the life and times of gay fraternity brothers

hoosier · #1 09-30-2005, 11:14 PM

Gay Greek life 101
New book focuses on the life and times of gay fraternity brothers

By KATHERINE VOLIN - Washington Blade
Friday, September 30, 2005

NOT EVERYONE ACKNOWLEDGES this in college, but we all know there are gay men in fraternities. Openly gay or in the closet, they are there living their lives like everyone else.

Shane Windmeyer’s proof is in the publishing of two books on this topic.

Windmeyer, a 32-year-old resident of Charlotte, N.C., came out to his fraternity brothers 11 years ago, while he was a junior at Emporia State University in Emporia, Kan. His positive experience as a gay man in a fraternity led him in 1995 to found the Lambda 10 Project, an educational organization he operates for gay, lesbian and bisexual fraternity and sorority members.

Windmeyer also edited two books on the subject: “Out on Fraternity Row: Personal Accounts of Being Gay in a College Fraternity,” in 1998, and his new book, “Brotherhood: Gay Life in College Fraternities,” which is to be released Oct. 1.

“Brotherhood” examines the roles of homophobic hazing, religion, sexual experimentation, among other topics pertaining to fraternity life. The book is comprised of a collection of first-hand accounts.

Windmeyer is scheduled to read from the new book tonight at Lambda Rising.

Washington Blade: Certainly, some fraternities have the reputation of being homophobic. What made you want to join one?

Shane Windmeyer: Well, I wasn’t out at the time. I was very much in the closet. It was back in 1992 when I actually joined the fraternity. In many ways, subconsciously, I think men joined frats to get rid of their sexuality, to hide their gayness.

I was looking for an opportunity to be normal, to be accepted, so joining a fraternity was probably the most heterosexist thing I could do in college.
Blade: Do you think other gay men join fraternities for the same reasons?

Windmeyer: Oh, definitely. When I first came out, there was definitely a theme of men joining fraternities as a way of coping with their sexuality, of dealing with their gayness. That was part of the denial. Even in my new book, ‘Brotherhood,’ that’s still a [subtle]

theme. However, there are new issues that build on [this] theme.

Blade: What are those new issues?

Windmeyer: Some of the new issues are kind of taboo issues or startling issues that are sort of reminders of where we still are in our society. Many guys rushing now are not hiding their sexuality [and then don’t get in fraternities] because of that gay label.

The other issue, which is prevalent, is that they are outed in the rush process.

The men who rush openly gay, they [tag them with] a gay label; they don’t know him as an individual, as a person, as a gay brother.

The other larger issue that we sometimes forget about is that men ages 18-24 are very sexually active, and there’s no reason why gay men 18-24 are not as sexually active as their straight counterparts.

What if I fall in love with a brother? What if we are sexually active, is that good for the brotherhood?

Those are questions that we need to be dealing with over the next 10 years.

Blade: Kansas has a reputation for being a conservative state. Do you think that environment made it more difficult for you to come out?

Windmeyer: Oh, definitely. I went to school at Emporia State. There were not any out gay people on campus, other than this one guy who was a theater major. He wore this skirt and striped stockings as he biked across campus. He had a little bag that said “Boy Toy” on the side. He was a great guy, but I was like, ‘God, if I’m that, that’s not me.’

Blade: You say that coming out to your fraternity was one of your most rewarding undergraduate experiences. Why is that?

Windmeyer: It really helped me develop as a man, and that’s what fraternities really are about is bringing men together. It helped me understand who I was.

If I had waited until after I left and graduated from college, they wouldn’t have known me as Shane in all my respects.

Luckily for me, my fraternity accepted me without any question. And for1994 that was really something. It’s because of straight men. Straight men are the ones who gave me the respect and pride to be gay today and be proud of that.

George W. Bush was in a fraternity, and granted he was in a fraternity 20 years before I was, but imagine politicians in fraternities with gay men. And fraternities, like it or not, turn out a large degree of our leaders in business and politicians today.

Blade: Are there accounts of gay sexual encounters in the book?

Windmeyer: At the end of the book, we actually asked some questions about sexual experimentation and whether that’s something we should be concerned about. In one chapter, “Questions of Love and Loyalty,” there are six stories that have some steamy accounts of men who fall in love.

Coramoor · #2 09-30-2005, 11:22 PM

Quote:

In many ways, subconsciously, I think men joined frats to get rid of their sexuality, to hide their gayness.

This kind of caught my eye. I don't doubt that this may be the case in some instances...but I see this as implying that many men join frats to hide being gay. That's something that I have a very hard time believing.

Firehouse · #3 09-30-2005, 11:52 PM

I really hate to see gay men being sold this bill of goods, i.e. the subliminal suggestion that if they reveal themselves or "come out" to their fraternity brothers then all will be welcoming and forgiving.
Just about the only place I can see this happening is in a chapter that is uncompetitive and low ranking already. I have seen recently on the campus where I live the effects of a fraternity pledging men who were either openly homosexual, or found out to be that way. Their rivals are unmerciful, and the members are violently split in their reactions. The individual gay members then become lightening rods for anything bad that happens.
The truth is - in spite of what the popular media implies is the norm - healthy young heterosexual college men traditionally do not want close association with open homos within the confines of a fraternity house, and are extremely uncomfortable with it.
When I ws an undergraduate, we had members in the chapter that we suspected were homosexual, but we never asked, and they had the good grace and fraternalism to play the manly role while they were in school. It's a matter of getting along and not making your friends uncomfortable.
I think Coramoor is right: gay men join fraternities for the same reason the rest of us do: friendship, social outlets, networks, acceptance of peers. If revealing their behavior is going to cause trouble, they should recognize that and simply remain quiet.

PhoenixAzul · #4 10-01-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Firehouse
I really hate to see gay men being sold this bill of goods, i.e. the subliminal suggestion that if they reveal themselves or "come out" to their fraternity brothers then all will be welcoming and forgiving.
Just about the only place I can see this happening is in a chapter that is uncompetitive and low ranking already. I have seen recently on the campus where I live the effects of a fraternity pledging men who were either openly homosexual, or found out to be that way. Their rivals are unmerciful, and the members are violently split in their reactions. The individual gay members then become lightening rods for anything bad that happens.
The truth is - in spite of what the popular media implies is the norm - healthy young heterosexual college men traditionally do not want close association with open homos within the confines of a fraternity house, and are extremely uncomfortable with it.
When I ws an undergraduate, we had members in the chapter that we suspected were homosexual, but we never asked, and they had the good grace and fraternalism to play the manly role while they were in school. It's a matter of getting along and not making your friends uncomfortable.
I think Coramoor is right: gay men join fraternities for the same reason the rest of us do: friendship, social outlets, networks, acceptance of peers. If revealing their behavior is going to cause trouble, they should recognize that and simply remain quiet.

I thank God that Otterbein isn't anything like this. Every single fraternity, the largest, the smallest, the oldest and the youngest, ALL have gay men (openly so) in them. All are given the same rights as brothers, some live in their houses and find it a very comfortable place to bond with their brothers. A good portion of the sororities also have lesbian members, who are still treated exactly the same. A member is a member, and honestly, I don't think that homophobia has any place in my bylaws or sorority. If chapter members want to start fights and create internal problems over admitting a certain member ...they can turn in their pins and hit the road, no loss to us. I'd rather have the rest of the campus laugh at us for accepting a gay member than reject the sisterhood, friendship, and service that she would offer. And asking her to deny who she for sake of some stupid tier system is asking her to be half a member. Our motto set down by our founders damn near 90 years ago says "And This Above All, To Thine Own Self Be True", and I'm not going to have our 103 year old founder coming after us for going against that motto. Ain't doin' it. We bid girls for EVERYTHING they are, not what everyone thinks they should be.

</soapbox>

FSUZeta · #5 10-01-2005, 08:57 AM

those are your feelings and that is fine and they are valid. firehouse and coramoor shared their feelings and that is fine too and their feelings are also valid. everyone is entitled to their own opinion and sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

Senusret I · #6 10-01-2005, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Firehouse
If revealing their behavior is going to cause trouble, they should recognize that and simply remain quiet.

Anyone who can't accept their brother for who they are doesn't really need to be in a fraternity at all.

ilovetheviolets · #7 10-01-2005, 11:05 AM

I have to post on this because one of my closest college friends is gay. He got a bid to his fraternity, one of the most competetive. When they found out, it was not a big deal, he was still treated exactly the same. If anything, more girls went there because he was friends with all of them. Now, I don't see why a Fraternity would not want more girls going to their parties?? My school is small, but the male greek system is OLD! We have a lot of the earliest chapters at F&M, a strong history of brotherhood. Now, his brothers took him in, and accepted the knowledge that he was gay, ALL OF THEM DID! He did not have to play a role, and I question if a brotherhood is true if a brother is not able to accept each and every brother, and they feel they have to "play a manly role"...I feel sorry for the people that cannot accept a person for who they are.

DSTCHAOS · #8 10-01-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ilovetheviolets
I have to post on this because one of my closest college friends is gay. He got a bid to his fraternity, one of the most competetive. When they found out, it was not a big deal, he was still treated exactly the same. If anything, more girls went there because he was friends with all of them. Now, I don't see why a Fraternity would not want more girls going to their parties??

Are they accepting him as a brother or as a tool to get more women to come around?

Not the same thing.

DSTCHAOS · #9 10-01-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coramoor
This kind of caught my eye. I don't doubt that this may be the case in some instances...but I see this as implying that many men join frats to hide being gay. That's something that I have a very hard time believing.

If you consider that fraternities have traditionally been the ultimate "heterosexual college male experience," joining fraternities to conform to a hetero-masculine standard doesn't seem unrealistic in a large percentage of cases across the country.

ilovetheviolets · #10 10-01-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
Are they accepting him as a brother or as a tool to get more women to come around?

Not the same thing.

They did not use him as a tool...he didn't go around saying "I'm a ______ brother!! Come to this house" and the brothers didn't say anything about it either. It wasn't even a common topic of conversation. Many people did not know for a long time, even though he was open about it. I simply used it as a response to people saying they would not want an openly gay brother in their fraternity, and how it didn't/doesn't hurt the image. Plus, you do not "use" your friends as tools...but that's just my opinion.

DSTCHAOS · #11 10-03-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ilovetheviolets
They did not use him as a tool...he didn't go around saying "I'm a ______ brother!! Come to this house" and the brothers didn't say anything about it either. It wasn't even a common topic of conversation. Many people did not know for a long time, even though he was open about it. I simply used it as a response to people saying they would not want an openly gay brother in their fraternity, and how it didn't/doesn't hurt the image.

Well, actually you stated "If anything, more girls went there because he was friends with all of them. Now, I don't see why a Fraternity would not want more girls going to their parties." That's why I asked. You said he was friends with a bunch of the females.

I know people who aren't gay but were accepted because their membership could possibly benefit the chapter in some (often superficial) way. I don't want to get off topic but I think issues of acceptance, diversity, and tolerance should be looked at critically.

SirHornyToad · #12 10-03-2005, 12:59 PM

Isn't it better in general to be friends with the guys that know all the girls, straight or gay?

DSTCHAOS · #13 10-03-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirHornyToad
Isn't it better in general to be friends with the guys that know all the girls, straight or gay?

Is that the motivation/foundation of the friendship or interaction?

SirHornyToad · #14 10-03-2005, 07:29 PM

not at all, the guy could be a complete asshole and not worthy of a second of my friendship. On the otherhand we all have those friends that bring the girls with um, and it's nice to have them around, was all i was sayin.

Zippy Zamboni · #15 02-13-2006, 10:27 PM

I love this thread!