Lowering Campus Total!

[AngelPhiSig]

How would we go about lowering campus total? There are a few chapters on campus that have 60 (current total) most of us fall at about 40 and theres one chapter that is down into the teens, maybe even single digits...

I would love to see all chapters on our campus at a good number, and *hopefully* total. BUT there is NOT enough interest in greek life to have all sororities at 60...

How would we go about convincing Panhel (and the sororities at 60) to lower total to 50, 45 or even 40?

Sheila- I know you have tried this before! Help!

If we can get all orgs at total, we may be able to convince Panhel and Greek Life to expand... and we could get some of our old orgs back!

*cough*ASA *cough*

[DWAlphaGam]

I was actually wondering this myself, because this year was the second year in a row that all six sororities at my school had to COB. Our total is currently 75 and 4 of the houses usually hover around there while 2 others are usually anywhere from 15-35. One of my sisters is Panhellenic secretary/treasurer this year, and when I asked her about it, she said that they can't lower total because the only reason quota was so low was that many women (54 out of 167!) had dropped out of recruitment. If everyone had stayed in recruitment and gotten bids, quota would have been higher and the 4 bigger houses would have hit total without a problem. So basically, if there was lack of interest in formal recruitment to begin with, they would have considered lowering total, but since the interest was there and women dropped or didn't get matched, there's nothing they can do about it. That's my unofficial second-hand information about how changing total works; hopefully someone with more expertise in NPC rules can come and explain it for real.

[33girl]

Ali, is Karen (your alum) still the Panhel advisor? She might be more amenable to it than our last Panhel advisor, since she's been there...

I think one of the first steps would be to go back in history and show the decline in rush numbers - then get all the groups who are under to vote in a block. Last time we tried this TPA actually abstained, why I have no clue - it would have helped them the most. Oh, and make sure that everyone knows this is a "going forward" thing - when we tried before, one of the larger groups had a cow and was like "but we just gave all these girls bids!!" Hello, it's called grandfather clause, Einstein.

I think total was raised to 60 in like 1991 - it definitely needs reevaluated, considering quota back then was 15-18.

Let me know what happens, I might be able to dig up some old friends of mine over ALF...

[SnowLady]

What great Panhellenic spirit! Could you come to my campus for a talk, too?!

33girl is so right about the voting bloc. You need all of those chapter that are below total to agree to this and understand it's importance. Many chapter charters are pulled because their numbers are below chapter total. And if this keeps happening, Greek Life as we know it will cease to exist. You've got to take care of each other. (you're only as strong as your weakest link...)

Another idea with increase numbers is pairing up the largest group with the smallest group and have them help rush for the smallest group (or groups). They don't have to participate in membership selection or anything - but their reputation on campus will help attrack women to recruitment functions for the smaller groups and they would be selling the Greek Experience. Again, focusing on the weakest link senario.

GOOD LUCK!

[KappaKittyCat]

Just a warning for you... NPC might say no.

We tried it last year. Total was at 65 and was lowered to 50 in 2000 and we tried to lower it to 40. Nobody's been over 45 in years. Our chapter needs it so that a certain other chapters can't play the Suicide/COB dirty rush game. Shockingly enough, another chapter that's at 42 wanted it lowered because they were sick of COBing every term. They actually didn't want to get new members. The chapter that opposed it called their NPC delegate and raised a stink. NPC contacted our Greek advisor and forbade lowering campus total. They said that wasn't the answer.

Well, my question was, what is?

Fortunately we made our case to our NPC delegate at our Convention and she's arranging for NPC to engage in some nation-building this fall; they're sending us a consulting team. I hope that that'll help us get participation up so that we don't need to lower total.

So my advice to you is to get your NPC delegate on your side before you really start fighting to change total. Have the other chapters in your "voting block" do the same. That'll assure you the best chance of success.

[33girl]

KKC - I thought that we could do this locally. Isn't getting NPC nationally involved the same as them telling how to do elections, etc?

We have 7, maybe 2 are at total and it's been that way for a LONG TIME. I know our old panhel rep said to us "well that's too many sororities for that size campus." Well, if we were all friggin clairvoyant, we wouldn't have voted the last 2 groups in when we were all pulling huge pledge classes. We would have said "no, you can't come in because 10 years from now numbers will be in the toilet!" We really don't want 3 sororities at 100 members each, either. Especially with houses that hold an average of 15.

[KappaKittyCat]

I'm just telling you what happened to us. I think that NPC didn't like our lowering total twice in three years. I really don't know what the policy is regarding NPC's involvement in campus Panhellenic operations. I'm not the Panhel expert; I was just our delegate for a term.

Thanks.
-KKC

[33girl]

I can understand that. Yeah, if we put it back down to 50 or 45 I think that would be sufficient for a while, unless enrollment skyrocketed/plummeted. The prob is it's something that has needed to be fixed for a while and we had a Panhel advisor who was dumber than a box of mice. Now that she's gone, hopefully some positive changes can be made. Thanks for your input.

[Opie25]

It sounds like there should definately AT LEAST be a discussion about changing the number for Total on your campus. As a greek advisor I double checked the NPC Green-book (AKA Manual of Information) regarding total and will type that below here.

This is the "official" blurb concerning total changing procedures...if you go to your greek advisors office they should have a copy of the "greenbook", and I'm sure that someone in the chapter (president, vp, advisor) should have one also. This information is located on page 84 under Membership Recruitment Mechanics,

How to Set Total

"Total chapter size is determined by the Colelge Panhellenic after studying the current size fo the fraternity chapters, the availability of potential members, expected growth in the college enrollment and the most desirable chapter size for the campus.

Once set, total chater size should remain constant for several years. Limiting Total chapter size too drastically can harm fraternity growth.

Total figures should be realistic to result in the majority of chatpers reaching total chapter size. If all chapters are about the same size, a reasonable Total may be deteremined by dividing the total number of new members an dinitiated members by the number of chapters.

REEVALUATION OF THE TOTATL CHAPTER SIZE MAY BE DEISRABLE WHEN THE MAJORITY OF CHAPTERS REACH AND/OR EXCEED TOTAL, OW WHEN NO CHAPTER HAS REACHED THE ESTABLISHED TOTAL CHAPTER SIZE IN SEVERAL YEARS.

Resolved, that college Panhellenci councils prior to evaluation and/or chaning total chapter size consult with the NPC Area Advisor who shall notify NPC delegates with chapters on the cmapus of this evaluation."

Okay, so that's the offical Green book statment, personally I think that the NPC and the area advisor should stay out of the decision making end of this....you and your sisters, the greek community, and hopefully the greek advisor are on your campus everyday, know how it works, notice trends, and should be able to make reasonable decisions based upon that experience.

Should Headquarters and NPC know about the discussion and the possibility? Yes.

Should they (HQ's and NPC) control the decion? ABSOLUTELY NOT. You all are on the front lines and know better than anyone where you need to be...I think this (and excuse me as I go on a rant here) is just another example of NPC trying to exert their authority on a college campus and decide what is best on your campus...and I personally believe that is wrong!

I think NPC does some things well, and at the same time (this is the slightly bitter Greek advisor now) try to exert too much power and authority on college campuses, when they shouldn't.

A lot of the rules, policies, procedures, etc. are not what I would presonally call up-to-date or cutting edge....in a lot of various aspects their rules, feelings, and actions are antiquated and in need for a change!!!!!

Okay..I will get off my soap box now....that's something for a whole other thread!

Good luck, and if there is anything I can do please let me know.

Thanks for listening!

[squirrely girl]

my last school finally got 'round to dropping total. prolly cause only like 3 out of 14 houses were meeting it. ehhhhh. other than that, there was some moaning and groaning but in the end everybody came around. we also set the idea that if you were reaching total you could COB or do informal. for some reason in the past, it wasn't a rule.

marissa

[jess_pom]

I am actually on the Panhel exec board at Clarion, and we have talked about lowering total, but we thought that we could rise the the challenge and become better chapters because of it. Enrollment at Clarion is actually up... so why aren't girls rushing? That is the question that needs to be solved. We tried our damndest to get the positive message about greeks out there... we bribed PNM's with cups to come to Meet the Sororities (about 100 ladies came) and still, quota was 5 for this semester. So, its not that we haven't thought about it, but we just aren't ready to admit defeat.

[Opie25]

I don't know if lowering total is necessarily admitting defeat...I would hate to say that, but I see your point.

However, at the same time if no one is reaching Total consistantly that is a very dangerous situation especially for the smallest chapter.

Unfortuantely, some headquarters after seeing their chapters consistantly not hitting total see this as a warning sign, and eventually may close that chapter.

The tag line is always, "they weren't competitive enough at the total number they were at, so they deicided (it's always the chapter making the decision...according to the HQ's) that it was better to relinquish their charter."

I saw it happen twice once as an undergrad, and then as a graduate student. It is not a fun thing to go through at all, and I would hate for that to happen anywhere!

I think maybe a multi-directional approach would be good here. The campus should definately evaluate their recruitment and see if changes need to be made, they should also survey those women who chose to join, and those who didn't to get the reasons for both, and if necessary lower total for a year or two to get everyone back to a more even playing field....they could always re-evaluate and then raise totaly if necessary.

Just my thoughts...thanks for listening.

[33girl]

thanks opie, are you sure you haven't come to visit Clarion undercover? You are on the $$$ about HQ's just seeing that you don't hit total, for the most part they don't bother analyzing the history or the figures.

Jess, I don't think it would be admitting defeat. When you don't reach total over and over, no matter how unrealistic you know it is, it gets you depressed & desperate and that gets you in a downward spiral and harder to rush. God knows I have been there. And I think that turns some rushees off. I think if we just quit letting freshmen have cars it would solve our problem (but that of course is another thread! ).

[FuzzieAlum]

Opie, what if most of the chapters are hitting total, but only by extensive COBing - that is, no one hits total by doing only formal rush? Would that be considered grounds for lowering total? Thanks!

[doubleblue&gold]

An answer for the larger groups not wanting to decrease total-----remind them that they can still recruit and extend bids to make quota, even if it puts them over total.