owners having to skedaddle.

LOL. This reminded me of the Wanda Sykes "Detachable" stand up skit.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

LOL. This reminded me of the Wanda Sykes "Detachable" stand up skit.

LOL. This thread can either go Wanda Sykes or Prince/Dave Chappelle from this point on. Let me know what you decide.

[knight_shadow]

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by supahotboi

No, I disagree greatly with your statement. The maturity this board brings is incredibly questionable. That's great that most of the threads I see your posts in are basically sandboxes that have no structure, but almost everyone who comes on here looking for answers or for some help is going to have the **** scared out of them. You need to not just look at it from your own point of view. It's not just me you affect, but probably thousands of others.

Uh.. What?

You used "your" incorrectly. The end.

If I knew nothing about Greek Life and this was my first impression, I would conclude that they are scum of the earth.

Scum of the Earth? Yea, we're horrible people for giving you good advice. Shame on us.

And no, I am not telling girls to lay off for no reason. Sororities have a lot more rules, formalities, politics, and other things involved with them that are a lot different than fraternities. Your perspective is not something I will be able to relate to easily.

And yet, even when the women on this board say pretty much the exact same thing the men say, they're still wrong.

Good to know.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Don't fret. Some vaginas have rich lives. They type GC posts. They purify themselves in the waters of Lake Minnetonka. Life is good for those vaginas despite their owners having to skedaddle.

I lost.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Holy run-on sentence, Batman!

I know, but I decided to go with it.

Originally Posted by supahotboi

No, I disagree greatly with your statement. The maturity this board brings is incredibly questionable..

I really hope you don't think you've demonstrated incredible maturity in your posts, because you haven't. Maturity would be to ignore politely posts that you don't think are applicable to your situation, not to pontificate about who can and can't post and what they can and can't say. Maturity would be to accept and consider all advice at least initially, not just say "well, that doesn't apply to my situation because . . . ," or "well, we don't want to do anything over the summer."

And by the way, I would be willing to bet that more than a few of the women here understand what's involved in starting a fraternity chapter better than some of the guys do.

But the bottom line is this: You already seem to have a specific fraternity in mind. Your questions should be addressed (1) to people within that fraternity who are familiar with starting a new chapter and would be supporting you in the endeavor, and (2) people involved in Greek Life on your campus (including women) who have a good sense of your own specific campus culture.

[PSKsilver]

I get off the computer for two hours, and miss stuff.

Originally Posted by supahotboi

I deleted the 1st thread since things were getting out of hand. If you plan to post in one of my threads, be relevant or get out. I'm not interested in wasting any time arguing in circles about nothing. Also please no ladies posting, this is for fraternities, completely different realm here. Lastly, if you haven't started a chapter or have a real idea of how one starts, do not post. Starting verses. maintaining a chapter are two completely different concepts and I don't want advice for something that's not relevant. This isn't something I'm looking to argue about. And please be mature (like spending 5 posts commenting about my screen name, like really are you 4 years old?) since if not the mods will take care of you, thank you.

Why yes, starting stanzas and poems are quite different than maintaining a chapter.

Originally Posted by supahotboi

So again in the last thread I mentioned about how me and 2 of my friends (and possibly another guy I know) wanted to start a fraternity.

Congrats on getting 1 more guy and increasing your total to 4.

Originally Posted by supahotboi

However, we have not really had much help with the process of going about it and after a year we haven't went anywhere. If anything, we got involved with a bunch of sketchy people that have given us headaches along the way that just wasted time that we spent that could have been used a lot more wisely.

Ok, I'll bite. Define sketchy. What kind of behavior do you not want in your fraternity?

Originally Posted by supahotboi

Again, not really looking to explain my entire situation since it's not really important, theres just too many things about myself, my friends and many other factors that are too much to talk about and since we are on the internet, there is barely a lot many of you aren't going to know about me regardless. Do not ask me why I want to do this or why haven't I rushed another fraternity or why haven't I talked to real people about this since these are very personal questions that don't need to be shared and that I know I have legitament reasons backing this.

Too bad. You wanted help, you need to answer those. Why? Because I'm pretty sure that you'll be asked these questions at your college.

And....legitament?

Originally Posted by supahotboi

We been in contacts with a National fraternity and they haven't done much. We met with them once and they want us to find 15-20 guys to start a colony. The expansion team has recommended me to an adviser (who was a guy that actually helped started another chapter out in the Mid-West) and he works a full-time job and doesn't have much time to do much. We have had barely any talks with the expansion team about anything outside of 2 phone calls at best. The adviser wants me to go out, find a bunch of guys, take them to him (which is an hour drive away from me), meet the guys, and then make a move. Again, theres no guaranteed from the headquarters right now about anything. They want to meet us, see if they are worth their time and then move forward. While it's understandable to some degree, it just is easier said than done since all we have is their word.

Well, tough luck I'm afraid. If this is hard to do for you, imagine rush.

Originally Posted by supahotboi

At this point it would be very awkward to move forward IMO. My friends are a little confused about the whole process as well and not even sure if this is real or if anything is going to happen. Me personally I know a lot about the fraternity process and about the system more than they do so I know more about whats expected. To find a bunch of guys that other fraternities haven't found and to convince them to buy something that has no security is just not good. It does not seem like we will get the people we are looking with this process.

Thing is, I'm a guy who is not just about one thing. I have a bunch of hobbies and have a lot of connections to different things. However, not too many people I know are interested in Greek Life since the rep it has at my school is not a high one. The percentage is below 4%, outside of seeing letters everywhere and some events here and there, Greek Life is just nothing that is really that great at my school. Organizations are constantly getting put on probation and coming and going. There isn't really any stability in the system. Then again I go to a commuter/up and coming university that basically helps just pass students to get their money, so in a way the attitude of the university is something that is reflected in the Greek system.

Because of this factor, me and my friends feel we have a great advantage with our idea since we look to make a great positive impact on the system that needs this. However, it is just an idea. To communicate this idea, it's rough at our stage because we lack any credibility. We are just a bunch of students who go to the school looking to get by, hopefully be successful some day, do things that regular college students do, and are decent people who just want to have a good time and learn some new things. We don't have any real marketing or are officials or really are any sort of credible leaders in this area.

The real question here is, how do fraternity chapters start up? What is the typical process? I tried googling "starting fraternity chapter stories" and nothing. It seems difficult for students themselves to start this up and I can see why. I plan to talk to the university this week and figure out their future plans for Greek Life and see what I can get involved with, but right now, everything seems very vague. The Greek Office has not been that helpful for the most part and even thinking of reaching out to other organizations at this point. The thing I am really seeing is what is there to expect (other than the time commitment, the work, the money, and many of the givens). It's already been a difficult process and I can see it getting harder. However, it's not just me facing issues, but the people that are in it with me are 100x more confused than I am.

Originally Posted by supahotboi

While there are quite a few commonalities, its still two different things. It's like if you were to learn how to play basketball from a girl instead of a guy. You might learn the fundamentals, but theres just so much more that makes it different.

Listen to what every other poster has posted. That includes the ladies. Going by your shitty basketball example, you seem to lack the fundamentals to begin with, so the ladies here could help you with a thing or two.