How Moms Should Treat Their Legacy Daughters

[dgdramadawg]

Okay, story, then a question:

I recently spoke with a girl from my church who will be going through recruitment at an SEC school in the fall. Her mom was Greek at this school, but she decided to ask me for some recruitment advice. Even though I did not attend the school the PNM will be rushing at, I gave her the usual standard SEC recruitment advice and told her that she might want to ask her mom for more information specific to this school.

Then I offered to write her a recommendation for Delta Gamma, and she responded: "My mom won't let me get recommendations for other chapters because she says the only one she will pay for me to be in is [her own chapter]."

This is an SEC school with what is considered a VERY competitive recruitment. The PNM's mother is a member of a very sought-after chapter on that campus, and being a legacy does not in any way guarantee this PNM a bid in any situation, but especially when she is an out-of-state PNM who knows no one in the chapter.

1. WHY would this mom sabotage her daughter's recruitment by refusing to allow her daughter to seek recommendations for or even consider membership in any other chapter?

2. The larger issue: I would expect that most mothers would love for their daughters to join them as sisters... but how should moms treat their legacy daughters with respect to recruitment? Is there a way for a mother to encourage her daughter to consider her own house more heavily without destroying her chances at every other house on campus?

[Jen]

Mom is delusional and thinks her daughter will be a shoo-in because she's a legacy. Mom will probably go ape-shit when daughter doesn't get invites, all because mom was a selfish, under-informed twit. I suspect even if someone tells her the protocol with recs and SEC schools, she won't believe it.

Daughter should get some recs on the down low ASAP.

I think if a mother has good experiences to share about her time in the sorority, is still an involved alumna member and this has been known by the daughter all her life, it will naturally influence the daughter. A mother who is also open and knows that the daughter may find the same thing with another group will likely make the daughter comfortable as well.

The last thing you want would be a mother so hellbent and uptight about the daughter joining her group that she makes the daughter terrified to "fail" at recruitment, thus guaranteeing she gets no bids because she can't be relaxed and herself during any recruitment parties. Or it just naturally makes the daughter not want to go greek at all just to defy mom.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

Okay, story, then a question:

I recently spoke with a girl from my church who will be going through recruitment at an SEC school in the fall. Her mom was Greek at this school, but she decided to ask me for some recruitment advice. Even though I did not attend the school the PNM will be rushing at, I gave her the usual standard SEC recruitment advice and told her that she might want to ask her mom for more information specific to this school.

Then I offered to write her a recommendation for Delta Gamma, and she responded: "My mom won't let me get recommendations for other chapters because she says the only one she will pay for me to be in is [her own chapter]."

This is an SEC school with what is considered a VERY competitive recruitment. The PNM's mother is a member of a very sought-after chapter on that campus, and being a legacy does not in any way guarantee this PNM a bid in any situation, but especially when she is an out-of-state PNM who knows no one in the chapter.

1. WHY would this mom sabotage her daughter's recruitment by refusing to allow her daughter to seek recommendations for or even consider membership in any other chapter?

2. The larger issue: I would expect that most mothers would love for their daughters to join them as sisters... but how should moms treat their legacy daughters with respect to recruitment? Is there a way for a mother to encourage her daughter to consider her own house more heavily without destroying her chances at every other house on campus?

1. I bet mom doesn't know that she is sabotaging her daughter's recruitment. Odds are, in her chapter, while she was there legacy=in. She's probably not aware of how things have changed. Also possible is that she really only would want her daughter in her GLO and doesn't care about her daughter's happiness beyond that.

2. I think moms can talk up their college sorority experience, their philanthropy and the reasons why XYZ was good for them. But they shouldn't push or pressure or expect that their daughter fits into the XYZ niche at Campus U. I do like that so many of our national sites have links for parents to read, but I think the college panhellenics may need to reach out to the parents more in these cases. They have to learn about how things have changed somehow. (And obviously moms need to be willing to listen to college panhellenics too)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

1. I bet mom doesn't know that she is sabotaging her daughter's recruitment. Odds are, in her chapter, while she was there legacy=in. She's probably not aware of how things have changed.

This is what I was thinking -- time warp.

dgdramadawg, how well do you know the mom? Do you think you could have a conversation with her that doesn't reveal anything daughter told you other than that's she's going through recruitment? Somethink like, "Daughter told me she's rushing/going through recruitment at SEC school! I know you'd be thrilled if she joined your chapter there. It's too bad times have changed and being a legacy doesn't have the same weight it used to . . . ." See where it goes from there?

2. I think moms can talk up their college sorority experience, their philanthropy and the reasons why XYZ was good for them.

Lane swerving big time, and merely FWIW, but in my experience with friends and family who are in NPC sororities, philanthropy was not a big deal back in the day. By that, I certainly don't mean that doing charitable/philanthropic things weren't a big deal. They were. I mean rush didn't include a philanthropy round (I don't think), and the idea of connecting with a particular group because you liked their philanthropy just didn't seem to be part of the picture at all. While I may have been ignorant, I don't remember particular sororities being associated with particular philanthropies.* GC introduced me to the current importance of that idea.

Maybe I just wasn't noticing, though.

/back to my lane.

*ETA: The major exception to this was Pi Beta Phi and Arrowmont.

[Drolefille]

No, you're probably right MC, I just included it for the sake of completeness.

[33girl]

No, you can ride in our lane, MC. I know that the philanthropy had zero to do with the sorority I joined. I think if, say, you had someone near you go through breast cancer it can maybe make you look twice at ZTA if you hadn't before, but when it comes down to it I would say maybe 0.00001% of girls join because of the group's philanthropy.

As for deludanoid mom:

1) Show her some of the "my perfect daughter got cut" stories on here. Tell her she is setting her daughter up to fail, period. Not only that, what if she hates mom's sorority and they hate her? Even if she gets in or Mom buffaloes her in, no one will be happy. Then again I don't think that sort of parent really cares about their child's happiness, they care about them being the perfect ornament to show their "accomplishment" of child rearing.*

2) "I would love it if you pledged the same group I did, because I've gotten so much happiness and so many lifelong friends from it. However, I know that campuses are different/chapters change over time and I want you to join the group that will make you the most content. So don't get too focused on XYZ."

Also: if Mom has a Facebook page and is reconnecting with her college friends, it can help to show Daughter how many of those friends were from different sororities and not just her own. In other words, this is not just lip service about other chapters being awesome.

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think if, say, you had someone near you go through breast cancer it can maybe make you look twice at ZTA if you hadn't before, but when it comes down to it I would say maybe 0.00001% of girls join because of the group's philanthropy.

I do know one newly-minted alumna for whom Pi Phi's association with literacy was a bid attraction.

Originally Posted by 33girl

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

Yes! If you're going to claim anything having to do with your children as an accomplishment, it should be "my greatest accomplishment is not screwing up parenting too much."

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Lane swerving big time, and merely FWIW, but in my experience with friends and family who are in NPC sororities, philanthropy was not a big deal back in the day. By that, I certainly don't mean that doing charitable/philanthropic things weren't a big deal. They were. I mean rush didn't include a philanthropy round (I don't think), and the idea of connecting with a particular group because you liked their philanthropy just didn't seem to be part of the picture at all. While I may have been ignorant, I don't remember particular sororities being associated with particular philanthropies. GC introduced me to the current importance of that idea.

Maybe I just wasn't noticing, though.

/back to my lane.

No, you are correct.

I was in college during the early 90s and there was no philanthropy round and most chapters on my campus did not even have a signature philanthropy event. DG had anchorsplash, which I think may have been a national thing, but beyond that I don't remember a single other event and we had 10 chapters. It wasn't that we weren't good people- we were!- but we obtained our service hours through individual service projects. However, service hours were not something that was highlighted during recruitment, and my favorable memories of sorority life do not really include them.

Back to the original post, a few things. First, I find the story completely heartbreaking for that PNM. Mommy really needs to get a grip and start letting daughter live her own life. I can't believe that someone would be selfish enough to actually put that type of pressure on their own child.

The suggestions to talk with the mom are excellent. Times have completely changed and most of that generation have not kept up. OP- do you think mom is nutty enough to really follow through with the threat of not paying? I was going to suggest that you help her get the other recs, but what if she gets a bid to a different group? Would she have to depledge because the PNM alone can't afford SEC dues?

ETA: everyone must type fast than I do. Sorry for the repeat info.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by 33girl

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

YES. If it's really true, you are a sad person. I'm proud of my daughter*, but her accomplishments are HERS, not mine. I have my own accomplishments.


*I'm proud of the son, too. However, potty training is his biggest accomplishment so far, and if it becomes the greatest accomplishment of his life, I may have to rescind that. Just kidding. (Kind of )

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

It's comments like this that make me wish I could "like" comments on GC.

I don't know the mom super well, just the daughter through her older sister (who I taught and who - apparently mercifully - went to a school without Greek life). I don't want to be pushy with the mom since I don't know her all that well, but I did tell the PNM to keep in mind that both my sister and I were cut by our legacy chapter at Bama and UGA. She seemed surprised and told me she would tell her mom.

I was also thinking that maybe this mom IS well-informed and thus knows that the campus in question has guaranteed bidding for PNMs who maximize their options. Maybe she is counting on her daughter being cut by all of the other houses since she won't have recs and will be at a disadvantage... and then her legacy chapter will have to take her in the end if they are the only one left?

I don't know what she's thinking... she seems like a bright woman and I just can't imagine she believes her daughter is a shoo-in.

I spoke to alumnae from a couple of other sororities who know the PNM (and now know the crazy situation), and we are all planning on writing recs for the girl without the girl or mom knowing. Hopefully this will at least prevent a total disaster in August, and she won't get in trouble for seeking recs when her mom told her not to.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

Okay, story, then a question:

I recently spoke with a girl from my church who will be going through recruitment at an SEC school in the fall. Her mom was Greek at this school, but she decided to ask me for some recruitment advice. Even though I did not attend the school the PNM will be rushing at, I gave her the usual standard SEC recruitment advice and told her that she might want to ask her mom for more information specific to this school.

Then I offered to write her a recommendation for Delta Gamma, and she responded: "My mom won't let me get recommendations for other chapters because she says the only one she will pay for me to be in is [her own chapter]."

This is an SEC school with what is considered a VERY competitive recruitment. The PNM's mother is a member of a very sought-after chapter on that campus, and being a legacy does not in any way guarantee this PNM a bid in any situation, but especially when she is an out-of-state PNM who knows no one in the chapter.

1. WHY would this mom sabotage her daughter's recruitment by refusing to allow her daughter to seek recommendations for or even consider membership in any other chapter? I sure hope that mom is not deliberately trying to sabotage daughters chances-although she is on the right track if that is what she is trying to do. i hope that you can formulate some kind of conversation that will bring up rush and tell mom you would be happy to write a delta gamma rec. for daughter, and you have friends in adb, de and fgh sororities that you would be glad to pass on her information to. mom either has to accept your help, or lie to you that the recs. are already taken care of. you could then talk about how brutal SEC University's rush can be for girls who don't have recs., etc., etc., etc.

2. The larger issue: I would expect that most mothers would love for their daughters to join them as sisters... but how should moms treat their legacy daughters with respect to recruitment? Is there a way for a mother to encourage her daughter to consider her own house more heavily without destroying her chances at every other house on campus?

]I was hoping that my daughter would like zta the best and it would work out for her to pledge, but we made sure she had multiple recs. to all the chapters and i told her that she needed to find the place that was right for her. and had it been some other sorority, i would have sent an arrangment of those flowers to her and done some online shopping for owls, pandas, ladybugs or lions!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

I was also thinking that maybe this mom IS well-informed and thus knows that the campus in question has guaranteed bidding for PNMs who maximize their options. Maybe she is counting on her daughter being cut by all of the other houses since she won't have recs and will be at a disadvantage... and then her legacy chapter will have to take her in the end if they are the only one left?

The only guarantee is "if you go back to everywhere you're invited to you'll get a bid." You're not guaranteed to get those invites to begin with. If the chapter has 359 legacies they like more than her, she could be SOL.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The only guarantee is "if you go back to everywhere you're invited to you'll get a bid." You're not guaranteed to get those invites to begin with. If the chapter has 359 legacies they like more than her, she could be SOL.

Very true... just trying to get inside the mom's head.

I might try to bring it up with the mom if I happen to run into her, but I don't want to call her out of the blue to tell her I think she's delusional (not in so many words, but you know what I mean). I worry that she'll think I'm just trying to tell her that I know her alma mater better than she does (which, clearly, I do).

[BeeBee23]

ew, this woman is a wee bit crazy. If the daughter is open to other chapters than the one her mom was in, maybe just keep going with the plan to secure recs without her knowing. Do you know if she has any interest in pledging one of the non-legacy houses?

She might get lucky and have all of the other chapters assume she will be going to her legacy house and thus cut her, but since she'll be at an SEC school anything can happen.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

Very true... just trying to get inside the mom's head.

I might try to bring it up with the mom if I happen to run into her, but I don't want to call her out of the blue to tell her I think she's delusional (not in so many words, but you know what I mean). I worry that she'll think I'm just trying to tell her that I know her alma mater better than she does (which, clearly, I do).

Perhaps you could very innocently call the mother and say you'd be so happy to sponsor Susie to DG if she doesn't already have a DG one and ask her to send you the girl's resume. I doubt she'll tell you that she's not letting the girl get any other recs outside her legacy group!