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  #106  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:47 AM
alum alum is offline
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I thought a PNM maximized her invitations and had to cut some groups for the next round, she could drop M, N, O by doing a "regret with interest" . Then if the number of a PNM's invites are less than the number of parties, add M, N, O back into her schedule.

Of course M,N,O might be less-inclined to invite the PNM back knowing that she had let them go once...

Now that there is the New Recruitment (forgot the correct title), aren't the largest groups with the best rates of return being forced to make huge cuts after Round 1?
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  #107  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:52 AM
carnation carnation is offline
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Yes, but most of them release the most heavily after second parties because they have to keep legacies and recommended women for at least one invitational.

I don't know if Auburn allows "regret with interest" these days. They didn't in the seventies or eighties and I think they should, particularly for the PNMs who come into recruitment not knowing the groups beforehand. There are so many groups that's it hard to tell them apart!("Who was it that had ladybugs?" "Whose colors were double blue?", etc.)
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  #108  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:56 AM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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It's a mix of factors, and the PNMs don't get that much control. Dropping out when they don't like their remaining options is one of the few decisions that they do get to make. (Even signing a bid card, unless you suicide, you might get your second or third choice.)

Unless we expect them just to be a the mercy of the groups' selection and matching process all the way through, I think that we have to see that dropping out is no worse than a group cutting a girl after first based one 15 minute interaction. Sure, it's short sighted, but I don't think it's fair to the women to call them the superficial ones when really the worst we can honestly say is that they are AS superficial not more so.

SEC recruitment makes you crazy. I think it's really important for moms and dads to make sure that they don't make is seem like a bigger deal than it is. I firmly believe daughters would be better off with parents who took the attitude that "hey, that's a setback, but now what are you going to do? When we toured campus, you mentioned that you really wanted to be on the group that. .. have you looked into that?"

If you try to ride in on your white horse to rescue her, it sends the message that the setback is more important than it is. It also sends the message that she should look to you primarily for comfort at a stage of life and an occasion of such little longterm significance that it might be much better to encourage her to go out and do something herself.

Spending the day with mom means it was a day spent not meeting new college friends and sets her apart further.

Now, I know that Auburn's bid day involves parents, so it might really be nice to have you there. But push her ahead of this disappointment, don't wallow in it with her or attach any significance to it.
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  #109  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:00 PM
gogreekmom gogreekmom is offline
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By the way, AuburnMom...how are things going for your daughter?
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  #110  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:01 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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Originally Posted by carnation View Post
Yes, but most of them release the most heavily after second parties because they have to keep legacies and recommended women for at least one invitational.

I don't know if Auburn allows "regret with interest" these days. They didn't in the seventies or eighties and I think they should, particularly for the PNMs who come into recruitment not knowing the groups beforehand. There are so many groups that's it hard to tell them apart!("Who was it that had ladybugs?" "Whose colors were double blue?", etc.)
Someone here explained to me that inviting back regret with interests really messes up the release figures. I think the reasoning went like this: since the number of girls that you can invite goes down with each round, if a group re-invites a RWI, they essentially choose her over a guest who attended the round rather than regretted.

It seems like there'd be a way to build in regrets with interest in to the process, like the flex lists, though.
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  #111  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:18 PM
AUDeltaGam AUDeltaGam is offline
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Originally Posted by AU_ZTA86 View Post
Auburn is a great school - sure it's not 'Harvard' but what is, Harvard??

Second, yes, recruitment is competitive but it isn't everything. There's a reason your daughter chose Auburn. It's a school. It's a spirit. There's no campus on earth like it. Greek life is not the end all be all at Auburn. There are a ton other ways to be involved on campus. I had just as many friends that were independent as greek. I know it's a tough time but don't let it get your daughter down. It will be tough but she'll weather it. War Eagle!!!!
I couldn't have said it better myself
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  #112  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:24 PM
doubleblue&gold doubleblue&gold is offline
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Regret with interest helps both parties. It gives the PNMs a chance to look over groups they still could fit in. Same way with the groups. They can look over someone again they were willing to invite back and help their numbers also if PNMs cut them heavily.
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  #113  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:30 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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Originally Posted by doubleblue&gold View Post
Regret with interest helps both parties. It gives the PNMs a chance to look over groups they still could fit in. Same way with the groups. They can look over someone again they were willing to invite back and help their numbers also if PNMs cut them heavily.
Oh, I agree. But some of the panhellenic advisers on here, I believe, explained that it was harder to implement that it's used to be.

It seems like it would be easier with priority ranking; the groups could just pick them back up if others declined invitations.

There are always a couple of folks on here who really feel it's important for PNMs to be able to cut groups even if they aren't going back to the maximum number of parties, but I tend to think it's in their long term best interest to have as full a schedule if they can.
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  #114  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:31 PM
Army Wife'79 Army Wife'79 is offline
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I am usually a lurker on this board but today will jump in. I wonder if the PNM's took the Myers Briggs Personality Type Indicator test what it would show? Would they all be the same type? I think that rushing as an introvert is painful and a killer at an SEC school. Groups need both Queen Bee's and Worker Bee's in order to be successful. The QB has the great plans and is a good "front person" and the WB is the quiet behind the scenes type who can implement the plans making the QB look great. I have found this to be true in my experience with Junior League and the Officer's Wives Clubs. When you have a room full of QB's there can be problems. Momto2, I am so sorry for your daughters experience. I feel your pain, as it is exactly what I went thru years ago. My introverted daughter (4.45 GPA, Honors College, great resume & looks, size 6, yadda yadda yadda) went to 3 prefs and got no bids at an SEC school. I think rushing was like walking on cut glass for her but she took herself out of her comfort zone and did it. Since she was from out of state (another hurdle) I encouraged it so she could make friends. For her entire life she had been moved every 2 years ripping her away from her friends, dance class, activities etc. After she got "the call" she got involved in a lot of activities and was happy and in Jan. she was COB'd b/c by that time many girls got to know her slowly and realize how great she was.
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  #115  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:35 PM
Regina Filangie Regina Filangie is offline
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I guess my point was that not everyone who starts recruitment and wants to be in a sorority will get a bid no matter how open minded they are. I agree that in many cases it's because the girls will only consider the top tier houses and that's their own fault. However it doesn't sound like momto2gals's daughter had that attitude. So why was she cut? Who knows... Like others have said PNMs are required to rank the houses and someone has to be last on the list, so they're pretty much at the mercy of the chapters that invite them back.

momto2gals - if your daughter still wants to be in a sorority she can go to go to the greek life office and sign up for COB. There's no guarantee that the houses she really liked will do COB or that she'll get a bid out of it but she might end up finding another house that she likes just as much. But I agree with others it might be good to back off a little and let your daughter figure out how she wants to continue on her own. She might decide that she's more interested in other campus groups and that sorority life isn't as much of a priority as she thought. I know a bunch of people who go to or went to Auburn and only 1 of them is in a sorority, and she didn't pledge until her sophomore year. All of them love it and wouldn't trade their experience at Auburn for anything so I'm sure your daughter will find her niche.

auburnmom and elaine - how's it going for your girls?
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  #116  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:42 PM
UGAalum94 UGAalum94 is offline
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Army Wife,

Did your daughter list all three on her bid card and not become a quota addition? That' really interesting. I thought almost every SEC campus had gone to guaranteed matching for girls who maximized their options.

I only know about one SEC school's rush first hand, but I think the groups do end up with a mix of true personality types, but that the members who would naturally be introverts are socially trained, for lack of a better word, to believably fake extroversion during recruitment. (Sort of what your daughter must have done to be invited to three prefs.)

I think it's true for introverts with good manners generally that they make themselves interact in situations that require it, even though they'd rather hang back.
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  #117  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:44 PM
OleMissGlitter OleMissGlitter is offline
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In the words of a very wise Director of Greek Life at Ole Miss, "Rush is not a guaranteed process." I will never forget when I heard those words when I went through rush at Ole Miss in August of 1996 (Before they moved it back!).

I have seen many wonderful PNMs go through rush at Ole Miss and they are released by all of the sororities. I wouldn't take it personally and I'm sure your daughter tried her best. Recruitment at any SEC school is competitive, especially Auburn where I'd say most of the sororities there are top chapters of their International Organization. This means it's going to be harder to journey through the entire process. And like some others on here have said, I bet at least 90% of the PNMs going through recruitment at Auburn, all have high GPA's, activities, legacies, lots of recs, etc....so they can't take everyone but that shouldn't reflect upon your daughter's character or any other PNM who was released.

I would tell your daughter to put her chin up and to get ready for her first week of classes at Auburn on the 16th. I would also tell her to get involved with other groups on campus. She also should sign up for COB with the Greek Life office. Auburn is an excellent university, so she should be able to submerge herself in everything else going on there.
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  #118  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:51 PM
Momto2gals Momto2gals is offline
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That's not it at all

What I mean to say is this. I KNOW my daughter is a wonderful person and would be an amazing addition to any sorority at Auburn. I was a little bit ill when I wrote that first comment this morning. What I meant by her doing something wrong is that just maybe she didn't talk enough or ask the sororities enough questions about themselves or something. She has always been just a little bit on the shy side. She has an amazing resume and although her grades could have been a bit better (3.5) I am hearing stories of girls with lower GPAs that got bids. When you want something bad enough in life you have to learn to put out 110 percent effort to get it. All I meant was that maybe she didn't put out the effort she should have. I have always pushed my girls to work as hard as they can because that is just a lesson you have to teach your kids in life. To try their hardest at everything. And the other thing I meant was that maybe it would have been easier for her at a different university to get into a sorority. I have not given up on Auburn though. I am sincerely hoping she will find many activities to get involved in on campus. There are a lot of non Greek organizations that she can get involved in if they will let her. I was just under the impression that it was a lot easier to be connected to things if you were in a sorority. I definately don't want her sitting in the dorm all day on the computer or whatever. She is a wonderful girl that has made me very proud. You all don't know her or some of the things she has been through in her life. You don't know what my life has been like either. For her to even be at Auburn is an amazing accomplishment for her. She is just an amazing person and I am not just saying that because I am her Mother. Many people in our community have seen her in that same light. She is disappointed but she isn't giving up by a long shot. I haven't raised her to give up. I hope you all can see where I am coming from. And yes to be in a sorority is a BIG DEAL. If it wasn't a big deal then why bother to go through recruitment. For one thing it will guarantee her a place in a dorm next year which is important also. It will help her make some good quality friends because like I said she is a little shy. And it also teaches one responsibilities, giving to the community, traditions, respect for oneself and others. There are LOTS of reasons to pledge a sorority and honestly I can't think of a single one not to. Maybe some folks don't feel that way but that is just the way I feel.
Ok. I won't write anymore on here.
Most of you have been very helpful and concerned and thoughtful and for that I am grateful and appreciative. God Bless.
By the way.. I was an Alpha Sigma Tau in college back in the day. I wouldn't take NOTHING for that experience and probobly wouldn't have lasted in college a semester without my sorority sisters and my duties.
I hope I have clarified a little bit more about what I meant and why I feel the way I do.
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  #119  
Old 08-12-2007, 12:56 PM
Army Wife'79 Army Wife'79 is offline
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Alas, no she did not. Our family knew zero about Greek life b/c I wasn't Greek in college (grew up in a family with 4 females and the LAST thing I wanted in college was to be around more estrogen) and her dad went to the U.S. Military Academy so we were bozos in the entire process. Being out of state with no connections she had no preconceived notions on "top tier etc." and would have joined any group as long as it wasn't full of serial killers. There was one sorority that was smaller than the others and the tent talk included "they didn't previously make quota therefore they will soon close down" so she felt she shouldn't join something that would disappear soon (like her entire life did in the military with each move) so she suicided. (Helpful advice from other 18 yr olds from that state who knew everything - NOT) Very bad move but back then we had never heard of Greek Chat and knew nothing about sororities except than they would be friends for life, encourage volunteerism and make a difference in the grander scheme of things. I told her I thought it would be like Junior League for college kids. Funny thing is, the smaller sorority is still there and she actually said they were the nicest, least phony of many of the groups there during rush. Go figure.
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  #120  
Old 08-12-2007, 01:05 PM
AChiOhSnap AChiOhSnap is offline
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Originally Posted by Momto2gals View Post
When you want something bad enough in life you have to learn to put out 110 percent effort to get it. All I meant was that maybe she didn't put out the effort she should have. I have always pushed my girls to work as hard as they can because that is just a lesson you have to teach your kids in life. To try their hardest at everything. And the other thing I meant was that maybe it would have been easier for her at a different university to get into a sorority. I have not given up on Auburn though. I am sincerely hoping she will find many activities to get involved in on campus. There are a lot of non Greek organizations that she can get involved in if they will let her. I was just under the impression that it was a lot easier to be connected to things if you were in a sorority. I definately don't want her sitting in the dorm all day on the computer or whatever. She is a wonderful girl that has made me very proud. You all don't know her or some of the things she has been through in her life. You don't know what my life has been like either. For her to even be at Auburn is an amazing accomplishment for her. She is just an amazing person and I am not just saying that because I am her Mother. Many people in our community have seen her in that same light. She is disappointed but she isn't giving up by a long shot. I haven't raised her to give up. I hope you all can see where I am coming from. And yes to be in a sorority is a BIG DEAL. If it wasn't a big deal then why bother to go through recruitment. For one thing it will guarantee her a place in a dorm next year which is important also. It will help her make some good quality friends because like I said she is a little shy. And it also teaches one responsibilities, giving to the community, traditions, respect for oneself and others. There are LOTS of reasons to pledge a sorority and honestly I can't think of a single one not to.[/COLOR]
I hope I have clarified a little bit more about what I meant and why I feel the way I do.
Perhaps your daughter being in a sorority was more important to you than it was to her?

I'm sure that your daughter is a great girl, but if she's saying at the end of her recruitment that it wasn't a big deal that she was dropped, then maybe it really isn't to her and maybe you shouldn't get so bent out of shape about it.

I'm sure she's still feeling bad at the end of the day, even if it really isn't that big of a deal to her (rejection never feels good to anyone, period) and maybe she needs your unconditional support, not you quizzing her on if "she tried her best" and questioning whether or not she should have gone to another school to have a more successful recruitment experience. BTW, the answer to your question is YES: your daughter probably would have had a much easier time getting placed in a "top" sorority at another school but she chose AUBURN, not another school. At the end of the day, that's apparently more important to her than recruitment.

I'm not sure of the exact proportions at Auburn but at other SEC schools Greeks are in the minority. You can't really expect that the sorority connections will make your college experience THAT much easier. Either way, a student has to be willling to take the initiative and really own their college experience. I'm nearly certain your daughter won't sit on her computer all day and become a hermit simply because she didn't join a sorority.

And give me a break: the guaranteed place in a dorm for next year is NOT something you or her should be worrying about right now. The other reasons you listed? Well, you're preaching to the choir on that one, but there are other organizations that offer the same benefits as a sorority.

I know you've had your goodbye "I won't be posting on here again" manifesto, and I'm truly sorry for your daughter that it didn't work out, but I encourage you to take a couple days, chill out and get this in perspective, and update us on what your daughter decides to do (COB, joining activities, whatever). It's up to you.


ETA: Anyway, I'm really sick of this hijack, and I really want to hear how AuburnMom's daughter is doing!!! I hope everything is going well!
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Last edited by AChiOhSnap; 08-12-2007 at 01:08 PM.
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