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  #16  
Old 02-22-2008, 02:15 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillini View Post
I've seen PNMs/new members announce at their new house during the Bid Day celebration that they didn't get their 1st choice. I've seen PNMs in tears having to be talked into putting a jersey on. Not the best way to start off one's membership even if it does end up working out for the best in the long run.
oooh, yipes, no, bad plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1908Revelations View Post
Excuse the crash, but I like what KSUViolet said as well as adpiucf.

Correct me if I am wrong, but on the pref card one should put Sororities that they actucally see themselves belonging to rather than fill up the card and see what you get, right? If that is the case someone getting their second choice should not be a big deal and if they didn't want them they had the choice to suicide, right?

Like KSU said, they better be happy they get in a house because some girls don't get picked at all.
I forget if this is a school rule or an NPC rule, but if you suicide/don't pref the max available you aren't eligible for snap bids. Then again, if you would take a snap bid from someone, you should put them on your list....it's just an issue of your not ranking them highly enough. (I hope that makes sense.)

Plus, don't some computer programs "kick out" women who suicide, or is that a myth?
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  #17  
Old 02-22-2008, 02:31 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post



Plus, don't some computer programs "kick out" women who suicide, or is that a myth?
This is a myth. ICS (the major computer recruitment program most schools use) does not do this.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2008, 02:33 PM
violetpretty violetpretty is offline
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It's just that women who suicide aren't eligible to be QAs. I can see where the myth comes from, though. It's easier to tell a PNM that the computer might reduce your chances of getting a bid if you suicide instead of trying to explain how bid matching and quota additions work.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2008, 02:39 PM
jwright25 jwright25 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
I forget if this is a school rule or an NPC rule, but if you suicide/don't pref the max available you aren't eligible for snap bids. Then again, if you would take a snap bid from someone, you should put them on your list....it's just an issue of your not ranking them highly enough. (I hope that makes sense.)
The NPC rule applies to ISP'ers being ineligible for Quota Additions. But it doesn't cover snap bidding. Technically, if a woman suicides and doesn't match, she is just unmatched and therefore eligible for snap bidding and/or COR. However, some schools may take that rule on out as you suggested, making ISP'ers ineligible for snap bidding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Plus, don't some computer programs "kick out" women who suicide, or is that a myth?
ICS doesn't and Campus Director (Innova) doesn't. But I'm not familiar with any others.
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2008, 03:16 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Originally Posted by jwright25 View Post
The NPC rule applies to ISP'ers being ineligible for Quota Additions. But it doesn't cover snap bidding. Technically, if a woman suicides and doesn't match, she is just unmatched and therefore eligible for snap bidding and/or COR. However, some schools may take that rule on out as you suggested, making ISP'ers ineligible for snap bidding.
Thanks for the clarification...it was all just "open bid" back in the day.
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  #21  
Old 02-22-2008, 06:30 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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If you don't really want your second and third choice, you probably shouldn't try to be a quota addition since there's no guarantee that you'll be a QA at the one chapter you like.

I think I would just have the recruitment counselors emphasize as much as possible that you can be matched to any group you list on the card. Have them talk about it several times throughout the process. Be honest and admit that leaving a chapter off the bid card doesn't affect your chances of getting a bid at the ones you do list if you really don't want the chapter you leave off.

My opinion may be biased by looking at the stats from the couple of campuses that release them to the public, but it seems like arranging bid events or bid card practices around the relatively small number of girls who don't get what they want is kind of a downer for everyone. It ought to be the case that we can assume that if the PNM listed the chapter, then she's happy that she matched. Let the celebration begin!

Sure, she may not think she's as happy as if she got her number one, but why approach things like "are you going be okay with this bid?' rather than "yea, you got this bid!" if the girl really can't do much about it anyway?
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  #22  
Old 02-22-2008, 06:35 PM
Benzgirl Benzgirl is offline
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This all seems a little foreign to me. I would have been happy to have either of my top two choices, and would have been ok with Number 3, also. Maybe it was because I was a Junior when I rushed and I was thrilled to have three very good houses to Pref.

We never really talked about it too much, but I don't remember anyone in my chapter mention that we were not their first choice. Of course, we never knew who was snapped up either.
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  #23  
Old 02-22-2008, 07:50 PM
ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Zillini View Post
This is probably going to come across as my being cold or heartless. Sure I'm sad for a PNM who doesn't get a bid at all or doesn't get her first choice. But you know what? Rejection is a part of life. I think maybe the bigger problem here is that society has gotten so concerned with protecting/promoting kids' self esteem that for many this is the first time they've ever faced failure or not gotten exactly what they wanted. If you don't learn that lesson at a young age, it's much harder to deal with when you are older. "Oh we don't keep score at our soccer games because everyone is a winner! Everyone gets a trophy just for showing up!"

Competition does not have to be an evil thing. Being rewarded for hard work or trying harder the next time or just not fitting in are things that all kids need to learn. Not getting what you want for whatever reason does not mean you are a bad person or that they are bad people for not wanting to give it to you. So if someone hasn't learned this lesson at age 18 or 19, maybe this is a good thing. How will they deal with rejection at age 22+ when they are 1 of 1,000 job applicants for only 10 entry level positions? Do employers need to provide counselors for the 990 who didn't get hired?

In the imortal words of the Rolling Stones: You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you just might find you get what you need.
That's kind of how I felt about it as well. We explained to every woman in the general meeting that they weren't guaranteed a bid. If they had bad grades, there was next to no chance of getting one. And they might not get their first choice. If they can't handle the possibility of rejection they may want to try again at another time.

It's negative, yeah, but it's reality.

We're told not to encourage suiciding...personally I don't have a problem with it. I did it. But I did have a girl tell me after she got invited back to only two that she couldn't possibly take a bid from her second choice. I told her that yes, it was an option to put down only one sorority, but that she'd be dropped from recruitment if she didn't get matched up. She ended up deciding that she wanted to be in a sorority badly enough to think twice about her second choice...she got it and now loves it. And that's just the way it goes sometimes.
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  #24  
Old 02-25-2008, 07:12 PM
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AOII Angel AOII Angel is offline
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I think the vast majority of women who get their second choice are okay and no one ever knows they didn't suicide their chapter! Only on occasion does a PNM become despondant over getting her second choice, and in my experience it's people who thought they had an "in" with the chapter. I've told this story before...we had a NM who came down our hall crying her eyes out because Phi Mu didn't give her a bid as a double legacy. Oh boo hoo. I pulled her aside and said, very bluntly, "Stop the crying. I understand you are hurt and confused, but there is no changing that you didn't get a bid to Phi Mu. If you keep acting this way, you are going to ruin any chances that you will ever fit in with the group that actually wants you. Dry your eyes, wash your face and put on a big smile. Enjoy today, and you can figure out tomorrow what you're going to do. Just don't ruin today for the girls that are excited to be here!" She stopped crying and did what I said. Her major issue was shock and a feeling that she failed her bio sisters who were Phi Mu's from another chapter. Her mother had actually redecorated her room at home in pink and lions! Her sisters were extremely supportive and told her that they were happy she was an AOII. They even sent her a basket of red AOII items. She is a great AOII to this day. Some people just are not able to hide their emotions well.
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  #25  
Old 02-25-2008, 08:09 PM
ree-Xi ree-Xi is offline
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The practical part of me asks, if you aren't going to be happy with your second or third choice, why do you list it? If I could choose 3, and could not see myself as happy getting into three groups, I would only list 2.

The emotional side of me understands that it can be hard to "instantly" be psyched with #2 if you obviously had a #1 in your heart. Like, if you audition for a play, and you don't get the lead, but a supporting role, you are probably going to be disappointed at first. But most people didn't get a real part.

I think the important part for the PNM is to realize that someone really wanted them. And that some girls, maybe a lot of girls, didn't get chosen at all.

Recognize the situation for what it IS and not for what it ISN't. What it "IS or "WAS" for me - *I* was invited to be part of a very close, very special group. In the vastness of the school, the world - these girls chose ME to be one of them -for the rest of our academic careers, for life. I was, and still am, deeply honored. Especially because so many years later, these girls still want me.

My advice, then, is to accept what DO have, and an invitation to an Inter/national, lifelong sisterhood is an amazing gift. And honestly, given how little time most PNMs have with the groups during rush, the difference between their top two is mostly in their minds.
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  #26  
Old 02-25-2008, 08:52 PM
gee_ess gee_ess is offline
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The pnm's are really not "allowed" to leave a pref unranked. First, if they are invited back to two houses, they MUST attend those two parties or be dropped from rush. Then, they do everything humanly possible to discourage the pnm from listing only one house on her bid card - even when the girl clearly feels that she only wants one of the houses. So, that can sometimes lead to a girl ranking her houses with the strong feeling that all she wants is first choice and is only ranking number two to keep the Gamma Chi happy.

That aside, my original post was not intended to suggest that we change the way bids are distributed based on these few girls who are disappointed, but to ask what can the chapter or, better yet, PANHLLENIC do as a follow up for these girls. I'm talking about an extra conversation that may, as one of you noted, be a "buck up" speech. Or a pep talk or a time to convince her to count her blessings, etc.

But, if you don't know who those girls are, then you don't know who to reach out to and you risk them feeling unhappy about the sorority from the get go and that (imo) can lead to an unhappy pledge experience. Which gets into the whole 6 week pledgeship vs semester and is another topic for another time!
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  #27  
Old 02-25-2008, 09:27 PM
violetpretty violetpretty is offline
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Originally Posted by gee_ess View Post
The pnm's are really not "allowed" to leave a pref unranked. First, if they are invited back to two houses, they MUST attend those two parties or be dropped from rush. Then, they do everything humanly possible to discourage the pnm from listing only one house on her bid card - even when the girl clearly feels that she only wants one of the houses. So, that can sometimes lead to a girl ranking her houses with the strong feeling that all she wants is first choice and is only ranking number two to keep the Gamma Chi happy.

That aside, my original post was not intended to suggest that we change the way bids are distributed based on these few girls who are disappointed, but to ask what can the chapter or, better yet, PANHLLENIC do as a follow up for these girls. I'm talking about an extra conversation that may, as one of you noted, be a "buck up" speech. Or a pep talk or a time to convince her to count her blessings, etc.

But, if you don't know who those girls are, then you don't know who to reach out to and you risk them feeling unhappy about the sorority from the get go and that (imo) can lead to an unhappy pledge experience. Which gets into the whole 6 week pledgeship vs semester and is another topic for another time!
I don't think that a Rho Gamma that forces her PNMs to rank all of her preference chapters regardless of their feelings really has the best interests of her PNMs or the chapters. Of course, she should explain the possible scenarios to the PNM with her choices, but ultimately, neither a Rho Gamma nor a campus Panhellenic can force a PNM to rank all preference chapters.

Like I said before, this is why the women need to open their bids in relative privacy (i.e. with her Rho Gamma and no other PNMs). During the course of recruitment, a good Rho Gamma will be approachable and available and she will check in with each of her PNMs. A good Rho Gamma will know if there is potential for a PNM of hers to be upset about her bid, and she should be able to read her PNM's facial expression when opening the envelope.

With the situation I talked about earlier, all the NM needed was a talk to readjust her perspective. She was focusing on what she DIDN'T have instead of what she DID have. She was fine after that.
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Last edited by violetpretty; 02-25-2008 at 09:52 PM.
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  #28  
Old 03-01-2008, 03:23 AM
brunetteddd brunetteddd is offline
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At my school, you go to up to 2 sororities for Pref Round. That being said, when you rank on your bid card, you can technically put down all 4 sororities on campus (but that's only if you were invited back to all 4 at one point and declined the other 2 "with interest"). We rank these on our own time in relative privacy, but are allowed to consult with our Gamma Chi (or another Gamma Chi, because as we all know, sometimes there's one that you get along better with than your own, in my case, the Gamma Chi my roommate was assigned to sorta took me under her wing due to my own GC being a little over scheduled and had little time for her GC group; but I digress).

On Bid Day, we wait in a room and are lined up alphabetically by GC group. You're called out into a hallway one by one, and in said hallway you're handed your bid card by someone in Panhellenic Council. You open it, read it, they ask you if you accept, and then a) if you do, you immediately run out to your new sisters, b) if you don't, you leave through the back, and c) if you need more time, you can step aside and think about it "in privacy" (which I stress isn't very private, you just sorta stand off to one side of the hallway).

I think it's a relatively good process, the only thing is that it all happens so fast that you really don't have time to mentally process what's happened in the way of bids that were extended to you. From my experience, I had a hard time with ranking my #1 and #2; I ended up only getting a bid from one of them (which I had ranked #2). But looking back on it, I am EXTREMELY happy that it turned out the way it did; I love my sisters and, looking at the other sorority I had ranked on my card, I know things for sure worked out for the best for me (I loved alot of the older girls in that sorority, but I feel like I would have had difficulties fitting in with the pledge class I would have been a part of).

So the long and short of it - even if you don't get your #1, at least try it out for the pledge period. You may find that you are really in the right place, and if not, you don't have to become a fully initiated member.
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  #29  
Old 03-01-2008, 10:35 AM
gee_ess gee_ess is offline
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So the long and short of it - even if you don't get your #1, at least try it out for the pledge period. You may find that you are really in the right place, and if not, you don't have to become a fully initiated member.
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That is exactly the advice I would give a pnm in that situation, and isn't it nice that you had a moment to think about it when you received your bid card. Maybe someone even said those exact words to you on bid day.

On some campuses, the pnm's (roughly 400 girls) are given their bid cards in a large area where all the members are also in attendance (along with family, friends, etc - it is a big spectator sport) and on the count of three, they open their bid cards. Then, the screaming and hugging and chaos begins...Girls who get their second choice are left to their own devices - sure it works out fine for most. I just feel that our PC sort of washes their hands of the entire process from that moment on.
It's like rowing someone to the middle of a lake and then handing them the oars and jumping overboard. "Thanks for playing, pnm's. We have no more services, or help, or emotional support from this point forward. "
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  #30  
Old 03-01-2008, 07:35 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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Originally Posted by gee_ess View Post
So the long and short of it - even if you don't get your #1, at least try it out for the pledge period. You may find that you are really in the right place, and if not, you don't have to become a fully initiated member.
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That is exactly the advice I would give a pnm in that situation, and isn't it nice that you had a moment to think about it when you received your bid card. Maybe someone even said those exact words to you on bid day.

On some campuses, the pnm's (roughly 400 girls) are given their bid cards in a large area where all the members are also in attendance (along with family, friends, etc - it is a big spectator sport) and on the count of three, they open their bid cards. Then, the screaming and hugging and chaos begins...Girls who get their second choice are left to their own devices - sure it works out fine for most. I just feel that our PC sort of washes their hands of the entire process from that moment on.
It's like rowing someone to the middle of a lake and then handing them the oars and jumping overboard. "Thanks for playing, pnm's. We have no more services, or help, or emotional support from this point forward. "
But to be honest, it IS over from their perspective. Once the bids are issued, there's nothing else that can change other than the new member's feelings. You could continue to offer advice and counseling, but it's a lot to ask of rho gammas in my opinion that they would be expected to continue to remain mentally and emotionally disaffiliated enough that they could counsel girls who are new members of other groups.

I think that maybe the way to address this issue, from the PC angle, is to talk about it more during recruitment, so they have some ideas already about what they should do.

Maybe put the realistic information out there about whether re-rushing is a realistic option on your campus: some places it may actually be the case that a girl can decline a bid or drop out during the pledge period and get a different bid, but other campuses, it's not very likely to happen.

Last edited by UGAalum94; 03-01-2008 at 07:39 PM.
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