Tiers in The SEC

[gtdxeric]

Originally Posted by banditone

Physical Plant (house and structures).
Campus Involvement / Leadership roles.
What Sororities they interact with on average.

The other criteria you mentioned can be objectively measured. If your house has a $100,000 social budget, there's no arguing that it's more (and thereby better) than the one next door or across the state that has a $50K budget.

These, however, come down to opinion. Is it better to have a huge new house, like several of the FSU houses, or a classic, but smaller house, like Fiji at Texas? How much better or worse? What campus leadership roles actually "mean something"? Student government president is usually the consensus most prestigious position on a campus, but the level of respect definitely varies from campus to campus. This kind of stuff is why it's hard to directly compare/rank fraternities across the South, much less across the nation, and we haven't even gotten into the intangibles, like how many brothers are douchebags.

What I'm saying is, you can rank houses, but I'd say that only maybe half of the ranking can be made objectively. The other half is up to the individual.

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by gtdxeric

The other criteria you mentioned can be objectively measured. If your house has a $100,000 social budget, there's no arguing that it's more (and thereby better) than the one next door or across the state that has a $50K budget.

These, however, come down to opinion. Is it better to have a huge new house, like several of the FSU houses, or a classic, but smaller house, like Fiji at Texas? How much better or worse? What campus leadership roles actually "mean something"? Student government president is usually the consensus most prestigious position on a campus, but the level of respect definitely varies from campus to campus. This kind of stuff is why it's hard to directly compare/rank fraternities across the South, much less across the nation, and we haven't even gotten into the intangibles, like how many brothers are douchebags.

What I'm saying is, you can rank houses, but I'd say that only maybe half of the ranking can be made objectively. The other half is up to the individual.

Excellent points!

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Does Arkansas get much draw from the Missouri/Oklahoma/Kansas area?

Yes, unfortunately.

However, since they're from those areas they tend not to join fraternities. Oklahoma area does sometimes because there are good private schools around Tulsa.

The Delta is losing population every day and even worse it's a 4 hour drive from campus...in that same area you could ALMOST get to Dallas, definitely Tulsa and definitely Kansas, Southwestern Missouri. We're seeing more and more Joplin/Springfield/Branson kids now a days.

Despite the distance we seem to be pulling in some good Houston and Highland Park kids which is making up for the losses in the Delta.

[Lucky SC]

schools like UGA and UF are going to face this with their increasingly high academic standards which is one way a good thing but in another will decrease the amount of "fraternity men" so to say as you were arguing.

I can see this more in Texas and Florida, but i think UGA has a way to go considering it has always had a pretty secure southern feel, the rest of Georgia is far from being like Atlanta... trust me lol. North Georgia is straight boonies.

And Atlanta has a lot of old money in it as well like the Buckhead areas and such, all of the kids from all of those private schools and the nicer public schools in cities like Marietta, Peachtree, and Alpharetta are still all mostly flooding into UGA.

UGA is trying to be progressive but its still very far behind. I don't mean this to come off racist, but 5% african american population, and i think 5-10% asian... the rest all being white kids. Still pretty much like it always has been, strange considering the fact that GA has a relatively high population of african americans.

[UTLonghorn2012]

Arkansas gets a lot of private school/Highland Park kids from Dallas who can't get in everywhere else.

About 10 percent of my 250 member all-guys class will be Hogs next year, and I expect a lot of them to pledge.

I expect that besides the private school crowds from Tulsa and Dallas and Memphis, most of U of A's fraternity community is coming from the Little Rock old money.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

I figured that's where you were coming from, and I'm sure it's accurate. I think UF is probably going to keep falling until we join the ranks of UNC. It's difficult to keep tradition strong here for several reasons. (I'm afraid that Georgia and Texas are hot on the trail)

1- Our president is fairly conservative, but the rest of the administration orgasms over the idea of "progress" and "diversity".
2- Admissions standards are getting tougher.
3- We have one of the cheapest tution rates in the country.
4- You were dead on about this. Most of the panhandle kids head to Auburn, Alabama, or LSU because they're actually CLOSER than Florida. And sometimes, students from Jacksonville and north will go to UGA.

What's left for us? Tampa, and parts of Orlando are still respectable. Most of the beach towns are good, Jacksonville, and Tallahassee. Slim pickin's.

Does Arkansas get much draw from the Missouri/Oklahoma/Kansas area?

We get great pledges from the Pensacola area. Tampa and Orlando can produce really solid guys too.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by UTLonghorn2012

I expect that besides the private school crowds from Tulsa and Dallas and Memphis, most of U of A's fraternity community is coming from the Little Rock old money.

In terms of quality, it comes from the private schools in Dallas, Memphis and Little Rock aaaand the Delta. Which has no private schools, but has some old money (and some no money at all) schools like DeWitt, Stuttgart, Gillette, some Pine Bluff and mostly towns that are barely on the map.


But you're correct about the private schools in Little Rock. Little Rock Catholic, Episcopal, and Central tend to bring out the most of 'em.

[gee_ess]

EW and others, what makes you think that fraternity men in Arkansas are all from "old money"? "Old Money" in Arkansas is a topic I do not think you can speak about considering your age and experience.

Your comments regarding geographical distribution of members MIGHT be more accurate, but to make sweeping generalizations regarding financial status is wrong. Private school does not equal old money.

sorry for the hijack, but this conversation was getting to me.

[banditone]

Originally Posted by gtdxeric

The other criteria you mentioned can be objectively measured. If your house has a $100,000 social budget, there's no arguing that it's more (and thereby better) than the one next door or across the state that has a $50K budget.

These, however, come down to opinion. Is it better to have a huge new house, like several of the FSU houses, or a classic, but smaller house, like Fiji at Texas? How much better or worse? What campus leadership roles actually "mean something"? Student government president is usually the consensus most prestigious position on a campus, but the level of respect definitely varies from campus to campus. This kind of stuff is why it's hard to directly compare/rank fraternities across the South, much less across the nation, and we haven't even gotten into the intangibles, like how many brothers are douchebags.

What I'm saying is, you can rank houses, but I'd say that only maybe half of the ranking can be made objectively. The other half is up to the individual.

Yes, we all get it. Everything is subjective. But you have to start somewhere, and we are by no means the authorities on this stuff. It's just conversation fodder.

[Army Wife'79]

Speaking of "old money" in the South I'm always curious to know if you consider them the ones who originally were large landholders BEFORE the Civil War or the Yankee carpetbaggers who came down and bought up all the land for back-taxes? Because, many of the true Southern families lost all/most their land/money after the war. What you call "old money" now may not be original Land Grant owners or appear in the 1850 Census. What is your timeframe of "old money"?

[ajuhdg]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I rank my own University low because it's being increasingly flooded with the Plano area of north Dallas and Northwest Arkansas. The Delta part of Arkansas is slowly dying out as people move away. We may sink further it seems.

What's wrong with people from Plano!?

Flame away here, but why is it so wrong for us to talk about 'Tiers'? They do exist, and it's a part of greek life whether or not we agree with the rankings or basis fro criteria. There was a post many moons ago about the tiers actually coming out in Texas Monthly magazine. I read the article recently describing the layout of the system at Cornell. I know we don't always get the most intelligent PNM's around here, but if we preface it with all the NPC spirit 'go in with an open-mind'. I guess on the one side I see how it can be hurtful to shallow people who take everything they read on line as the gospel. But, at the other side, we are here to discuss everything related to greek life. I just don't understand why 'Tiering' is like the uncle in prison, the one we all know about, but nobody ever brings up at the family reunion.

It just doesn't make sense to me that people are verbally attacked and chased off the forums for having an opinon about anything from Reality shows to alumnae initiation, but we can't talk about something like this. Why do we encourage 'users' of this site to have thick skin? I've been to the 'other' sites to read what people's opinions of DG are at other schools, and while it sucks to read that they are the 'crack whores' at one school and 'the fatties' at another, it doesn't hurt my own experience and opinion of what an awesome organization I belong to. (And, I KNOW that others aren't able to figure it out for themselves.)

Just something I was thinking about...

[banditone]

DG are hotties at my school

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ajuhdg

Flame away here, but why is it so wrong for us to talk about 'Tiers'?

Once you post on GC "XYZ is the sorority no one wants to join" it's on the internet forever. People can keep pullling that up when they google. There's a post on here about sororities at a competitive school that talks about the most unpopular house on campus from several years ago. Even though the chapter has turned around and is doing much better - people can still pull that up and still read that "XYZ is the weakest house at Google U."

Not only that - you have no idea who is writing what. The absurdity of this has been pointed out (i.e. me talking about how awesome the AXOs at my school were when we have no AXOs).

[banditone]

What's funny is that no one ever says "blah blah fraternity, the one no one wants to join". Or the like.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

EW and others, what makes you think that fraternity men in Arkansas are all from "old money"? "Old Money" in Arkansas is a topic I do not think you can speak about considering your age and experience.

I didn't say that they are "all" from old money. In fact, I made no references to anything about old money regarding private schools. Please actually read. I said the Delta is where old money can be found. Which is true. Highland Park is also a good place.

I said:

In terms of quality, it comes from the private schools in Dallas, Memphis and Little Rock aaaand the Delta. Which has no private schools, but has some old money (and some no money at all) schools like DeWitt, Stuttgart, Gillette, some Pine Bluff and mostly towns that are barely on the map.

Paraphrased: The majority of the good fraternity men come from private schools in Dallas, Memphis and Little Rock. The Delta is a good place as well, but it doesn't have private schools (it has a few, Lee Academy for one but that's a school of like 20 people). While it doesn't have private schools, it does have some old money mostly from cotton farming and so forth. Although, the University of Arkansas' fraternity systems valuation of Southeastern Arkansas guys is a bit higher than it should be, in my opinion.

Your comments regarding geographical distribution of members MIGHT be more accurate, but to make sweeping generalizations regarding financial status is wrong. Private school does not equal old money.

You made the generalization, not I.

Speaking of "old money" in the South I'm always curious to know if you consider them the ones who originally were large landholders BEFORE the Civil War or the Yankee carpetbaggers who came down and bought up all the land for back-taxes? Because, many of the true Southern families lost all/most their land/money after the war.

edit: I'm not going to discuss the definition of old money. It's not pertinent to the topic whatsoever. I wrote out a big long thing, but in the end it's not worth it.

How about we continue with what we're talking about...

We get great pledges from the Pensacola area. Tampa and Orlando can produce really solid guys too.

Pensacola seems like a solid place to rush having met a few of the locals...I'm still iffy on Tampa and Orlando, but I know there are still good areas throughout Florida, just getting scarcer it seems. Part of the reason I put Florida so low.

What's funny is that no one ever says "blah blah fraternity, the one no one wants to join". Or the like

That's why it drives me nuts that people want this thread shut down. As long as nobody gets us off topic, this is easily a very civil thread.