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  #1  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:00 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Question So, recs...

I have such mixed feelings about recs.

As I mentioned in another thread this week, they are not used to introduce Miss Upper Class Clara to some preppy sorority. If she's everything they want, they already know about her. If you believe that that's all sorority recs are good for, you probably believe that sororities have nude pillow fights every night.

They can be very useful. A solid rec from someone who knows a small-town girl can let a chapter want to know more about her and possibly lead to a bid. They can also warn us about a PNM who is likely to cause trouble in countless ways. I have only written 3 no-recs in all these years and have gotten thankful calls from 2 chapters who had not known about both girls' arrests for aggravated assault. Twice each.

They can also be worthless. Many PNMs are finding recs online now from various Greek parent groups, and a rec from a total stranger who knows nothing about a girl's character does a chapter no good, especially if a girl is "toxic". See the last paragraph.

Required by the national group or not, recs will still be utilized by sororities. There are still too many women who come into recruitment who are unknown by the chapters, like out-of-state women. It's hard, though, to trust some rec writers.

What are your thoughts?
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Last edited by carnation; 06-30-2020 at 08:13 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:25 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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I only know about my group, but we've had these - originally called sponsor forms - since we were founded. The founders, Anna, Eva, and Mary, designed it so that young women had to have a sponsor for membership in Delta Gamma. I can't see going against that.
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  #3  
Old 06-30-2020, 09:33 PM
Jen Jen is offline
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I said in the other thread, I'd love it if recs were just from someone a PNM knows personally who can attest to her activities, character, personality etc and could be from anyone they know - boss, teacher, coach, pastor - and not just a sorority alum from that sorority.



At the minimum, opening it up so that any sorority alum could write a rec for a PNM for every sorority at their school, as long as they know the PNM personally, would improve things. One alum could write a rec for a girl and send it to Panhel and the rec is sent to every chapter. It would make it easier on the PNMs, less paperwork for the chapters.
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  #4  
Old 06-30-2020, 09:35 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Here's what I wrote in the Phi Sig thread and I'm pasting it here because I don't want to rewrite it. Let's just say that a non-member is not a stakeholder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
The only thing with allowing non-members to write recs: a member is likely to be cautious about writing a rec for someone who's capable of screwing up her sorority. A non-member is not going to be affected if said girl ends up pledging a group and doing horrendous things once in.

She could say truthfully, "Oh, Patty PNM has great grades and activities!" and rave about that. Maybe she knows that the girl is an advanced drama queen or vicious gossip or flaming racist as well (or maybe she doesn't), but you know what? She won't care if the girl pledges and tears up the chapter or even loses their charter for them. I recall a chapter in Florida that almost lost their charter because 2 (only 2!) members took some NMs out and hazed them.
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  #5  
Old 06-30-2020, 09:37 PM
Titchou Titchou is offline
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Come on folks.....how many people are on LinkedIn looking for a connection? Sorority recs are the same thing. So....
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  #6  
Old 06-30-2020, 09:39 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Dangit! I was actually looking for the like button, forgetting that I'm not on Facebook.
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  #7  
Old 06-30-2020, 09:40 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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I'd like to maybe include non-sorority recs with the panhellenic application, and then leave sorority recs to the alumnae (or members, depending if that is how your sorority rolls).
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  #8  
Old 06-30-2020, 09:44 PM
APhi2KD APhi2KD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
I'd like to maybe include non-sorority recs with the panhellenic application, and then leave sorority recs to the alumnae (or members, depending if that is how your sorority rolls).
That could be a good start!
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  #9  
Old 07-01-2020, 01:05 AM
navane navane is offline
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Right, but why do PNMs have to "have" recs? We tell them they don't need to get them, but they really do need to get *two* for each chapter (but they're not required, wink wink). Thus we have young women scrambling to get in touch with their pastor's sister-in-law for a rec to XYZ at Big State U.

If an organization "needs" a rec, per their policy, shouldn't they get it themselves or come right out and SAY THAT THEY ARE REQUIRED? I never really understood the "recs are not required" party line but make sure you get two for each chapter (wink wink). That perpetuates the need for PNMs to get recs from alumnae who don't even know her.

I agree that recs are useful for passing along information on a young woman who deserves a good look or for reporting on a troublesome young woman who merits a no-rec. Absolutely. But we're not helping first time college attendees when they didn't know the secret rules of the game.
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  #10  
Old 07-01-2020, 07:21 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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The wink wink is from Panhel. They cannot say recs are required to participate in rush because rush is a Panhellenic function. They can’t make statements about individual groups’ membership selection policies. That would be like mall management saying what scents Bath and Body Works can carry.

As for the groups that do require a rec before a bid is issued, it would kill chapters at some schools if the girls had to find their own. These groups have decided on this policy and if it works for them, that is their business, not mine.

Non- sorority recs???? All I have to say to that is “2000 women registered to rush at Alabama.”
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  #11  
Old 07-01-2020, 01:37 PM
navane navane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
The wink wink is from Panhel. They cannot say recs are required to participate in rush because rush is a Panhellenic function. They can’t make statements about individual groups’ membership selection policies. That would be like mall management saying what scents Bath and Body Works can carry.
Oh, I understand that. I guess what I'm struggling to articulate is that I'm thinking the organizations should come right out and say if they, as individual organizations, need recs. For example, the Panhellenic rush booklet has a page for each chapter, listing their colors, mascot, philanthropy, and financial info. Why not have a "rec needed?" line? Why are the individual sororities keeping it a secret? The PNMs would need to know this ahead of time, of course, so they could get the recs. So, in that regard, printing in the booklet isn't a great solution; but, there has to be some way to signal to PNMs that it really is required. Perhaps the national organizations should consider being more transparent about that.


Quote:
As for the groups that do require a rec before a bid is issued, it would kill chapters at some schools if the girls had to find their own.
Exactly. Those chapters will obtain a rec one way or another if one is needed to bid the PNM.

From what I can tell, the practice of PNMs "needing" to obtain 1-2 recs per chapter has it's roots in PNMs who knew the game ahead of time (via info from Greek mothers and grandmothers, etc). Those PNMs realized that they could gain some favorable ground in the process by doing the sorority's work for them. In that way, the sororities' responsibility to obtain recs got pushed on to the PNMs .

Now, picture a freshman POC who is first in her family to attend college. She sees the organizations at the campus new students fair and thinks sororities look like fun. She didn't get the word that she was supposed to have recs because nobody told her, it's not advertised, and her family hasn't been Greek before. The more well-connected girls already knew this and got their recs lined up. The argument I see given here and elsewhere is, as long as she is a stand-out, someone in that sorority will somehow find someone to write her a rec before being bid. The again, what's the point of an alum in a back room during rush writing a rec for a PNM she's never met before?


Quote:
These groups have decided on this policy and if it works for them, that is their business, not mine.
I agree.


Quote:
Non- sorority recs???? All I have to say to that is “2000 women registered to rush at Alabama.”
I've been sick the past few days; so, I guess it's going over my head. I didn't understand your response here. Carnation mentioned that one of the reasons she supports recs is so alumnae can notify a chapter of bad apples ahead of time. I was agreeing that no-rec (bad PNM alert) is one example of how recs are helpful.
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  #12  
Old 07-01-2020, 02:38 PM
FSUZeta FSUZeta is offline
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Imagine all 2000 Bama PNMs asking former teachers, neighborhood women, former baby sitters, Sunday school teachers, Brownie leaders, etc. for a rec, if sororities were to allow non-member recs. Instead of the occasional PNM with more than the requested number of recs, chapters would probably get numerous non-member recs for many, many girls.

There is no way that a sorority is going to sit down with the list of 2000 PNMs and send out SOSs for recs before rush begins. And as we know, it is an easy way to cut a girl in the early days of rush, especially for the chapter that has high return rates, so is looking for reasons to cut. Until the powers that be decide that recommendations are no longer necessary, or that they are not fair to the first gen PNM, it behooves PNMs to do their diligence, find out about the campus Panhellenic culture, and follow the protocol.
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  #13  
Old 07-01-2020, 04:55 PM
navane navane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUZeta View Post
Imagine all 2000 Bama PNMs asking former teachers, neighborhood women, former baby sitters, Sunday school teachers, Brownie leaders, etc. for a rec, if sororities were to allow non-member recs. Instead of the occasional PNM with more than the requested number of recs, chapters would probably get numerous non-member recs for many, many girls.
Oh wait...maybe there is a misunderstanding. When I say "no-rec" that means a sorority alumna who is writing a negative recommendation to the chapter due to the PNM being a risk management issue. I was not talking about non-Greek personal recommendation letters from non-affiliated teachers, coaches, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUZeta View Post
Until the powers that be decide that recommendations are no longer necessary, or that they are not fair to the first gen PNM, it behooves PNMs to do their diligence, find out about the campus Panhellenic culture, and follow the protocol.
Fair enough.
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  #14  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:10 PM
Sen's Revenge Sen's Revenge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUZeta View Post
Imagine all 2000 Bama PNMs asking former teachers, neighborhood women, former baby sitters, Sunday school teachers, Brownie leaders, etc. for a rec, if sororities were to allow non-member recs. .
It's as though we haven't been talking about NPHC practices on GC for the past 20 years...

Do folks not know that this is exactly what happens at large HBCUs when the Deltas, AKAs, Alphas, Kappas, whoever, have a line?

At my old job, which was a community service organization, one of the site directors was asked five different times to write letters of recommendation for women wanting to be Deltas at Howard.

It's just the nature of the beast.
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  #15  
Old 07-01-2020, 06:29 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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I bet that Howard didn't have 2000 women wanting to be Deltas!
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