Tiers in The SEC

[bowsandtoes]

3-4 generations in Highland Park would definitely not put a family in the 'new money' category. I didn't go to HPHS, but I'm from the area and can speak with confidence on the subject.

By your definition, there's only a handful of houses on beverly that would qualify.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

3-4 generations in Highland Park would definitely not put a family in the 'new money' category. I didn't go to HPHS, but I'm from the area and can speak with confidence on the subject.

By your definition, there's only a handful of houses on beverly that would qualify.

Well and I don't think maccallen was specifically talking about his own family's situation, he was only defining it.

I enjoy bummin around Highland Park...the Blue Goose on Greenville is pretty good.

Neither here nor there, Highland Park is an excellent place to recruit from.

[Lucky SC]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Haha, it is definately all it's made out to be. But rarely are the crazies you see the ones heading off to college- or sending their kids to college.

On a side note, I really think that rednecks don't get enough credit. They throw the best parties!

ehhhh...

i enjoyed my trip there and wouldn't mind a trip back. but its the wild shit that goes on there that makes it crazy, its nothing but a long one lane road with one big club and a ton of hotels, there really isn't shit to do in panama and the beaches suck. I'd take a wild Euro Trip or Cancun any day over it, Panama is an experience though haha

and we def get a good deal of fraternity men at South Carolina... you basically get rich kids from North Carolina who weren't smart enough for the likes of UNC or Duke and want in an SEC school, some guys from the greenville/spartanburg area, and then Charleston (thats the frattiest looking town i've ever seen in my entire life).

i gotta agree with what everyone is saying though.

I went to a private school in Atlanta, Georgia, most of the kids there had dads who were lawyers, doctors, or even CEO's. No one in my family has gone to college, my mom works in a retail store and my dad is a used car salesman but they worked their ass off to make some money and send me there and to college.

Now growing up around kids that wore polo's everywhere and were basically bred fraternity men... it wears off... my style has definately changed from freshman year of highschool to freshman year of college where i am now.

You are your environment for the most part.

Not a single guy friend of mine save one or two out of the graduating class did not join a fraternity.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by UTLonghorn2012

Arkansas gets a lot of private school/Highland Park kids from Dallas who can't get in everywhere else.

About 10 percent of my 250 member all-guys class will be Hogs next year, and I expect a lot of them to pledge.

I expect that besides the private school crowds from Tulsa and Dallas and Memphis, most of U of A's fraternity community is coming from the Little Rock old money.

Welcome to UT!

Can I ask y'all a question? How do guys from the SEC schools honestly view W&L? I saw one of you included it as in-between first and second tier. I'm very curious to see what you have to say.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Welcome to UT!

Can I ask y'all a question? How do guys from the SEC schools honestly view W&L? I saw one of you included it as in-between first and second tier. I'm very curious to see what you have to say.

In my opinion....very, very close to 1st tier...if not there.

What a great school Greek wise (and academically, of course) I consider it similar to University of the South or Hampden-Sydney. The greek system's great, but since it's a small, private school the GDI's could be Greek at most schools.

[shinerbock]

Having Auburn in the same tier as LSU and UGA is laughable. So is having SC in the top tier.

I'd say Bama, Ole Miss and Texas at the top. Followed by an intermediate group of like Auburn and W&L, then probably UGA, Clemson, LSU, etc.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

In my opinion....very, very close to 1st tier...if not there.

What a great school Greek wise (and academically, of course) I consider it similar to University of the South or Hampden-Sydney. The greek system's great, but since it's a small, private school the GDI's could be Greek at most schools.

Not that there are many independents... last numbers I saw, 90% of men are Greek. I think that number has been boosted that high finally by the addition of two NPHC fraternities, which were included in the total count. I'd have to go back and find the page again.

Thanks for the response. I was just curious--I went there, just to clarify. I wasn't sure how it was viewed from the outside.

Hampden-Sydney... LOL. That place is so insane.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by banditone

What's funny is that no one ever says "blah blah fraternity, the one no one wants to join". Or the like.

I think this is a reflection in the way that sororities do recruitment. A fraternity can target the guys they want and only take those guys without a ton of pressure for not taking 60 of them. And the group overall can be smaller as long as they are financially healthy and it's no big deal.

With sororities, you have to take quota and be at total or it reflects poorly on the group.

ETA: I see Skylark has already said this, but I replied before I read all the way through.

[Lucky SC]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Having Auburn in the same tier as LSU and UGA is laughable. So is having SC in the top tier.

I'd say Bama, Ole Miss and Texas at the top. Followed by an intermediate group of like Auburn and W&L, then probably UGA, Clemson, LSU, etc.

why is SC such a joke? i dont think its higher then UGA, but i think its on level with LSU or Auburn. have u been here or are u talking out of your ass based on the bias of a lack of football tradition?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by catiebug

Why, bless your heart macallan. Where I come from (Highland Park - Fratty would be proud), that is considered new money.

And, as I consider myself a lady, I refuse to discuss money anymore. It just is *not done*.

What?

I wasn't commenting on my own family, I was making a general, blanket statement about what constitutes Old Money. My explanation was more than valid and completely appropriate.

For the record, I have lived in Highland Park and have had family there since 1952. I go to Texas and have several fraternity brothers who are from HP. Furthermore, while you may exude classiness and modesty, there are multitudes of people who live there that have helped perpetuate the reputation of HP as a haven for self-centered, elitist, self-entitled pricks. Perhaps think about that the next time you feel the need to "bless my heart", tell me where you are from, and let me know how much of a lady you are. Being from Highland Part doesn't mean you automatically piss class.

Now, I'm not sure if you are saying that in HP, talking about wealth is "new money" or if you are trying to tell me that in HP, my definition is incorrect. I'll assume you meant the first. If you meant the latter than all I can do is laugh. 100+ years of family wealth (that would be about 4 generations) is most certainly old money. Highland Park was nothing more than building plans 100 years ago so I find it odd that anyone living there would refute the definition.

[baci]

I found this thread to be very interesting and I want to thank everyone for proving we can discuss somewhat "touchy" subjects without huge fallouts.

I am not fully in the know about fraternities, but I can say I am a lifelong Floridian. I attended UF and I can agree that it is different when it comes to fraternities vs. "The South". I would like to think after numerous generations continue to pass here, it may establish itself in time and its powers just like the old south. It is odd to say/explain, but in a way Florida sort of stands on its own. I do think many people can understand what I am saying (especially those who live here).

I came through at a time when So Florida was growing. I was a little girl when hardly anyone was here. My city began development when I was a toddler and I have lived there since. It was a nice area/well respected among upper middle class families and some ultra rich. My point in this, when you rushed/were recruited it almost didn't matter where you lived because everything was so new and unestablished. People just thought it was neat to hear if you lived near them or they recognized your little suburb. It was comforting to talk to someone and they knew little quirks about your area and its newness.

I can speak for my knowledge about sororities. It was not peaches and cream. It was extremely tough and competitive and it really was out of your control for the most part. Majority of the girls on my hall rushed and only three received bids. It was first and foremost about how you looked. If you did not have the level of "good looks", you immeditaley were knocked out of numerous groups. Then, your "figure" came into play. After that, it was what your father did for a living and how much money you were perceived to have. From there it was how you dressed, your jewelry, and what handbag you carried etc. It then went to your grades, high school activities, what area you were from, and possibly a mention of your school. (Remember, our areas and schools were all so new). If you were the daughter of someone very important you garnered a pass on much of the above and everyone knew it. If you were a legacy it was important, but all the recs were not as important.

This was the truth and it was extremely hurtful to so many young girls. I will never forget all the tears and hurt from the rush week and on for the entire school year. I have to say it brewed some hate between greek and non-greek women. It was hard to see so many girls upset and everyone knew much of it was based on looks and an outward visual. Many outstanding girls were never even close to being part of a sorority and they had greatness to offer.

A great deal of time has passed and I am sure aspects of this have changed, but I am a realist. To a degree, this is what real life is like and I don't like to hide this when I speak to younger people. I really like to be honest, but I do it with encouraging words and a positive angle.

When I was at the university, it was really like this. I see the parallels as I read the fraternity stories. To tell someone to go into rush now with an open mind is nice, but you aslo have to go in realistically as well.

I love the entire greek system and there is so much goodness involved, but I know from my experience that many people do not enter into the system at such a young age for the philanthropy and for reasons in which it was initially established. That is life. I am one of the people who cheer for the people who go AI because many of those women really want to be a part of the group for strong reasons, especially if they enter the group at much older ages.

The tier system will always be here and there is no getting away from it. This is how life really is. As you age, you will see that this does become less important. How you look, how much money you have, where you live, what type of work you engage in all become less important. The goodness inside of each person is much more important. How you live your life, how you carry yourself, how you treat others, and the goodness you do is of much more importance. Kind of funny because "doing good" is what sorority life is truly based.

[PhiGam]

Great post

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Lucky SC

why is SC such a joke? i dont think its higher then UGA, but i think its on level with LSU or Auburn. have u been here or are u talking out of your ass based on the bias of a lack of football tradition?

I've been there, I nearly went to grad school there. My family is from SC. South Carolina is a fine school, and a solid greek school. But I wouldn't rank it among the remaining greek powerhouses, at least using my criteria. If football was the only concern, Ole Miss wouldn't be the consensus #1 greek school in the country.

You guys are vastly overstating UGA greek life. I would put SC on par with UGA and LSU. I think a number of factors go into my tiering of schools, including greek tradition, financial success, prominence on campus, attitude of the school itself, etc. UGA simply doesn't compete with Ole Miss, Alabama, Auburn, etc...on those last two categories. A decade ago perhaps. Not now. It is in a town full of hippies at a school that is turning more and more to the left. That is fine, but I don't think it helps the greek system. The school feeds more and more from metro Atlanta, and though plenty of fraternities still draw from Augusta or Savannah, fraternities full of transplant students (via metro area) are having their impact. There are probably 3 schools in the SEC that are still traditional, conservative, SEC-of-old type, and they're Ole Miss, Auburn and Alabama. I think that factors in huge when retaining a traditional emphasis on greek life. You can actually see the same impact that UGA is experiencing at Auburn (drawing on ATL students), but the degree is fairly disparate.

LSU is a matter all to itself. I thoroughly enjoy the time I've spent hanging out with folks in BR, but it is pretty difficult to compare the atmosphere of BR to Tuscaloosa or Auburn or Oxford. LSU is completely different than the schools we talk about most.

[Lucky SC]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I've been there, I nearly went to grad school there. My family is from SC. South Carolina is a fine school, and a solid greek school. But I wouldn't rank it among the remaining greek powerhouses, at least using my criteria. If football was the only concern, Ole Miss wouldn't be the consensus #1 greek school in the country.

You guys are vastly overstating UGA greek life. I would put SC on par with UGA and LSU. I think a number of factors go into my tiering of schools, including greek tradition, financial success, prominence on campus, attitude of the school itself, etc. UGA simply doesn't compete with Ole Miss, Alabama, Auburn, etc...on those last two categories. A decade ago perhaps. Not now. It is in a town full of hippies at a school that is turning more and more to the left. That is fine, but I don't think it helps the greek system. The school feeds more and more from metro Atlanta, and though plenty of fraternities still draw from Augusta or Savannah, fraternities full transplant students (via metro area) is having its impact. There are probably 3 schools in the SEC that are still traditional, conservative, SEC-of-old type, and they're Ole Miss, Auburn and Alabama. I think that factors in huge when retaining a traditional emphasis on greek life. You can actually see the same impact that UGA is experiencing at Auburn (drawing on ATL students), but the degree is fairly disparate.

LSU is a matter all to itself. I thoroughly enjoy the time I've spent hanging out with folks in BR, but it is pretty difficult to compare the atmosphere of BR to Tuscaloosa or Auburn or Oxford. School is completely different than the schools we talk about most,

I understand your argument. But i think to completely think that your standards will hold true for the next 2 or 3 decades is a false hope. With the competitiveness of the job market these days you are going to be seeing influxes of students from places like atlanta and bigger cities, not to mention places like augusta and savannah in a few years won't be the more conservative places that you think they will be. (conservative probably still but not in the same sense as today).

Schools are going to be harder and harder to get into and you are going to see more numbers going to schools like UGA. i think you underestimate them as well, i think you'll be surprised at the number of "fraternity men" going there next year, national title here we come.

[Lucky SC]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I've been there, I nearly went to grad school there. My family is from SC. South Carolina is a fine school, and a solid greek school. But I wouldn't rank it among the remaining greek powerhouses, at least using my criteria. If football was the only concern, Ole Miss wouldn't be the consensus #1 greek school in the country.

You guys are vastly overstating UGA greek life. I would put SC on par with UGA and LSU. I think a number of factors go into my tiering of schools, including greek tradition, financial success, prominence on campus, attitude of the school itself, etc. UGA simply doesn't compete with Ole Miss, Alabama, Auburn, etc...on those last two categories. A decade ago perhaps. Not now. It is in a town full of hippies at a school that is turning more and more to the left. That is fine, but I don't think it helps the greek system. The school feeds more and more from metro Atlanta, and though plenty of fraternities still draw from Augusta or Savannah, fraternities full of transplant students (via metro area) are having their impact. There are probably 3 schools in the SEC that are still traditional, conservative, SEC-of-old type, and they're Ole Miss, Auburn and Alabama. I think that factors in huge when retaining a traditional emphasis on greek life. You can actually see the same impact that UGA is experiencing at Auburn (drawing on ATL students), but the degree is fairly disparate.

LSU is a matter all to itself. I thoroughly enjoy the time I've spent hanging out with folks in BR, but it is pretty difficult to compare the atmosphere of BR to Tuscaloosa or Auburn or Oxford. LSU is completely different than the schools we talk about most.

Oh and also, where did u go to undergrad?