GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Greek Life

Greek Life This forum is for various discussion topics regarding greek life. If you are posting a non-greek related message, please do so in one of the General Chat Topic forums.


Register Now for FREE!
Join GreekChat.com, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 316,928
Threads: 115,809
Posts: 2,175,253
Welcome to our newest member, AvisAmaral
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 07-27-2020, 12:31 PM
carnation carnation is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,250
These aren't even steps. They are totally unrelated to inclusion. I know a black DG who has a little girl, and she's majorly upset about these virtue-signaling new policies that crap on legacies.
__________________
WARR EAGLE!!! WOOO PIG! SOOIE!! HAIL STATE!!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-27-2020, 12:36 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Land of Chaos
Posts: 9,137
I'm proud of Gamma Phi Beta's first steps. We've also had a series of table talks with our sisters who are POC, and continue to look for ways to be more inclusive. https://www.gammaphibeta.org/AntiRacismResources

Oh, and to stay on topic: we still value legacies.
__________________
Gamma Phi Beta
Courtesy is owed, respect is earned, love is given.
Proud daughter AND mother of a Gamma Phi. 3 generations of love, labor, learning and loyalty.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 07-27-2020, 01:05 PM
shadokat shadokat is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 3,589
Send a message via AIM to shadokat Send a message via Yahoo to shadokat
Unfortunately the collegiate chapter resources are all behind a firewall. If these are really good ideas, we should learn to share with all of the NPC. Just my .02.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle View Post
I'm proud of Gamma Phi Beta's first steps. We've also had a series of table talks with our sisters who are POC, and continue to look for ways to be more inclusive. https://www.gammaphibeta.org/AntiRacismResources

Oh, and to stay on topic: we still value legacies.
__________________
Be a leader; Be Yourself; Be DPhiE - Esse Quam Videri
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 07-27-2020, 01:44 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Land of Chaos
Posts: 9,137
Sen reported they are now public.
__________________
Gamma Phi Beta
Courtesy is owed, respect is earned, love is given.
Proud daughter AND mother of a Gamma Phi. 3 generations of love, labor, learning and loyalty.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 07-27-2020, 05:27 PM
Theta1234 Theta1234 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 94
Over this last year, DD and I have had many discussions on the issue of legacy. Each of us are involved with two different chapters and it was interesting to see how the two chapters interpreted Theta's previous policy.

DD was completely in favor of adjusting the policy--but not eliminating all "perks" of legacy. She talked about the division that occurred in her new member class between the legacies and non-legacies. It broke my heart to hear that some of the ladies felt "less-than" for not being legacies.

She brought up some very valid points that I felt needed further exploration. If that discussion had been brought to the membership--or at least chapter leadership (advisors, officers, etc.) I think the ultimate decision would have been fully embraced--and perhaps the solution would look a little different that the current one. At the same time, with the way the decision was made--by just the Grand Council--it might just as easily be adjusted in the future.

I recognize there was a problem felt at some schools. With the vast expansion of chapters and the rise of "mega" chapters, at some schools, the number of legacies was simply overwhelming. The actives want to have complete control over who their sisters might be--just as we did--and the removal of special treatment for legacies gives the actives more control. I do wonder if this wasn't more of a control issue than an inclusion issue. Several of the chapters that I am familiar with look NOTHING like the Hollywood interpretation of a sorority.

I must admit, I was a bit heart-broken when I read the decision--especially the removal of a minimum GPA (if that part isn't public, please PM me and I will remove that comment.). The Mr--in his typical cheeky self--turned to me and sang one of our old college "songs." He sang, "Theta born, Theta bred..." He then offered a sage observation:

"Our daughter has three besties in her chapter. They could all be her twins. They all share the same values and same heart for other people. Their mommas all happen to be Thetas as well. If you really believe everything you spout--about how the values Theta permeate everything you do--don't you think that rubs off on others? Don't you think that actives would recognize those values in PNMS and they will rise to the top--with or without any extra help?"

(Ok, so he didn't get the whole actives and PNM terminology exactly like this, but bear with me.).

There was a lot of truth in that and at the same time it addressed the very issue at hand--are groups made stronger when they hold shared values or are they stronger when they embrace diverse values? At my heart, I can't dream of a world where scholarship, leadership personal excellence and a heart for humanity are not shared values. We may have differing personal experiences and paths that we follow to uphold those values, but in the end, doesn't there need to be some common ground to hold a group together and help guide its direction? These were all the things we discussed this last week.

Anyway, I'm firmly torn on this issue. It will be a very different recruitment this fall and it will be very interesting to see how things play out over the next few years. DD has observed that you will have two PNM classes that really don't know "how to recruit." I wonder if that isn't a bad thing. Perhaps these new classes will come up with different ways that reflect current values and not tradition. Will door stacks and bouncing be replaced by...?

After discussing this ad nauseam, the Mr asked if we could stop talking about "the whole sorority thing" and get back to listening to Hamilton on our Great American Road Trip. I think he actually sang that request as well.

Last edited by Theta1234; 07-27-2020 at 05:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 07-27-2020, 07:45 PM
DGTess DGTess is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,002
Send a message via Yahoo to DGTess
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnation View Post
These aren't even steps. They are totally unrelated to inclusion. I know a black DG who has a little girl, and she's majorly upset about these virtue-signaling new policies that crap on legacies.
Wow.

I know a black DG and she supports this policy.

Which one speaks for her race?
__________________
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population.-Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 07-27-2020, 07:48 PM
carnation carnation is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,250
Neither. Each one speaks for herself.
__________________
WARR EAGLE!!! WOOO PIG! SOOIE!! HAIL STATE!!
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 07-28-2020, 08:58 AM
GreekOne GreekOne is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theta1234 View Post
Over this last year, DD and I have had many discussions on the issue of legacy. Each of us are involved with two different chapters and it was interesting to see how the two chapters interpreted Theta's previous policy.

DD was completely in favor of adjusting the policy--but not eliminating all "perks" of legacy. She talked about the division that occurred in her new member class between the legacies and non-legacies. It broke my heart to hear that some of the ladies felt "less-than" for not being legacies.

She brought up some very valid points that I felt needed further exploration. If that discussion had been brought to the membership--or at least chapter leadership (advisors, officers, etc.) I think the ultimate decision would have been fully embraced--and perhaps the solution would look a little different that the current one. At the same time, with the way the decision was made--by just the Grand Council--it might just as easily be adjusted in the future.

I recognize there was a problem felt at some schools. With the vast expansion of chapters and the rise of "mega" chapters, at some schools, the number of legacies was simply overwhelming. The actives want to have complete control over who their sisters might be--just as we did--and the removal of special treatment for legacies gives the actives more control. I do wonder if this wasn't more of a control issue than an inclusion issue. Several of the chapters that I am familiar with look NOTHING like the Hollywood interpretation of a sorority.

I must admit, I was a bit heart-broken when I read the decision--especially the removal of a minimum GPA (if that part isn't public, please PM me and I will remove that comment.). The Mr--in his typical cheeky self--turned to me and sang one of our old college "songs." He sang, "Theta born, Theta bred..." He then offered a sage observation:

"Our daughter has three besties in her chapter. They could all be her twins. They all share the same values and same heart for other people. Their mommas all happen to be Thetas as well. If you really believe everything you spout--about how the values Theta permeate everything you do--don't you think that rubs off on others? Don't you think that actives would recognize those values in PNMS and they will rise to the top--with or without any extra help?"

(Ok, so he didn't get the whole actives and PNM terminology exactly like this, but bear with me.).

There was a lot of truth in that and at the same time it addressed the very issue at hand--are groups made stronger when they hold shared values or are they stronger when they embrace diverse values? At my heart, I can't dream of a world where scholarship, leadership personal excellence and a heart for humanity are not shared values. We may have differing personal experiences and paths that we follow to uphold those values, but in the end, doesn't there need to be some common ground to hold a group together and help guide its direction? These were all the things we discussed this last week.

Anyway, I'm firmly torn on this issue. It will be a very different recruitment this fall and it will be very interesting to see how things play out over the next few years. DD has observed that you will have two PNM classes that really don't know "how to recruit." I wonder if that isn't a bad thing. Perhaps these new classes will come up with different ways that reflect current values and not tradition. Will door stacks and bouncing be replaced by...?

After discussing this ad nauseam, the Mr asked if we could stop talking about "the whole sorority thing" and get back to listening to Hamilton on our Great American Road Trip. I think he actually sang that request as well.
Sounds like a wonderful, thoughtful discussion touching on many important points. I agree that, above all else, the shared values should be what brings members together and will hold a chapter together through a lifetime.

Your husband sounds like a great sport!!
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 07-28-2020, 08:21 PM
sororanon sororanon is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 19
My cynical side thinks that this was actually an easy "give" for most NPC orgs.

Let's face it, managing a legacy policy is a nightmare for a lot of chapters. I'm sure a lot of alums are not going to be happy about this and will raise a stink. HOWEVER ... What they aren't cancelling or speaking to is the unspoken and elitist policy of "VIP" PNMS. You know the one ... a PNM will be given VIP status if they are connected to a well-placed higher-up member. One phone call from a regional or national leader telling a recruitment advisor that they need to take Miss XYZ because she is related to muckety-muck old lady who donates money in a big way, etc. Take her even if your chapter doesn't like her, doesn't want her, doesn't fit in, whatever. We all know that this happens now. Those are going to be the only ones that get special passes into rounds and the rest of you can take a flying leap.

LET THE ARM TWISTING BEGIN!

I know. Cynical.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 07-30-2020, 03:03 PM
kdonline kdonline is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Seattle, WA Hometown: Miami, FL
Posts: 982
Legacy “perks” are outdated, mostly because sorority recruitments are overrun with them, and these policies cause more headaches during recruitment.

A PNM should be invited to join a sorority on *her own* merits. If she’s a legacy, then that’s nice. But it shouldn’t be a reason why the PNM is selected. But all of our organizations want quality women: women who are academically solid, confident leaders, and volunteer in the community.
__________________
Annie / KD Online
Kappa Delta Sorority alumna %%%% Univ. of Florida - GO GATORS!! -=;==;<
Annie Online on Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 07-30-2020, 07:31 PM
Leora Leora is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 9
Typing from my phone so apologies if it's wonky, but just got this email entitled "Changes to Legacy Considerations." I'm just going to quote the most relevant portion.

"Today, we write with an important update which we felt you need to be aware. Pi Beta Phi is providing chapters flexibility as to how they implement our legacy policy. (Potential New Members whose sister, mother or grandmother is an initiated member of Pi Beta Phi is defined as a legacy).

The Pi Beta Phi Constitution and Statutes states “special consideration shall be given to legacies whose qualifications are comparable to those of other Potential New Members (PNMs).” Chapter Bylaws dictate how that special consideration is applied.

Historically, legacies participating in primary recruitment have received the following courtesies:
an invitation to the first invitational round, and if attending the Preference round, the legacy is placed at the top of the chapter’s Bid List.

After much conversation and discussion, Grand Council has decided chapters will be allowed to choose from three legacy courtesy options for the 2020-2021 academic year. Allowing chapters a choice provides the Fraternity opportunity to collect relevant information to shape future policy. These options are as follows:

1. Follow existing legacy procedures. These chapters will invite all legacies to the first invitational round and if invited to Preference, legacies will be placed at the top of the bid list.
2. Eliminate the top of the bid list courtesy but keep the first-round invitation courtesy. These chapters will invite legacies to the first invitational round.
3. Eliminate the top of the bid list courtesy and the first-round invitation courtesy. These chapters will consider legacies just as they consider any other PNM for membership. These chapters will meet the requirements of the Constitution and Statutes special consideration by identifying all legacies for members of the chapter prior to the start of recruitment.

Today, chapter officers and Alumnae Advisory Committee (AAC) members were made aware of these options and how to begin the effort of exploring what is best for their chapter. It is imperative we support our collegiate sisters and do not place pressure on a chapter to select one option over another."

Personally, I would have loved to see an "eliminate the first round courtesy invite and keep the top of the bid list" option, but I am overall thankful that the opinion of collegiate members is being asked for. I'm an alumna, so will continue to follow with interest!

Last edited by Leora; 07-30-2020 at 07:38 PM. Reason: Tried to get rid of the weird stars.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07-30-2020, 07:40 PM
carnation carnation is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,250
Well, I'm glad that we're getting options. I can't imagine the explosions and amount of money withdrawn if there had been across-the-board screwing over of legacies.

I also get that some chapters have far more legacies rushing than they can pledge--my own chapter faces that this fall--but that has never prevented any chapter of any sorority from taking who they really wanted.

And I agree, that other option would have been fantastic.
__________________
WARR EAGLE!!! WOOO PIG! SOOIE!! HAIL STATE!!
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 07-30-2020, 07:56 PM
thetalady thetalady is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Big D
Posts: 2,898
I agree that eliminating the invitational round, but placing on the 1st bid list is a great option. Kind of strange that that isn't one of the options. But GOOD FOR PI PHI that you got options!! This is the way an important change in policy should be done.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:31 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Land of Chaos
Posts: 9,137
We've had a committee investigating legacy policy since October. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. I like the options Pi Phi has given chapters.
__________________
Gamma Phi Beta
Courtesy is owed, respect is earned, love is given.
Proud daughter AND mother of a Gamma Phi. 3 generations of love, labor, learning and loyalty.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:40 PM
honeychile's Avatar
honeychile honeychile is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counting my blessings!
Posts: 27,633
Very interesting options, and I do hope that more GLOs will at least consider them.
__________________
~ *~"ADPi until I die!"~*~
Proud to be a Macon Magnolia
"He who is not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alpha Phi will give no preferential treatment to legacies Jen Greek Life 16 07-16-2020 06:47 PM
<link removed> fratstar2662 Greek Life 10 11-09-2011 11:23 AM
best acne treatment norcalchick Chit Chat 21 08-09-2004 11:16 AM
Lambda Chi Removed from ASU Nhfulmer Risk Management - Hazing & etc. 1 10-01-2003 12:34 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.