Everyone's a little bit racist...

[naraht]

I'm interested in people's opinion on the level of racism shown by the following situations...

1) "I feel that skin tone must be taken into account in determining how clothes look. For example: Light Blues look best on Fair skinned Caucasians, Purplish Grays look best on African Americans and Emeralds look best on East Asians".
1a)"... And I take that into account when hiring Models for my company's fashion shoots"

...Completely different scenario.
2) Two cashiers at the local US Grocery Store are talking to each other in Spanish, and you are in one of their lines. After your groceries are finished, you say "Gracias" instead of "Thank You".

[DrPhil]

No, everyone is not "a little bit racist". There is no such thing as "a little bit racist".

Everyone has prejudices, biases, and varying levels of ignorance.

Racism is about power at the individual and, most often, structural levels. Racism is the ability to negatively impact, discriminate, impose, and/or force.

Racism often includes but does not require prejudice. Prejudice often results in but does not inevitably lead to racism.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, everyone is not "a little bit racist". There is no such thing as "a little bit racist".

I figured he was quoting this.

[DrPhil]

LOL. Yes, thanks. Unfortunately that song is often quoted and based on a common misconception.

There are people who believe there are levels of racism and there are people who use racism interchangeable with prejudice.

Interesting article: http://www.theguardian.com/science/b...acism-study-uk

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by naraht

I'm interested in people's opinion on the level of racism shown by the following situations...

1) "I feel that skin tone must be taken into account in determining how clothes look. For example: Light Blues look best on Fair skinned Caucasians, Purplish Grays look best on African Americans and Emeralds look best on East Asians".
1a)"... And I take that into account when hiring Models for my company's fashion shoots"

Intent vs. impact...does this mean that people of color are adequately represented? If so, it's not particularly racist that the black people are wearing one color and the white people another. If it's instead used to justify hiring fewer people of color, then it's racist.

[DubaiSis]

Color, and the way light reflects off it is a real thing. One good example is on TV. On shows that are hosted by a white person, the fill lights are amber. When it's hosted by a black person, it's lavender. That's not racist; it's science. Otherwise the host would look either too dark or washed out.

Now, whether we actually look better in certain colors based on our skin tones or if we just like ourselves in certain colors, I'm not so sure. But it brings to mind a job I had a long time ago hiring voice over talent. I always preferred the male voice, which also goes back to science. The human ear hears lower pitches easier than higher pitches. Now does that mean you should only ever use men for voice overs? No, but I always thought they sounded better. And the same thing would probably be true for an art director choosing models. First, he could prefer a certain look and secondly, he could be drawn to certain color people with certain color clothing. Now if the art director never seemed to have looks that would look better (in his opinion) on people of color, then there might be an issue, but on the issue of skin tone vs clothing color, I don't think you can claim racism.

I think if 2 people are speaking in Spanish and you comment in Spanish that is COURTESY. If you see a brown person and you say gracias with no other reason to think that person speaks Spanish, then it might be racist.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I think if 2 people are speaking in Spanish and you comment in Spanish that is COURTESY.

LOL. So between the exchange between the 2 cashiers and you finishing, there is no other interaction? Are you and the cashier standing in silence? I always get at least a "Hi. How are you? Did you find everything OK?" or SOMETHING. I don't think I've ever been in a service situation where the employee wasn't at least familiar with the common language of the area. If the person can say "Hi, how are you" I'm sure they'll understand "thank you"

I feel like this would be like someone seeing me in line and saying "Yo yo yo, you be findin errythang alright homie" or something thinking I'd feel more at home with that. No need for all the extra. A simple "Hi there" is more than enough.

(this was not a slam at you DubaiSis )

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

LOL. So between the exchange between the 2 cashiers and you finishing, there is no other interaction? Are you and the cashier standing in silence? I always get at least a "Hi. How are you? Did you find everything OK?" or SOMETHING. I don't think I've ever been in a service situation where the employee wasn't at least familiar with the common language of the area. If the person can say "Hi, how are you" I'm sure they'll understand "thank you"

I feel like this would be like someone seeing me in line and saying "Yo yo yo, you be findin errythang alright homie" or something thinking I'd feel more at home with that. No need for all the extra. A simple "Hi there" is more than enough.

(this was not a slam at you DubaiSis )

I actually had something similar happen to me many years ago. I used to work group sales in a hotel. I was giving a tour of the hotel to a prospective group that was of Hispanic origin. Can't remember the name of the group now 10 years later...? Anyway, we were touring (in English) and one person broke off to use the restroom. She came out, and one of her colleagues asked her (in Spanish) in front of me if the bathrooms were clean. She replies (in Spanish) yes. Me (my blonde hair, blue eyed self) turns around and says "Glad to hear our bathrooms are clean!" And they all giggled. Point being, they totally thought they were having a sidebar conversation that I couldn't possibly understand!

Was it racist of me to respond? Serious question. God, I hope not! I was just responding to a conversation that was being had in my midst in a language I understood and speak.

Discuss. I'm now curious...

[knight_shadow]

I personally don't think either of those situations (grocery store or tour) are racist.

I generally feel the need to give a side-eye for situations like this (which has happened to me on more than one occasion): I am sitting in a public place and notice someone going around trying to solicit. The white folks get a "Hey there. Just wanted to stop by to see if I could interest you in xyz product" while speaking to me warrants a "What up, bro. Check this out...word, word."

Why couldn't I get the "regular" spiel? Why would you assume that I prefer "street talk"? That's why I was asking (in my original reply) if there was any other interaction -- unless the cashier has ZERO grasp of the English language (which I've never seen in my neck of the woods), they know what "thank you" is. No need for all the extra.

I don't think it's racist but it is certainly a microaggression.

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by naraht

I'm interested in people's opinion on the level of racism shown by the following situations...

1) "I feel that skin tone must be taken into account in determining how clothes look. For example: Light Blues look best on Fair skinned Caucasians, Purplish Grays look best on African Americans and Emeralds look best on East Asians".
1a)"... And I take that into account when hiring Models for my company's fashion shoots"

...Completely different scenario.
2) Two cashiers at the local US Grocery Store are talking to each other in Spanish, and you are in one of their lines. After your groceries are finished, you say "Gracias" instead of "Thank You".

1. It's not levels. It's just racist. It gives people excuses to exclude people from opportunities. And incorrect as well. The assumption that all of any one racial group even has the same skintone is just not well informed.

2. It's about intent. If someone is saying "Gracias" because they are just being an a-hole, thats a problem.
Sometimes, it is being polite. Sometimes, it is just speaking Spanish to someone who speaks Spanish.
My best friend lives/teaches in heavy Spanish-speaking areas, and has a lot of Latino students. She tries to implement things out of respect of the ethnicities/cultures in the classroom and neighborhood. THEN...she had my handsome Godson who is Black and Puerto Rican (and has family who speak limited English). She frequently uses Spanish (and has been diligently trying to learn) so that he will know both languages.
If people are walking up to every "Latino looking" person speaking Spanish then that's a problem. (This happens to me more times than I can count. People assume I'm every race/ethnic group mixed together, and I'm looking at them like...I'm Black...and I only speak English and a little American Sign Language.)

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Intent vs. impact...does this mean that people of color are adequately represented? If so, it's not particularly racist that the black people are wearing one color and the white people another. If it's instead used to justify hiring fewer people of color, then it's racist.

This.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I personally don't think either of those situations (grocery store or tour) are racist.

I generally feel the need to give a side-eye for situations like this (which has happened to me on more than one occasion): I am sitting in a public place and notice someone going around trying to solicit. The white folks get a "Hey there. Just wanted to stop by to see if I could interest you in xyz product" while speaking to me warrants a "What up, bro. Check this out...word, word."

Why couldn't I get the "regular" spiel? Why would you assume that I prefer "street talk"? That's why I was asking (in my original reply) if there was any other interaction -- unless the cashier has ZERO grasp of the English language (which I've never seen in my neck of the woods), they know what "thank you" is. No need for all the extra.

I don't think it's racist but it is certainly a microaggression.

Interesting example. And now that you mention it, I've probably observed it. Was the solicitor white? (Ugh, if so.) Microagression is a good word. I'm going to start using that.

Originally Posted by PersistentDST

1. It's not levels. It's just racist. It gives people excuses to exclude people from opportunities. And incorrect as well. The assumption that all of any one racial group even has the same skintone is just not well informed.

2. It's about intent. If someone is saying "Gracias" because they are just being an a-hole, thats a problem.
Sometimes, it is being polite. Sometimes, it is just speaking Spanish to someone who speaks Spanish.
My best friend lives/teaches in heavy Spanish-speaking areas, and has a lot of Latino students. She tries to implement things out of respect of the ethnicities/cultures in the classroom and neighborhood. THEN...she had my handsome Godson who is Black and Puerto Rican (and has family who speak limited English). She frequently uses Spanish (and has been diligently trying to learn) so that he will know both languages.
If people are walking up to every "Latino looking" person speaking Spanish then that's a problem. (This happens to me more times than I can count. People assume I'm every race/ethnic group mixed together, and I'm looking at them like...I'm Black...and I only speak English and a little American Sign Language.)

To the part I put in bold: If I'm honest with myself, I probably jumped in to reply to my folks speaking Spanish just to be a little a-holey. I was mildly annoyed that they were trying to have a conversation in front of me, but excluding me, and yet the cleanliness of our bathroom was important to the tour and conversation we were having. (i.e.: they wouldn't pick my location if we had nasty bathrooms). Does that make sense?

[DubaiSis]

Assuming that someone not your same skin color can't possibly understand you speaking your native tongue might be racist. Acknowledging that you're not stupid is not.

And I'm not a chatter in those kinds of situations, but I do try to say thank you. It's part of my Club Med training - we were always to try to say hello, good morning, good evening, good bye, that kind of stuff in the people's native tongue. At one point I could say hello in maybe 15 languages. And jump, but that's another story. Besides, jump in more languages than logic would dictate is Hopa!

Changing subject a bit, after all the "I am not a costume" discussions I have become more sensitive to that. And then I was invited to a 30th birthday party where she wants everyone in Mariachi outfits. She's Mexican-American from El Paso. And she clearly sees it as a dress up/costume kind of a gig. Is this one of those "only if it's your own people" things? And by the way, hell to the no am I dressing up as a mariachi. MAYBE I'll wear the hat. And maybe a hot dress to make up for the fact that I am wearing no brocade anywhere.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Assuming that someone not your same skin color can't possibly understand you speaking your native tongue might be racist. Acknowledging that you're not stupid is not.

This makes me feel better. Thanks! I was having an identity crisis 10 years after the fact because of the OP!

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Changing subject a bit, after all the "I am not a costume" discussions I have become more sensitive to that. And then I was invited to a 30th birthday party where she wants everyone in Mariachi outfits. She's Mexican-American from El Paso. And she clearly sees it as a dress up/costume kind of a gig. Is this one of those "only if it's your own people" things? And by the way, hell to the no am I dressing up as a mariachi. MAYBE I'll wear the hat. And maybe a hot dress to make up for the fact that I am wearing no brocade anywhere.

This cracks me up...I'm not sure what I would do!!

[33girl]

First off, LMAO at #1 because many moons ago, my mom and I were watching the tonight show and Johnny Gill (I think, if not him someone New Jack Swing-y) and apropos of nothing she says "don't black men look good in purple!" So apparently there is a precedent. Yes, that is potentially racist, but also just plain stupid as not all people of a certain race are the same shade and/or have the same undertones.

#2, if two cashiers are conversing with each other when they're supposed to be waiting on me and haven't addressed me directly, I wouldn't say thank you or gracias. I'd say very sarcastically "sorry to interrupt your social hour."