PA SSHE schools: some struggle, some grow

[*winter*]

http://triblive.com/mobile/5703033-9...-system-brogan

Should West Chester break away from the SSHE? This is the 14 State System of Higher Education colleges in PA?

I'm shocked at some of the numbers, especially Edinboro (which I've always thought of as a great school! I would LOVE to go there for a second degree in nursing!). Then again, considering Slippery Rock was $7700 with r/b when I went there in '98-01 and now it's over 16k for both...it's no wonder enrollment is declining! Crazy.

[33girl]

part of the problem is that many of the schools have undergone ridiculous building programs which drive the costs up beyond what their previous primary audience can afford. I'm guessing half the time students can get more aid from private institutions and go there instead. As far as prez Whitney, I'm not surprised she shares the writer's negative view. Google Clarion University music department and you'll see the kind of bs I'm talking about.

[Xidelt]

Does PA have separate systems for Penn State and the schools discussed in the article? What about schools like Pitt and Temple? I totally thought both of those were private universities until some neighbor kids went there and I realized they were state schools.

[33girl]

The 14 SSHE schools are state-owned.

Penn State, Pitt, Temple and Lincoln (a HBCU) are state-related. (This means they get some state funding but basically do whatever they want.

The University of Pennsylvania is a private institution.

Hope that helps.

[PhoenixAzul]

So I graduated high school in 2003. While I was applying to schools/looking around, I of course looked at/applied to a few state schools here in PA.

Problems? Not enough merit funding. My family is/was blue collar middle class. Not a ton of money, but a modest amount, modest house, etc. All this to say, we had money to live, but not enough to pay the tab for college (especially since my brother and I are 2 years apart). I had the grades and test scores, but not a perfect 1600, not a perfect 4.0, and I wasn't "poor enough", so the tuition bill for an in-state public school was pretty hefty (wish I had kept my spreadsheet on this...). I entered college shortly before Pittsburgh Public announced the Pittsburgh Promise. Bad timing, I has it, no?

Otterbein, being private and out of state (and seeking to improve recruitment of out-of-state urban students) offered me enough merit aid to make my 4 years there significantly less expensive than an in-state public, with smaller class sizes and, to me, the "right" facilities.

So there's the rub. The cost of these state schools used to be well within reach of a steel mill worker's child, and they were that balance of close enough/in the area of home to attract those students. But now with tuition up so high, and merit scholarships harder to get, those students are sometimes finding better deals at private colleges in and out of the state.

I do think that these schools are important- they attract a lot of first-in-the-family college students, and they can offer a great education, and serve communities - as employers and educational institutions - that really need them. But 33 is right on, you can't just keep building without checking the reality of enrollment and tuition costs.

[AOIILisa]

I went to Temple for grad school (MBA) back in the late eighties - with employers picking up part of the tab, I think I maybe paid $10k out of my own pocket. This is before MBA programs got streamlined - I took about 20 courses over 4.5 years. Now, the Fox School of Business at Temple is almost $40k/year according to a co-worker who was looking around at B-schools. Temple undergrad isn't cheap either, my husband's two kids went there and it was $24k a year - I think both of them got some minimal aid from Temple, but not much. I don't even know how people can afford to send kids to college if that is the cheap state - related school.

[TKEmanKM]

Having graduated with my BA (2005) and my MA (2013) from Edinboro, I can tell you that the writing has been on the wall for a while. Many students and parents are left wondering how they are going to pay increased tuition because of increased fees and increases in teacher and staff salaries.

The more that the schools try to trim the more that the teacher and staff union goes absolutely ballistic which increases costs as well. Administration specifically at Edinboro is no better, they have too many higher level Vice Presidents and the President's office of late has too many employees. That coupled with aggressive building programs with new residence halls and building renovations has also raised the cost to the average student.

They have started looking at programs to cut. Music (though I believed that was saved), foreign language (Russian, Spanish, German), and Philosophy have all been slated for the chopping block based on enrollment.

On the Greek end of things, I worked in the student life office for a few years as a GA I think if we lose any more fraternities (we just lost TKE last year, Sig Tau the year before that, and Theta Xi a couple years before that) then I believe that the NIC is going to come in and investigate. While the people in charge of Greek life want the groups to be beneficial and grow there are some in the administration that see this as a risk that can be controlled by controlling the overall number of organizations and making sure they do not get too large. This sentiment is one that I have seen from people all over the state system when I have spoken to them in the past. Granted this is not everyone who works with Greeks in the system but it seems to be a very prevalent opinion. I would think a healthy Greek system would have the potential to bring in students.

[tuco99]

Cheyney with 1200 students is holding the other schools down. They should close Cheyney.


The kicker is Cheyney is threatening the state with lawsuits and wants the state to give them the same funding as schools with 10x as many students.


Hoodienomics always fails. The more we do for the lower class the less they do for themselves so they will always be at the bottom. You can't redistribute brains and work ethics.

[*winter*]

WTH does the second paragraph have to do with the SSHE?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by *winter*

WTH does the second paragraph have to do with the SSHE?

Nothing, just an asshole who keeps coming here to spew his racist drivel. He's been reported and will soon be rebanned.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by TKEmanKM

Having graduated with my BA (2005) and my MA (2013) from Edinboro, I can tell you that the writing has been on the wall for a while. Many students and parents are left wondering how they are going to pay increased tuition because of increased fees and increases in teacher and staff salaries.

The more that the schools try to trim the more that the teacher and staff union goes absolutely ballistic which increases costs as well. Administration specifically at Edinboro is no better, they have too many higher level Vice Presidents and the President's office of late has too many employees. That coupled with aggressive building programs with new residence halls and building renovations has also raised the cost to the average student.

They have started looking at programs to cut. Music (though I believed that was saved), foreign language (Russian, Spanish, German), and Philosophy have all been slated for the chopping block based on enrollment.

On the Greek end of things, I worked in the student life office for a few years as a GA I think if we lose any more fraternities (we just lost TKE last year, Sig Tau the year before that, and Theta Xi a couple years before that) then I believe that the NIC is going to come in and investigate. While the people in charge of Greek life want the groups to be beneficial and grow there are some in the administration that see this as a risk that can be controlled by controlling the overall number of organizations and making sure they do not get too large. This sentiment is one that I have seen from people all over the state system when I have spoken to them in the past. Granted this is not everyone who works with Greeks in the system but it seems to be a very prevalent opinion. I would think a healthy Greek system would have the potential to bring in students.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. One of our alums who works for his GLO's HQ was advocating an alcohol free Greek village a while back. I said if the students asked for it fine, but if not, it would just be another expense to deal with that would drive people away from Greek life. As far as all the new buildings are concerned, my friend's daughter transferred to Slippery Rock and is in one of the new suite style buildings. She HATES it. From what she says, the students actually want to be in the traditional style dorms (you know, the kind where you can actually meet people) but the school is closing them before they hit capacity and pushing them into the new (and much more costly) buildings.

[TKEmanKM]

Originally Posted by 33girl

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. One of our alums who works for his GLO's HQ was advocating an alcohol free Greek village a while back. I said if the students asked for it fine, but if not, it would just be another expense to deal with that would drive people away from Greek life. As far as all the new buildings are concerned, my friend's daughter transferred to Slippery Rock and is in one of the new suite style buildings. She HATES it. From what she says, the students actually want to be in the traditional style dorms (you know, the kind where you can actually meet people) but the school is closing them before they hit capacity and pushing them into the new (and much more costly) buildings.

The same thing happened at Edinboro when they built the new suite style Highlands residence halls. They noted that students were wanting to live in the older, cheaper residence halls (Dearborn, Earp, even the Towers) so consequently the closed the traditional halls and forced all of those students into the Highlands. I remember there was a suggestion to turn the older residence halls into greek housing where organizations had a floor for their organization at a different rate. I do not know if it was ever seriously considered. It just does not seem as if it is a priority these days. Alumni see it too and I believe that donations are going down fast because of that among other things.

[33girl]

The suggestion about the Greek floors cracks me up because in the 70s and early 80s, that's exactly what was in place at Clarion. They basically forced the Greeks out because enrollment went up and they needed the space (and because a certain rival sorority made a mess of their wing, but I hate telling tales out of school). I've advocated Greeks legally or "coincidentally" taking rooms together in Reinhard Villages,.but apparently the school won't allow it.

[tuco99]

Originally Posted by *winter*

WTH does the second paragraph have to do with the SSHE?

It is not rocket science. ALL the schools have the same funding formula. Cheyney already gets MORE per student and they are still crying. The reality is Cheyney is a drain on the SSHE and they do not pull their weight. Their enrollment has dropped about 60% in the last 25 years and they want MORE money for lousy results.


Cheyney went from over 3000 students to 1200 while othere schools went from 4000 to 10000 and Cheyney wants mo funding than the schools with 10,000.

The state should close Cheyney and give the money to West Chester.

[33girl]

Please share which school went from 4k to 10k and the length of time it took them to do so. Also when this occurred.

Yes I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but it'll be amusing to see the "answer. "