Why? Sophomore UGA story

[AlphaXi_Husky]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

My campus was that way too. It does really mess with chapter size though and makes total irrelevant, to an extent.

I'm a bit confused - how would that make total irrelevant? Because of a higher turnover rate (three years instead of four)? Usually I can figure out what people mean, but my brain is muddled today.

[irishpipes]

I know where I went the chapter sizes were all over the place. It had nothing to do - well, little to do, with chapter strength. Graduation rates are no problem if you consistently take the same mix, but if in year 1 you take 20 sophomores and 25 freshmen, and then in year 2 you take 10 sophomores and 35 freshmen and then year 3 you take 5 juniors, 15 sophomores, and 25 freshmen, etc etc

You took 45 each year, but your loss to graduation is all over the place. So, total is relatively meaningless. You can be way over total just because you didn't lose a lot to graduation, or way under total because you lost a ton. It just gets messy. Total is no longer an indication of how your past recruitments have gone or your initiation rate or membership retention.

I know at my school, all of the strong chapters had between 150-200 members, and the chapter with 150 wasn't necessarily a weaker chapter than the one with 200, or vice versa. So, if total was 165 and you had 150, it didn't necessarily mean you were a struggling chapter. That's what I meant.

[AlphaXi_Husky]

Gotchya - that makes sense. Thanks for explaining!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I know where I went the chapter sizes were all over the place. It had nothing to do - well, little to do, with chapter strength. Graduation rates are no problem if you consistently take the same mix, but if in year 1 you take 20 sophomores and 25 freshmen, and then in year 2 you take 10 sophomores and 35 freshmen and then year 3 you take 5 juniors, 15 sophomores, and 25 freshmen, etc etc

You took 45 each year, but your loss to graduation is all over the place. So, total is relatively meaningless. You can be way over total just because you didn't lose a lot to graduation, or way under total because you lost a ton. It just gets messy. Total is no longer an indication of how your past recruitments have gone or your initiation rate or membership retention.

I know at my school, all of the strong chapters had between 150-200 members, and the chapter with 150 wasn't necessarily a weaker chapter than the one with 200, or vice versa. So, if total was 165 and you had 150, it didn't necessarily mean you were a struggling chapter. That's what I meant.

This makes complete sense, and I think I'd like a Greek system like that a lot.

But at a school where most groups regarded as "successful" are relatively the same size and there's little COB, it's a big risk to graduate too many at once.

[Zillini]

This discussion is why I love a separate Upperclassmen Quota. It eliminates the possibility of PNM being discriminated against due to year in school. I'm not saying this happened here. I don't know UGA's campus culture well enough nor this particular PNM to speculate on anything.

Prior to Bama adopting the separate quota it was nearly impossible for sophomore to get a bid. She might as well not waste her time and registration fee. Considering I was a sophomore pledge from a campus where this was no big deal, it pained me to see so many fabulous women released simply because of their class standing. Nothing I said could change this mindset. I celebrated when Bama adopted an Upperclassmen quota.

[irishpipes]

I should point out that the chapter houses at my school tended to sleep fewer members (mine slept 66) so having upperclassmen didn't prevent you from filling your house, which is a huge consideration on other campuses.

[I.C. a Pi Phi]

Class year is also looked at as $$ contribution. Let's say your dues are $1000/year.

If you pledge a freshman, that person is bringing $4000 to the sorority before you have to "replace" them, while the sophomore is contributing $3000.

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Paging OTW's signature link!

Late to the party as I've been away all day...but I'm heeeeere!

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by OTW

Late to the party as I've been away all day...but I'm heeeeere!

I propose that whenever a HM posts about DD, we need the OTW sig to pop-up. Kind of like, "Gotcha".

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I should point out that the chapter houses at my school tended to sleep fewer members (mine slept 66) so having upperclassmen didn't prevent you from filling your house, which is a huge consideration on other campuses.

Do upperclassmen not live in the houses?

[UGAALUM]

First, as a UGA grad I like the way Alabama does it giving a separate quota to upperclassman so the sororites will pledge. I think having older girls in a pledge class can help the younger ones. Once again I think each sorority on campus has there own way of deciding who can live in the house. In my sorority the 2008 pledge class will have priority to live in the house no matter their year. Some sororites require their officers to live in the house others don't. When you have a pledge class in excess of 60 there will be some in that pledge class that will never be able to live in the house which I think is sad because of lack of space. Usually these are the girls that are least active and need to live in the house.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Do upperclassmen not live in the houses?

They're the only ones who live in, but when you can only sleep 66 and you have 150-200, you need to have a lot live out as well.

[Lightning Bug!]

Our house only slept in the thirties! I CANNOT IMAGINE sleeping in a house with 65 other girls...30-something was enough to drive me crazy at times!

[snakealum]

Originally Posted by kddani

Membership selection is confidential and no one can answer your question accurately.

Ideas:
- She did not maximize her options
- She did something her freshman year that earned her a bad reputation
- HS accolades mean very little for a sophomore
- She's up against hundreds of other "perfect" girls and just wasn't memorable.

1 - Maybe, but she did have 12 solidly on her "very
interested in" list going in. She was cut by all but one after second round.

2 - Always possible but highly doubtful.

3 - Agree, but the hit parade continues in college (3.9 is college gpa, HS was 4.3, leadership positions in several organizations, etc). "I love Athens!" was all I heard everytime I talked to her.

4 - Glad you put quotes around perfect. I think this would be more believable had she not been cut so severely so early. A 10 minute visit only confirms your predisposition.

I appreciate the attempts at answering what I guess was my true question, the one about sophomores. Some of them have validity but I do think that they are short-sighted when compared to what is missed by so easily dismissing this (or these) girls. No easy solution here but I am troubled by it. Never seemed to be a problem "back in the day".

I understand that there will never be any true answer to what happened. We had talked about what could happen before she went, I just never thought this really would. "Trust the process, you'll end up where you belong" was the mantra repeated over and over. I now feel like the general telling a mom that the battle went as planned and we won, So sorry your son got killed. Luckily, this young lady will be fine. Hurt but she will recover. I doubt, however, I can ever be as enthusiastic about trusting the process again. This was a train wreck.

[CrackerBarrel]

I still think that something else had to have been going on. I know a lot of sophomores who rushed at a lot of SEC schools and they sometimes got shut out of the best houses (which I think otherwise they could have gotten in at), but they all got bids somewhere.