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  #31  
Old 11-11-2019, 04:05 AM
SigmaCat SigmaCat is offline
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In any NPC sorority, aside from stuff like grades or other, similar basic, noncontroversial requirements for membership, there should be no "Clipboard Karen from International" standing at the door removing names from the list before anybody's met the rushees. That preclusive, "shadow selection" practice was just as repugnant to the Michigan rush chair as the "hot girl" membership selection criterion itself.

I get that many chapters abuse personal appearance standards as a way to quietly block people with disabilities, people of color, non-Christians, and people of size, but for an international organization to be leading that charge? Yikes.
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  #32  
Old 11-11-2019, 07:10 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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UrsaMajor: I’d like to think what you say is true and the scorn of peers would lead to a change, but when grown professional women appear to be completely espousing the adolescent philosophy “you hate us cause you ain’t us!” I’m not optimistic.
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  #33  
Old 11-11-2019, 11:41 AM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge View Post
So question.... (and you know me, so you know I am coming from a place of understanding and not disrespect)

Why should looks figure into it at all?

For example, what if there is a category that says whether or not a PNM has a professional or put-together hair style.

Then a black or biracial girl comes in with dreadlocks.

What happens when Karen with the clipboard decides to take points off because she has never seen a black hairstyle?

Or a Muslim woman who covers?

I guess what I am saying as an outsider to the process is that what Alpha Phi is alleged to be doing doesn't seem that much different from what the system does as a whole. It's just that one way is codified and organized and the other way is more casual.
Clearly not every chapter of every NPC group has 6' tall, model-skinny, blonde-hair-down-to-there women. The vast majority have members that are different shapes, sizes, skin color, etc.

I attended my convention last year. Do we have some chapters that may put more of an emphasis on looks? Sure. But that's not a directive from our organization's leadership. And one of those chapters you could argue were the super pretty ones also took home one of our most highly-regarded awards that a chapter can receive, so...

To me, if that's how a chapter wants to build their membership, they can have at it. But I'd argue that many "picture perfect" chapters are not sacrificing the grades, extra-curriculars, volunteer experience, personality, etc. just so they can have some pretty faces in the crowd. Because if you have a chapter filled with grade risks who never volunteer and skirt all of their responsibilities, that chapter won't last very long.

Ultimately, it all boils down to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
If, as described in the Beta Delta letter, you have a woman come through who is beloved by everyone in the chapter who knows her, has extracurricular involvement and good grades - and your national is telling you to kick her to the curb because her looks are inadequate- that’s what everyone is saying is completely wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SigmaCat View Post
I get that many chapters abuse personal appearance standards as a way to quietly block people with disabilities, people of color, non-Christians, and people of size, but for an international organization to be leading that charge? Yikes.
To think that an international organization that is supposed to be empowering women is instead teaching its young collegiate members to reduce other women down to nothing but their looks is disgusting.

However, I'm not sure that much can be done about it by us "outsiders".

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
The wisest tack for NPC to take would be to definitively show that A Phi really is cheating or otherwise disobeying rules at rush (an NPC function) rather than criticize their methods of membership selection (an individual org function) and discipline them in some way because of the former.

Interfering with an individual organization’s MS policies (no matter how repugnant) is a bell that can’t be un-rung.
And I'm sure NPC doesn't want to touch this with a ten foot pole for the very reason you've laid out here. And does it truly benefit them to try and track down rush infractions? Will that ultimately lead to a change in membership selection? Probably not.

To me, the only thing that will make any significant change is if there is a type of revolt by the Alpha Phi membership at large.
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Last edited by ASTalumna06; 11-11-2019 at 12:34 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:08 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Lying about the amount of active members so you can take more people in rush (essentially, cooking the books) is quite a bit more than an infraction, especially if there’s a pattern of it happening at multiple schools.
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  #35  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:18 PM
ASTalumna06 ASTalumna06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Lying about the amount of active members so you can take more people in rush (essentially, cooking the books) is quite a bit more than an infraction, especially if there’s a pattern of it happening at multiple schools.
Regardless of what we call it, NPC could certainly go after them for this. However, I don't think that's ultimately going to affect their MS criteria or what they're teaching their members about picking what they see as being the prettiest women to be sisters.
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  #36  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:44 PM
Sororitysock Sororitysock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge View Post
So question.... (and you know me, so you know I am coming from a place of understanding and not disrespect)

Why should looks figure into it at all?

For example, what if there is a category that says whether or not a PNM has a professional or put-together hair style.

Then a black or biracial girl comes in with dreadlocks.

What happens when Karen with the clipboard decides to take points off because she has never seen a black hairstyle?

Or a Muslim woman who covers?

I guess what I am saying as an outsider to the process is that what Alpha Phi is alleged to be doing doesn't seem that much different from what the system does as a whole. It's just that one way is codified and organized and the other way is more casual.
I'm going to say it because that's how I roll and it's being forever tiptoed around within this debate in the NPC. Alpha Phi is using "attractive" as a criteria in the very narrowest of ways: attractive/hot white women. Their policy effectively disqualifies anyone who does not fit it, including women of color, women who wear religious garments, physically disabled women etc. Look at photos of these chapters and there is an alarming lack of any diversity, unless you're talking hair color. Dark skin isn't hot. Ethnic features aren't hot. Natural hair isn't hot. Hijabs aren't hot. Wheelchairs aren't hot.
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  #37  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:47 PM
Sororitysock Sororitysock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Lying about the amount of active members so you can take more people in rush (essentially, cooking the books) is quite a bit more than an infraction, especially if there’s a pattern of it happening at multiple schools.
Yes, if true, and from what I have seen it likely is, this is the hill they will die on.
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  #38  
Old 11-11-2019, 03:56 PM
Sen's Revenge Sen's Revenge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sororitysock View Post
I'm going to say it because that's how I roll and it's being forever tiptoed around within this debate in the NPC. Alpha Phi is using "attractive" as a criteria in the very narrowest of ways: attractive/hot white women. Their policy effectively disqualifies anyone who does not fit it, including women of color, women who wear religious garments, physically disabled women etc. Look at photos of these chapters and there is an alarming lack of any diversity, unless you're talking hair color. Dark skin isn't hot. Ethnic features aren't hot. Natural hair isn't hot. Hijabs aren't hot. Wheelchairs aren't hot.
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  #39  
Old 11-11-2019, 04:03 PM
VioletsAreBlue VioletsAreBlue is offline
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I'm confused. They say there is a smoking gun, they've seen a presentation that was given a year and a half ago, with "case studies." So why just post a summary?
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  #40  
Old 11-11-2019, 04:08 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sororitysock View Post
I'm going to say it because that's how I roll and it's being forever tiptoed around within this debate in the NPC. Alpha Phi is using "attractive" as a criteria in the very narrowest of ways: attractive/hot white women. Their policy effectively disqualifies anyone who does not fit it, including women of color, women who wear religious garments, physically disabled women etc. Look at photos of these chapters and there is an alarming lack of any diversity, unless you're talking hair color. Dark skin isn't hot. Ethnic features aren't hot. Natural hair isn't hot. Hijabs aren't hot. Wheelchairs aren't hot.
I even remember one of the points of attractiveness being “silky” hair. I’m white as liquid paper but that lets my ass out.
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  #41  
Old 11-11-2019, 05:16 PM
wsucalsigmakapp wsucalsigmakapp is offline
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Every chapter out there wants beautiful women, the problem I see is that most of our chapters also want women who are also focused on academic and philanthropic opportunities , and want women who have the same core values that our organizations represent. At this point, I feel feel like Alpha Phi isn't meeting the goals of the NPC, as harsh as this sounds, I have to wonder if the NPC should consider or threaten the idea of being a 25 member organization. I hate seeing all this, my aunt is an Alpha Phi, and she is distraught over the direction that the leadership is taking her organization. =(

Last edited by wsucalsigmakapp; 11-11-2019 at 05:24 PM.
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  #42  
Old 11-11-2019, 05:48 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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The problem is so much of our membership selection is based on intangibles. If they were, across multiple schools, violating a rule that is tangible and quantifiable, NPC could act with no problem. Like if chapters across the country were initiating women who weren’t matriculated students.
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  #43  
Old 11-11-2019, 06:42 PM
Sororitysock Sororitysock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VioletsAreBlue View Post
I'm confused. They say there is a smoking gun, they've seen a presentation that was given a year and a half ago, with "case studies." So why just post a summary?
Alpha Phi has repeatedly denied this is happening, using expulsion and threats of losing volunteer positions against those who internally disagree. They denied the Michigan expose was the truth. With that in mind, an internal Alpha Phi presentation outlining this process is most certainly a smoking gun. 100% proof that women are not making this up.
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  #44  
Old 11-11-2019, 07:06 PM
FormerlyKnownAs FormerlyKnownAs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sororitysock View Post
Alpha Phi has repeatedly denied this is happening, using expulsion and threats of losing volunteer positions against those who internally disagree. They denied the Michigan expose was the truth. With that in mind, an internal Alpha Phi presentation outlining this process is most certainly a smoking gun. 100% proof that women are not making this up.

Well, when the IO President resigns to accept a huge payday as their Foundation's ED...shady behavior begins from the top.

The fact that both discussions on Greekchat and Reddit were mysteriously removed leads many to believe that Alpha Phi is hiding something.
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  #45  
Old 11-11-2019, 07:37 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I just wanted to clarify that the removal of the thread on here was an honest mistake and not compelled by anyone or any group.
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