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  #1  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:05 AM
Stuffy1 Stuffy1 is offline
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Help!

My daughter just went through recruitment at a small school. She was cut from all of the houses except her last choice after being recruited by several houses through rush dates, etc... She is very active on campus, has lots of friends, good grades and good recs. This was a total surprise to her and everyone who knows her. Before she went to Pref night, she told her recruitment adviser how upset she was and that she didn't think she wanted to be in the sorority that had asked her back. She was willing to give it a chance to see if there were any girls that she knew in the pledge class, but wanted to keep the COB option open and not penalize herself if she decided to go there rush as a Sophomore. Her advisers incorrectly told her (on repeated occasions, in texts and in person) that she would be able to be part of COB if she went to Bid Night but then pulled out of the sorority if she just didn't think that it would work. Fast forward to 3 days after Bid night and my daughter still hasn't made any connections with any girls (she has really tried in all possible occasions, it is just not a fit) and she has just now realized that COB isn't an option because she went to Bid Night. She is devastated and upset that she received incorrect information from her 2 advisers and that this has precluded her from participating in COB and will possibly reflect negatively on her if she rushes as a sophomore. Does she has any recourse? She has made an appointment to talk to the faculty adviser. She is devastated by all of this and has no idea what her next steps should be. I have already told her to give the house a chance but she has very good judgment and is 90% convinced this will not work out. She is also concerned about offending the house that offered her the bid and the girls in the pledge class and wants to handle things in a way that is kind and respectful and does not hurt the feelings of anyone involved. She would really like to be in a sorority and is incredibly disappointed in how this has worked out.
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:15 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Itís THREE DAYS. SEVENTY TWO HOURS. Do you realize how short a period of time that is?

She is bound for a year, so she might as well stick around and see if things get better.

If the other chapters made quota and are at total, there ISNíT a COB option. This is her option. If she does have texts telling her she could still be eligible for COB even if she went to bid night, I suppose she could go to the Greek advisor and make a big stink and get released...but that is not a guarantee that any other chapter will touch her. More than likely, it will make her THAT GIRL who complained about her bid. And no one wants to be THAT GIRL.
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  #3  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:28 AM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Stuffy, I am so sorry that your daughter was given incorrect information, but she became bound to that sorority for a year until the next formal recruitment when she signed her MRABA-the BA stands for binding agreement. In my day we called it a bid card-where you agree to accept any bid offered you.

As 33girl says, she may as well give the chapter a chance-three emotional days is not a good basis on which a judgement should be based. I worry about her truly giving the chapter and her new sisters a real, unbiased chance, when, as you say, she is 90% sure that this is not the group for her. If it is a less desired chapter, she might be the one to put it back on the road to popularity. Your daughter sounds like a real go-getter; involved on campus, good grades, lots of friends-she could be that member that initiates the turn around. If she gives it a real chance, and right before initiation she is still not seeing herself as a member, she should resign. As long as she is not initiated, she will be eligible to rush the next time formal recruitment rolls around.
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  #4  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:57 AM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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I agree with the previous posters - 3 days is just a snapshot of what this group and the women in it are like. How many events could there have been in that length of time and how long could they have lasted? Not much to base this decision on. Obviously you aren't Greek as some of what you say doesn't gel-and that's OK. However, she certainly could have attended pref and dropped out after that. But she signed the MRABA which states plainly that signing it binds you for a year. It's standard form used in all NPC recruitments and no one can release her from it.
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  #5  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:04 AM
pinksequins pinksequins is offline
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The previous posters gave good advice. Two other items in your post, OP, merit further consideration by your daughter: first, what appear to be first semester coffee dates and second, erroneous advice from two advisors. It appears that at least a couple of chapters had jnformal lunch/coffee dates in the fall with your daughter in order to get to know her before formal recruitment. A number of campuses with spring recruitment do this. Please keep in mind, both of you, that these get togethers are EXACTLY what COB is - less structured, less pressured opportunities for the women to get to know each other. If my guess that these were coffee dates is correct and she was still unable to rise to the tops of the invitation lists for the houses during formal recruitment, then her chances during COB (if it was available, which it is not), would not be better. She likely would end up at her current chapter. Second, two advisors providing incorrect information suggests that either the campus Panhellenic is in need of some serious PiChi/Rho Chi education OR that your daughter misunderstood or aspirationally reframed what was being communicated. In the throes of an emotional recruitment, it can be easy to hope against hope that a communication says something that it does not. If it is bad information across the board, then Panhellenic needs to look at better training.

She should give her chapter a try up to initiation. This includes everyday encounters outside of the chapter, like grabbing lunch between classes, initiated by her. If it does not work and shs drops PRIOR to initiation, she can say she tried her best and it just wasn't the right choice. That will accomplish her goal of kindly declining and can hold her in higher stead than dropping after only a few days.
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  #6  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:00 AM
Stuffy1 Stuffy1 is offline
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Thank you all for your advice. I agree with most of it. I actually am greek, a member of a large national sorority from a big greek school, but don't remember the in's and out's of recruitment from 30 years ago and my sorority doesn't have a chapter on this campus. And I do understand that 3 days is a short time but, in 3 days, my daughter has had 4 activities and 3 days of "group text chats" where most of the pledges participate. No one talks and 2 girls had been drinking at the latest freshman chapter activity on a Sunday afternoon. Additionally, since she has been on her small campus since August, she is very well aware of the reputation of the house and the girls. And, while we do understand the MRABA now, in looking at it on-line, I can understand how my daughter could have been confused about the COB option, or lack thereof, in the confusion/emotions after pref night and looking at the language through the lens of her advisor's (who is a great girl and has been so supportive) incorrect advice. I'm a lawyer and I look at language all day. An adult would have questioned it further, perhaps, but she thought that she had and it is not crystal clear. We have heard from reliable sources that there are several houses offering COBs but know no other details than that. I agree that there is no way to predict what could happen there given all of the circumstances and that it would be a risk in every way. She will talk to the faculty advisor today to share what happened and to discuss any possible options, none of which seem great right now. I am definitely encouraging her to keep an open mind and make a sincere effort. At the very least her conversation with the faculty adviser may highlight a weakness in the training program that could prevent another girl from going through this in the future. It is really awful that this has happened to her, she should have been able to make the best decision for her with correct and complete information. Also, I have seen the texts and her questions and the answers are very clear. It sounds like her best option is to keep trying until initiation and then just try to come up with a respectful reason to drop out if her feelings don't change. My biggest fear is that other chapters will hold it against her if she decides to go through recruitment next winter. She is very open-minded about sororities and would have been happy with any option but this one, it is not a case where she had her heart sent only on one or two houses.

Last edited by Stuffy1; 01-13-2020 at 11:16 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:10 AM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Wishing her the best.
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  #8  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:47 AM
TXDG TXDG is offline
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I know it’s hard to see your daughter go through this but you are both focused on the wrong things here. I will say the thinly veiled advice you’ve received above more clearly:

Your daughter is on a small campus.

Your daughter is on a small campus with deferred recruitment- thus, ample time for the chapters to get to know pnms before formal rush.

Your daughter got dropped by all but one chapter after multiple chapters had engaged in getting to know her this fall. It’s not like she “fell through the cracks” as one of 2200 freshmen women going through fall formal rush for 10 minutes at a huge SEC school where she had no connections. Those are the pnms who tend to fare the best in COB or going through formal as sophomores. Rush outcomes are a little more “cut & dried” on deferred campus. PNM’s who are released after rush dates don’t fall through the cracks; they were decided by the actives who rushed them to not be the best fit for that chapter.

The other chapters took a good look at your daughter and passed. We don’t know why and I know it stings to see your baby girl not have more options.

But at the end of the day she (and you) needs to know that the chapter who did offer her a bid is likely her best - and ONLY - chance at ever being in a sorority on this campus. This chapter saw something in her that sparkled and made them think she would be an amazing sister. I encourage you to encourage her to spend her time and energy getting to know her new sisters, not fighting against her Rho Chi and the Greek Life Office.

Really getting to know them - not in a group chat, but sitting together in class, studying together, eating lunch together on campus, watching tv/Netflix, practicing the art of being a friend. I can’t imagine that she has nothing in common with all 40, 60, 100+ women in the chapter.

It’s easy for her to think she’s putting herself out there and trying, but as someone who served as President of a chapter, the new members who are crying on bid night (and there are always a handful in ever chapter, even the tippy top ones) are not emotionally ready to really “try” for anywhere from a week to a few weeks after Bid Day. They have to mourn the loss of how their rush went first. The girl in my pledge class who was hysterically crying on Bid Day because she didn’t get her 1st choice was Rush Chair our senior year.
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  #9  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:16 PM
Stuffy1 Stuffy1 is offline
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TXDG, I understand your thoughts but not every situation is as cut and dried as you outline. There are many variables to every recruitment situation, including those which I am not comfortable outlining on-line. It is just not true that this is her only option of ever being in a sorority on this campus and I have several other experienced advisers who know more details who have a different opinion. That being said, I, and my daughter, understand the challenges associated with all of the choices and we appreciate everyone's thoughts. She will make the best of whatever decision she makes. Btw, she didn't, and never would, cry at the house on bid day or "make a stink" to the advisor. And, I am also a DG from Texas so not completely clueless about all of this. Further, I would really hope that if an error in information is pointed out to a faculty adviser, that adviser would respect my daughter's confidentiality and try to help her navigate through the situation and options the best she can. As well as to explain to anyone with a "need to know" what happened and how it impacted her. If the adviser does not, then we have even bigger problems. Thanks again everyone.
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:51 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Just an FYI, the Greek Adviser (called the FSA in NPC and IFC) does not have the power to negate her MRABA. That is an NPC rule. The Manual of Information ( AKA "The Green Book) is available on the NPC web site and contains all the NPC rules for recruitment and the Unanimous Agreements.
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  #11  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:41 PM
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thetalady thetalady is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuffy1 View Post
Her advisers incorrectly told her (on repeated occasions, in texts and in person) that she would be able to be part of COB if she went to Bid Night but then pulled out of the sorority if she just didn't think that it would work.
I am curious if you have actually seen with your own eyes ANYTHING in writing from her advisers that stated that your daughter could actually accept a bid and go to Bid Night, but not be bound by the MRABA that she signed?

I really would be shocked for any adviser or RX would get it that wrong. They are educated for this role. They know that a girl can go to Pref Night, but decline to sign the MRABA and participate in COB. If she signs that MRABA, she is committing to accept a bid and if one is offered, she is bound. You are absolutely SURE your daughter did not misunderstand what they told her?
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:05 PM
Stuffy1 Stuffy1 is offline
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Thank you, Titchou, I found the language I was looking for in the manual. Thetalady, I have seen 2 text messages that appear to be very clear (one is "yes or no"). There may be another explanation but, at this point, I don't see what it is. Her advisor has been lovely and very supportive of my daughter. Young women make mistakes I know how hard these girls work, and what they give up to help the Freshmen and, if she did share incorrect info., I am sure that she will feel awful, too. I just wish that I had been more involved with that particular aspect of the process so could have perhaps prevented this situation.
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  #13  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:20 PM
GoldenAnchor GoldenAnchor is offline
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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I was under the impression that most (if not all) campuses that have NPC formal recruitment have some kind of "adult" (ie not current student) that handle MRABA signing and preference ranking. Someone that is not the RC to explain what binding document the student is actually signing and what her preferences mean. This was how it's handled at my alma mater and another campus I advise at.

Also I have NEVER heard of a campus where a PNM signs her preferences/MRABA over a TEXT MESSAGE. (In reference to "yes or no"). Maybe I'm misinterpreting the context here but are you sure this wasn't some other kind of scenario where the RC was asking that question? (I'm thinking a snap that the PNM didn't understand was a snap?)
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:24 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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so help me here....do the text messages say just "attend pref" or do they say she can COB if she "attends AND signs the MRABA/bid card then changes her mind?" As I said before, she can absolutely attend pref and still COB. However, one can NEVER sign the MRABA and attend COB if she gets a bid.
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  #15  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:28 PM
Cheerio Cheerio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuffy1 View Post
My daughter just went through recruitment at a small school. She was cut from all of the houses except her last choice after being recruited by several houses through rush dates, etc... She is very active on campus, has lots of friends, good grades and good recs. This was a total surprise to her and everyone who knows her. Before she went to Pref night, she told her recruitment adviser how upset she was and that she didn't think she wanted to be in the sorority that had asked her back. She was willing to give it a chance to see if there were any girls that she knew in the pledge class, but wanted to keep the COB option open and not penalize herself if she decided to go there rush as a Sophomore. Her advisers incorrectly told her (on repeated occasions, in texts and in person) that she would be able to be part of COB if she went to Bid Night but then pulled out of the sorority if she just didn't think that it would work. Fast forward to 3 days after Bid night and my daughter still hasn't made any connections with any girls (she has really tried in all possible occasions, it is just not a fit) and she has just now realized that COB isn't an option because she went to Bid Night. She is devastated and upset that she received incorrect information from her 2 advisers and that this has precluded her from participating in COB and will possibly reflect negatively on her if she rushes as a sophomore. Does she has any recourse? She has made an appointment to talk to the faculty adviser. She is devastated by all of this and has no idea what her next steps should be. I have already told her to give the house a chance but she has very good judgment and is 90% convinced this will not work out. She is also concerned about offending the house that offered her the bid and the girls in the pledge class and wants to handle things in a way that is kind and respectful and does not hurt the feelings of anyone involved. She would really like to be in a sorority and is incredibly disappointed in how this has worked out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuffy1 View Post
Thank you all for your advice. I agree with most of it. I actually am greek, a member of a large national sorority from a big greek school, but don't remember the in's and out's of recruitment from 30 years ago and my sorority doesn't have a chapter on this campus. And I do understand that 3 days is a short time but, in 3 days, my daughter has had 4 activities and 3 days of "group text chats" where most of the pledges participate. No one talks and 2 girls had been drinking at the latest freshman chapter activity on a Sunday afternoon. Additionally, since she has been on her small campus since August, she is very well aware of the reputation of the house and the girls. And, while we do understand the MRABA now, in looking at it on-line, I can understand how my daughter could have been confused about the COB option, or lack thereof, in the confusion/emotions after pref night and looking at the language through the lens of her advisor's (who is a great girl and has been so supportive) incorrect advice. I'm a lawyer and I look at language all day. An adult would have questioned it further, perhaps, but she thought that she had and it is not crystal clear. We have heard from reliable sources that there are several houses offering COBs but know no other details than that. I agree that there is no way to predict what could happen there given all of the circumstances and that it would be a risk in every way. She will talk to the faculty advisor today to share what happened and to discuss any possible options, none of which seem great right now. I am definitely encouraging her to keep an open mind and make a sincere effort. At the very least her conversation with the faculty adviser may highlight a weakness in the training program that could prevent another girl from going through this in the future. It is really awful that this has happened to her, she should have been able to make the best decision for her with correct and complete information. Also, I have seen the texts and her questions and the answers are very clear. It sounds like her best option is to keep trying until initiation and then just try to come up with a respectful reason to drop out if her feelings don't change. My biggest fear is that other chapters will hold it against her if she decides to go through recruitment next winter. She is very open-minded about sororities and would have been happy with any option but this one, it is not a case where she had her heart sent only on one or two houses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuffy1 View Post
TXDG, I understand your thoughts but not every situation is as cut and dried as you outline. There are many variables to every recruitment situation, including those which I am not comfortable outlining on-line. It is just not true that this is her only option of ever being in a sorority on this campus and I have several other experienced advisers who know more details who have a different opinion. That being said, I, and my daughter, understand the challenges associated with all of the choices and we appreciate everyone's thoughts. She will make the best of whatever decision she makes. Btw, she didn't, and never would, cry at the house on bid day or "make a stink" to the advisor. And, I am also a DG from Texas so not completely clueless about all of this. Further, I would really hope that if an error in information is pointed out to a faculty adviser, that adviser would respect my daughter's confidentiality and try to help her navigate through the situation and options the best she can. As well as to explain to anyone with a "need to know" what happened and how it impacted her. If the adviser does not, then we have even bigger problems. Thanks again everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuffy1 View Post
Thank you, Titchou, I found the language I was looking for in the manual. Thetalady, I have seen 2 text messages that appear to be very clear (one is "yes or no"). There may be another explanation but, at this point, I don't see what it is. Her advisor has been lovely and very supportive of my daughter. Young women make mistakes I know how hard these girls work, and what they give up to help the Freshmen and, if she did share incorrect info., I am sure that she will feel awful, too. I just wish that I had been more involved with that particular aspect of the process so could have perhaps prevented this situation.
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