Alabama recruitment fall-out

[33girl]

But all of that also applies to first generation college students and students whose parents are unfamiliar with a super competitive rush like Alabama's. You can't tell me that the black woman whose grandfather was a trustee was clueless regarding recommendations and/or unable to secure them for every group.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But all of that also applies to first generation college students and students whose parents are unfamiliar with a super competitive rush like Alabama's.

No. Not in the same way. The first generation college student from a predominantly white community will have teachers, community leaders, etc. who were in NPC groups. A woman from a predominantly AA community will not.

[DrPhil]

It is important to remember generalizations are not intended to (and do not) apply 100%.

There are some women from predominantly African American communities** who have access to these resources just as there are first generation white college students who do not have access or have minimal access.


**especially if a family member was a trustee. There are predominantly African American communities that are not struggling and dilapidated. Therefore resources are more accessible because forms of capital potentially buffer some of the effects of racial exclusion and discrimination. Those resources can be used to access predominantly Black institutions and organizations and/or predominantly white institutions and organizations. It is also possible that someone from a struggling community has a mentor/school counselor/teacher who has assisted with college and GLO interests. The reduced likelihood of these things should not be confused with the impossibility of these things.

/carry on....

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by tld221

That's what I got out of that anecdote. "Wonderful immigrant man from South American country" was PC for "(possibly) illegal amigo from disadvantaged circumstances had a daughter who beat the odds, so it IS possible! And I knew him!"

I think that many are probably reluctant to enter discussions like these due to the risk (probability, even) of having their comments misconstrued (the feeling that whatever they say will be pointed out as offensive, wrong, rooted in racism, etc). In order to have a productive discussion, it is important that all participants put aside preconceived notions and judgment about other’s intent.

Did you get anything from the research article I posted earlier? What did you think?

Originally Posted by tld221

Also. As someone who was interested in NPC greek life (well, being greek generally, but initially exposed and sought out NPC first) I couldn't have told you WHERE to find an NPC alumna. I had enough white teachers but how would I know, as a first-generation college hopeful, how to navigate all the preparation to become greek? I legitimately did not consider greek life until I got on campus. Thankfully I didn't attend a school like Alabama (super informal, no big houses, etc) but if I had, I'd have been SOL. Who would've primed me on tent talk, recs, and what to wear?

Especially since the Internet (and having access to a computer) wasn't something anyone I knew growing up had easy access to. An hour at a time at the library and maybe at lunch time. So tell me, in my largely AA, poor urban neighborhood, would I even have began?

I think that is a conversation we should be having.

Women who come from families or communities where sorority membership is common are privy to the unsaid rules, social norms, and expectations that are key parts of sorority recruitment.
http://afa1976.org/Portals/0/documents/Oracle/Park%20Fall2012.pdf

In my earlier anecdote, the young lady attended a large predominately white high school where discussion among UofA-bound girls concerning recruitment would be common. While she had no family connections or privileged background, she likely had many friends who were at least somewhat knowledgeable about recruitment. The PNM of interest last fall attended a small predominately white private school in Tuscaloosa (97% white), and her grandfather is a prominent UofA University Trustee. She would not be representative of a typical PNM - or of a typical AA PNM.

This is not an easy issue to address in a system with – in almost every way imaginable - a turbo-tacular recruitment. I’m interested in hearing what others think. How has this been addressed elsewhere?

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Jhawkie

I'm sorry, but I highly doubt she is going to be welcomed with open arms anywhere below the Mason-Dixon line after this.

Who has two thumbs, lives below the Mason-Dixon line, and would welcome anyone fighting against racism? Me.

We're not all Klan members down here, you know.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It is important to remember generalizations are not intended to (and do not) apply 100%.

There are some women from predominantly African American communities** who have access to these resources just as there are first generation white college students who do not have access or have minimal access.


**especially if a family member was a trustee. There are predominantly African American communities that are not struggling and dilapidated. Therefore resources are more accessible because forms of capital potentially buffer some of the effects of racial exclusion and discrimination. Those resources can be used to access predominantly Black institutions and organizations and/or predominantly white institutions and organizations. It is also possible that someone from a struggling community has a mentor/school counselor/teacher who has assisted with college and GLO interests. The reduced likelihood of these things should not be confused with the impossibility of these things.

/carry on....

I'm not trying to make any distinction about class, resources, etc. between AA and non-AA communities, because obviously these vary from area to area. However, if many of the adult women in your community were not welcome in NPC groups because of their skin color, it's going to be harder to get recs, that's all.

[Jhawkie]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

Who has two thumbs, lives below the Mason-Dixon line, and would welcome anyone fighting against racism? Me.

We're not all Klan members down here, you know.

Well, then you should probably call her for her resume.

The idea that someone would out their chapter for racist/prejudice membership selection tactics (whether it is true or not)... just to promote their own self, is outrageous. Speaking up, going against the grain and taking a risk has not exactly been an encouraged behavior at Alabama. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about this in 2014, this would have been addressed 20 years ago. If you think this won't follow this young woman in her community, I have some swampland to sell you.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Yes. All of this.

Thank ye!

Originally Posted by 33girl

But all of that also applies to first generation college students and students whose parents are unfamiliar with a super competitive rush like Alabama's. You can't tell me that the black woman whose grandfather was a trustee was clueless regarding recommendations and/or unable to secure them for every group.

I agree that first generation college students - regardless of race or socio-economic background - face many of the same challenges. I am perfectly fine with classically under-represented groups of all kinds having access to the resources I described.

Many (most?) colleges have specific programming to support first-generation college students as well as minority groups, as well as many other affinity groups that they especially want to attract and retain (honors students, legacies, athletes, etc.)

And I didn't mean to imply that the young woman who's grandfather was a trustee would necessarily be in need of these resources - not all minority or first generation women would, either. But in aggregate, you'd have to expect that the PNMs from upper-middle class backgrounds in nearby communities would need less guidance than minority PNMs from out of state.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Jhawkie

Well, then you should probably call her for her resume.

The idea that someone would out their chapter for racist/prejudice membership selection tactics (whether it is true or not)... just to promote their own self, is outrageous. Speaking up, going against the grain and taking a risk has not exactly been an encouraged behavior at Alabama. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about this in 2014, this would have been addressed 20 years ago. If you think this won't follow this young woman in her community, I have some swampland to sell you.

Oh bless your heart. Did you see that? It was my point, going straight damn over your head.

[violetgeek]

Originally Posted by KDCat

My big girl pants are green and white. I'm extremely proud of the way National KD is taking this on.

KD has some really good professional leadership to take on this issue. Betty Mulkey is both our National Vice President of Kappa Delta and Director of Student Engagement at Northern Kentucky University. She is awesome - smart, sweet, funny, practical and tough. She is exactly the right leader in the right place for this issue. We are so lucky to have her.

I don't know if the purpose is to spark debate. I don't think that National KD cares if it causes debate, though. They know what they see as the right thing to do is and they're going to do it. If that causes debate, so be it.

KDCat -- I applaud KD for their leadership on this issue. I have known many KD's from the Alabama Chapter, including a 3 generation family and their strength in the state of Alabama is outstanding. The type of change we are all talking about needs leadership from the "top" of the Greek food chain. Change like this needs to come from the top down. If KD leads, I hope everyone else follows.

[BadCat25]

Anyone who thinks this situation only applies to Alabama is kidding themselves. Most of the Greek systems at deep south universities are whites only. The chapters fear being the first one to break the color line will be ostracized by the rest of the greek community and find recruitment of new members very difficult. They see little reward and a huge risk.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by BadCat25

Anyone who thinks this situation only applies to Alabama is kidding themselves. Most of the Greek systems at deep south universities are whites only. The chapters fear being the first one to break the color line will be ostracized by the rest of the greek community and find recruitment of new members very difficult. They see little reward and a huge risk.

You mean NPC and NIC. Please do not say "most of the Greek systems" when you are only talking about particular (predominantly white) conferences.

This is more overt in the South but, just as this isn't only an Alabama thing, it isn't only a Southern thing.

[Low D Flat]

Agreed. The problem is worse in the South, but can be found everywhere. The difference is that in, say, Ohio, you won't have groups of NPC chapters that have NEVER admitted a black student. Instead, there's a trickle, and the few who rush every year get into chapters, but (to my knowledge) most NPC chapters at big state schools in the North have not acknowledged and grappled with the history of racism that led to this state of affairs.

My totally unscientific observation is that systems at small liberal arts colleges in the north are doing a WAY better job than the big state schools of recruiting from, and serving, the entire pool of campus women. It makes sense, since at those schools everyone more or less knows each other before rush, so there's less of a temptation to make assumptions about people.

[AOII Angel]

In other parts of the country, my experience from advising in Maryland, AZ and CA is that chapters are NOT excluding women based on race. The chapters I have advised are ethnically diverse, including the one I advise currently, which is majority Latina. The chapters that are STRONG recruiting chapters will have diversity completely dependent on the mix of women who apply for formal recruitment. They may not have as many non-White candidates as the process can be more daunting. All of the African American PNMs in those recruitments are offered bids, however, so there is no issue of system wide exclusion. The weaker recruiting chapters I have worked with tend to have more diverse memberships as they pull their members from a cross section of the university and find women of all backgrounds as they participate in COB. The South is definitely behind the times, but to say ALL are the same as Bama is ridiculous. As a Southern alumna, I am embarrassed by the lack of diversity in the Southern chapters, but have been pleasantly surprised many times in the past few years when chapter pictures are displayed on FB from our smaller chapters in the South which show increasingly diverse groups which include African American women. Older, more established chapters at bigger schools seem to be the biggest hold outs, so don't generalize. There is much work to do, but all is not lost.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

As a Southern alumna, I am embarrassed by the lack of diversity in the Southern chapters, but have been pleasantly surprised many times in the past few years when chapter pictures are displayed on FB from our smaller chapters in the South which show increasingly diverse groups which include African American women.

One Christian University I can think of, St Leo's in Florida, has always had the pleasure of diversity within its NPC groups since NPC's began colonizing there thirty years ago.