GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > General Chat Topics > News & Politics


Register Now for FREE!
Join GreekChat.com, The Fraternity & Sorority Greek Chat Network. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

  I agree to forum rules 

» GC Stats
Members: 325,126
Threads: 115,503
Posts: 2,196,056
Welcome to our newest member, babobygooglet93
» Online Users: 1,944
0 members and 1,944 guests
No Members online
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 02-24-2003, 03:53 PM
SAEalumnus SAEalumnus is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,756
Quote:
Originally posted by valkyrie
Not to be a bleeding heart troublemaker here, but how about if we try this: how about taking the few seconds it takes to write a post on greekchat about how much we think it sucks that an illegal immigrant got a transplant that could've gone to a tax paying American and instead doing something to encourage other tax paying Americans to become organ donors? It's not this girl's fault that there aren't enough organs; it's the fault of those who can't be bothered to sign a donor card.

I'm not familiar with the facts of this case, but IMHO, if somebody at the hospital screwed up, he or she should be held accountable. I'm not sure I understand what people are saying here -- are you saying that because the victim was an illegal immigrant then they have no recourse? They should take their lumps and go away? Isn't that blaming the victim (which in my view is NEVER appropriate)?
1. Certainly the hospital screwed up (f.u.b.a.r. doesn't quite cut it here), so they should be held accountable... but!

2. Here in the real world, we have limited resources with which to work. Tax paying US citizens finance them, and a good portion of them go to those who contribute nothing to the system from which they so happily withdraw resources. My point is that one shouldn't be able to "withdraw funds from an account into which no deposits in your name have been made" as it were. Granted I'm coming at this from a typical Republican standpoint, but honestly we should be realistic about this kind of thing. After all, of what value is citizenship if citizenship provides no benefits that anyone else can't get?
__________________
SAE, Master Mason & Past Master, Sciot, 32° Scottish Rite Mason, RAM/SEM/KT York Rite Mason, Shriner, SK (Amaranth)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-24-2003, 03:56 PM
Peaches-n-Cream Peaches-n-Cream is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: New York City
Posts: 10,829
Send a message via AIM to Peaches-n-Cream
Were they in this country illegally? Is that really the issue? The Shah of Iran came to the US for medical assistance 25 years ago as have many other wealthy, prominent people because the US medical system has the reputation of being among the best in the world. There are organizations that travel abroad to give medical help to people who are ill. Sometimes they bring gravely ill people to the US for help. I see nothing wrong with compassion for the ill regardless of their nationality or economic status.

My problem isn't the nationality of this girl. My problem is that the medical system f---ed up so badly when they gave her the wrong blood type organs. This is a stupid mistake that should have been caught. Someone else could have benefitted from those organs. It was a waste, and it cost this girl her life.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-24-2003, 04:01 PM
Shark In Skirt Shark In Skirt is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 88
Send a message via AIM to Shark In Skirt Send a message via Yahoo to Shark In Skirt
Quote:
Originally posted by Cream
Were they in this country illegally? Is that really the issue? The Shah of Iran came to the US for medical assistance 25 years ago as have many other wealthy, prominent people because the US medical system has the reputation of being among the best in the world. There are organizations that travel abroad to give medical help to people who are ill. Sometimes they bring gravely ill people to the US for help. I see nothing wrong with compassion for the ill regardless of their nationality or economic status.

My problem isn't the nationality of this girl. My problem is that the medical system f---ed up so badly when they gave her the wrong blood type organs. This is a stupid mistake that should have been caught. Someone else could have benefitted from those organs. It was a waste, and it cost this girl her life.
I think some of us are speaking more generally than in this specific case, in which Jessica did indeed have a benefactor who helped raise money to pay the bills (although I wonder exactly how many of the bills were left for taxpayers to pay). I'm sure the Shah of Iran managed to pay the hospital for its services.

Yes, the United States does have the best medical institutions, just as we have some of the best educational institutions... want to access them?

Then, fill out the immigration forms, get a Green Card, then get your citizenship, pay your taxes, and voila, they're yours.


XOXO,
Annie.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-24-2003, 04:22 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Home.
Posts: 8,256
I'm with Valkryie here. Instead of complaining, use that anger and frustration you have and become organ donors! To make things even better, join the bone marrow registry too! It takes 5 minutes to become an organ donor. My heart may be bleeding, but it will go to good use after my death.

From what I've heard, the family had a benefactor--so the illegal immigrant status wouldn't matter at all unless they were requesting Medicare/Medicaid. This is not uncommon for people from other countries, to have a wealthy person, either from here or their home country to pay their expenses. This happened with the conjoined twins who were separated last year. Going to another country for medical treatment happens all over--Americans do it just as often as those from other nations. In these cases, it's not about CITIZENSHIP as much as it is about MONEY. Green is green, no matter where the person who gives it to you is from.

Mad that they used two sets of organs on her because she's not a citizen? What about when they gave Mickey Mantle, who suffered from alcohol-related cirhrossis of the liver, two livers back-to-back? So, it's better for someone who willfully damaged their own organs to have double transplants because they're American, than it is for a paying non-American suffering from a congenital disorder to have the opportunity to live?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-24-2003, 04:26 PM
wptw wptw is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 306
Cream and Munchkin,

The difference is that the Shah of Iran, King Hussein of Jordan, the conjoined twins, etc. didn't receive their medical care in lieu of someone else. Fortunately, in most cases we have enough resources to treat both the rich imports and the working class homegrown for what ails them. So treating the Shah didn't deprive another needy person of quality care. And I'm fine with that, as long as they pay their bill.

Transplants are obviously the exception because they are in very limited supply. When you give an organ to one person, you effectively take it away from the next person on the list.

There's a big difference.

wptw

Last edited by wptw; 02-24-2003 at 04:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-24-2003, 04:53 PM
Peaches-n-Cream Peaches-n-Cream is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: New York City
Posts: 10,829
Send a message via AIM to Peaches-n-Cream
I thought that the organ transplant list was international. Maybe that is the bone marrow donor list. I'll do a google search.

I can see your point about limited number of organs. It is supply and demand. Unfortunately, the demand outweighs the supply. A way to combat that is to be willing to donate your own organs. Most people don't want to think about things like their sudden, premature death and their organs. I'm reading about organ donation. It's very informative.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-24-2003, 05:22 PM
wptw wptw is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 306
Ah, now if it were an international transplant list, I would feel differently about the whole thing. Then she has as much right to it as anyone.

But...
If you're legitimately on the transplant list, AND you have a sponsor, then when the organ shows up you just travel here on a special visa for medical care. You just get on a plane. You don't pay someone to smuggle you across the border unless you're trying to circumvent the system.

wptw
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-24-2003, 05:23 PM
X-FILEZ-ZPHIB X-FILEZ-ZPHIB is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: RALEIGH NC
Posts: 21
*How do you guys know that she was not put on the waiting list before she got here and decided to come here for the operation?
*also, since implants are very expensive, some people remain on the list because their insurance will not cover the entire procedure. hospitals are a business to so they want their $. It Jessica's family had the money then she was "entitled" to have the surgery.
Also, i think that hospital should get a lot more than they will as far as "punishment". It is about an hour down the street from me here in NC and the motto say be careful if you go into Duke becuase you might not come out alive. That is teriible because it is also one of the best hospitals in NC.
I am glad her surgeon took the blame but he won't apologize for his mistake.

If she had just died and had been given the right organs in the first palce, would it be such a big deal?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-24-2003, 05:25 PM
ladybug1116 ladybug1116 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 706
Send a message via AIM to ladybug1116
The whole situation is just sick from several standpoints.

To bring up a point...For all of you who complaining about paying for the medical care of this girl....what about the THOUSANDS of other people (immigrants and citizens) who have NO insurance who come to indigent hospitals (meaning the hospital can not refuse treatment based on ability--or inability--to pay) for medical care...both routine and emergency??? Believe me when I say they drive up the cost of healthcare just as much. I see it all the time...the hospital I work at is an indigent facility. Are you saying that the only people who deserve to be treated anywhere are those with insurance?? It's just a question but it seems this is how many of you feel...please correct me if I'm wrong. (And for the record, I'm not a bleeding heart...I'm just trying to make sense of the discussion).
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-24-2003, 05:40 PM
swissmiss04 swissmiss04 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: On the street where I live
Posts: 1,863
Send a message via AIM to swissmiss04
Good point ladybug. But what pisses me off is that after all that rigamarole, they wouldn't donate her viable organs. What the huh???! The least they could do is help others after they had been helped soooo much.
Blockbuster should be in charge of the INS. Why, you ask? People come to and fro illegally all the time, overstay their visa, etc. If your movie is even a couple days late be damn sure that Blockbuster will be all over you to get it back (plus fees). I do resent that they came here illegally to get treatment (if they were legal I'd have no problem) and also took 2 sets of organs that theoretically could have saved the lives of 4 or more people. One of my friends died after a lung lobe transplant (the guys that donated were voluntary live donors) and since then I've really pushed everyone I know to donate anything they can. I didn't consider those to be a waste because a) the people who donated didn't have to die or even be harmed and b) her folks are legal, upstanding, tax paying citizens w/ insurance. She battled cystic fibrosis for all 20 years of her life, and when she did die, her parents offered up anything viable to help other families. How noble is that?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-24-2003, 05:53 PM
wptw wptw is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 306
ZphiB, it’s not about who pays for the procedure. It’s already established she had a sponsor who was taking care of the bill. So try to let that go for the moment.

If the girl had cancer, we probably wouldn’t be so upset because there’s plenty of cancer doctors and cancer drugs here in the US to go around. If you’ve got money, then crawl fly or swim over and feel free to contribute those dollars to our economy.

It’s not about that.

It’s about 1 heart being available and 2 people needing it. Who do you give it to? The guy who played by all the rules his whole life and contributed his share to the community? Or the girl who never contributed a single thing but managed to get her name on the list and managed to sneak in illegally?

Do you really not see a difference between the cancer scenario and the transplant scenario?

To ladybug’s point…
For the sake of a strong society, I am willing to contribute some of my tax dollars to help pay for healthcare for people who can’t afford it. But when people sneak into this country, never contribute a dime to the pot, THEN show up and want free medical care, you bet that pisses me off.

wptw
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-24-2003, 07:19 PM
ZTABullwinkle ZTABullwinkle is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: South of the Mason-Dixon line
Posts: 1,627
Send a message via AIM to ZTABullwinkle
I am going to add my $.02 on this topic...I have had my organ donor card signed ever since I got my driver's license. My best friend in high school was killed right before my senior year in high school started. Plus I am a Paramedic. (Just some background as to why I feel so strongly about this issue...)

-She traveled to North Carolina and was put on the organ donor list from Mexico. I had not heard that she traveled here illegally, or how her bills were being paid. She was not a citizen of the US. (this has been established by previous posters here on GC.)

-When the heart and lungs could not be matched by the regular matching standards of UNOS, the started calling hospitals and offering the organs. Duke was called. This is where the error took place. The surgeon took the organs for Jessica without confirming that they were the "right" blood-type. Therefore, Duke is placing additional steps in place to prevent another tragedy from happening. They didn't realize till the transplant was almost completed that the error had happened. In some cases, transplants of different blood types can be done ( BUT it is VERY rare!)

-Realize that only 11 heart and lung transplants total were done last year in the US, 4 under the age of 13 total were done in the US last year. Jessica received TWO in just over two weeks. This is incredibly odds. It is a sad outcome what has happened to her.

-To declare brain death, it takes two physicians that are not involved with the case. Not to mention extensive tests. It is not decided very easily and it is not done "lightly." Unfortunatly, it also not something that you can get a second opinion on.

-I am sure that the surgeons and anyone involved in Jessica's case from the nurses to the physicians to the spokespeople at Duke University are VERY sorry that this has happened. Plus I am sure they have expressed this to Jessica's family. They are angry, sad, hurt, etc. I don't doubt there will be some major type of settlement in this case. Not to mention many money hungry malpractice lawyers banging down the doors to represent the family. We will probably see a book deal/movie deal for this. (Sorry, I am a bit angered at this point...)

-All in all, it is a very sad point. Everyone has lost in this tragedy. In the end though, SIGN YOUR DONOR CARDS!! People can only benefit from organ donation. You will see tighter standards within UNOS.

Okay, I am getting off my soapbox. I am sorry for the length of my post. I am sorry for the rambling. I am sure there is more that I want to say that I have missed. Or stuff I repeated.
__________________
ZTA

"Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget, falls drop by drop upon our hearts. Until against our will comes the wisdom of God."
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-24-2003, 07:32 PM
X-FILEZ-ZPHIB X-FILEZ-ZPHIB is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: RALEIGH NC
Posts: 21
sorry mptw, i can't let go of the $ issue because even a person who has insurance and follows the rules may not get a transplant if their insurance won't pay for it. it has to be payed for by someone, a lot of the times with the money up front.
coming from the transplant situation and the cancer situation, i've seen both. so whatever you say. if a person cannot afford a major surgery to save their life it does NOT mean they shouldn't get it. and if a person follows all the rules in life it does not mean that they should get a transplant automatically. the doctor's really wasted the organs because someone could have used them before they gave her the wrong ones.

as far as no using her organs, the doctors said at first they were not any good so if I were her family i wouldn't have donated them either.be real. if you are trying to give up something and they say it is no good then you would keep it too.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-24-2003, 08:39 PM
Shark In Skirt Shark In Skirt is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 88
Send a message via AIM to Shark In Skirt Send a message via Yahoo to Shark In Skirt
Quote:
Originally posted by ZTABullwinkle


Plus I am sure they have expressed this to Jessica's family. They are angry, sad, hurt, etc. I don't doubt there will be some major type of settlement in this case. Not to mention many money hungry malpractice lawyers banging down the doors to represent the family. We will probably see a book deal/movie deal for this. (Sorry, I am a bit angered at this point...)

Yeah, because taking more money away from the hospital which has saved countless lives is really going to help the situation. Yes, her family may be hurt, angry, sad, etc., but they're also greedy and selfish as hell if they end up filing a suit.

XOXO,
Annie.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-24-2003, 09:24 PM
damasa damasa is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,681
Send a message via ICQ to damasa Send a message via AIM to damasa Send a message via Yahoo to damasa
Right or wrong.
Illegal or Legal.
Immigrant or not.
I can get passed all of that, I'm all about helping people in their time of need.

Regardless if two sets of organs went to this girl. What troubles me and really actually pissed me off is the fact that the girl's parents wouldn't donate any of her organs that could still be donated after she passed away. TWO other people at least gave her the chance to have their organs, how could the not return the favor? They wanted organs, but they wouldn't allow them to be taken? man PHUCK that,

phuck that.....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.