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Welcome to our newest member, znathanhulzeo24 |
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04-26-2012, 12:05 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Not Religious and Interested in Fraternity Recruitment
I apologize in advance for bringing up the topic, as I have read some posts that have been related to this topic but have still not received an answer to this question. I will be rushing next fall and am excited about Greek Life. I am attending a school that has a large Greek presence (over 50% rush). I already know that as a humanist/agnostic that I would not be welcomed at Kappa Sig and that Sigma Chi goes beyond asking an initiate to uphold Christian Ideals, but are there any other fraternities that require an oath to God (not just MY GOD (as in science or morality in general)? I have looked at all the national websites that are present on campus and seem to find conflicting information. On one hand I see non-discrimination policies, yet many reference God in mottos or creeds. Please understand that I don't in any way disrespect anothers' beliefs but feel it would be a waste of their time to rush them if there is no way I can, in good conscience be a member. In no way do I want to know initiation secrets, but rather, would I be able to take the oath at FIJI or Beta for example without lying, as I will not compromise on a lifetime commitment. I understand that regional differences may apply to whether or not I actually get a bid. Since we only have three days to rush I would concentrate on those places that would consider me eligible for membership based on my beliefs.
Sorry this post is so long. I apologize in advance if this thread causes religious debate (as the other threads did). though from lurking, it seems there is a lot of debate on here anyway, which makes for informative reading.
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04-26-2012, 12:12 AM
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Welcome to the site.
I have met many, many people in several organizations who are not hardcore (insert religion), but are still active in their GLOs. It's been my experience that (in many cases) the religious aspects are more historical than applied (ex. "We were founded on Christian ideals" rather than "Raise your right hand to God and repeat these scriptures in order to initiate").
I'll defer to some of the IFC-type posters, as that seems like the route you want to go. Good luck.
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04-26-2012, 12:28 AM
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K_S is right. A number of fraternities were founded during a time of religious revival. Because of that, rituals and overall imagery may be of a certain religion. While ABC may have things in their official writing that mention God, most chapters are open minded about people from all (or no) faiths into their chapters, provided they meet other requirements.
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04-26-2012, 12:44 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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I will say that while most stress it in their creeds or mottos, It isn't really such a big deal anymore. As for my organization though, I would rather not say. But being that we have remained this way for almost 100 years, it can be pretty hard for others to adjust (which is a reason our chapters have such high % of people in the faith).
You should go and ask the rush chairs of each group, they are the only ones who can truly answer your question.
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04-26-2012, 12:52 AM
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jazing, the only reason that I don't want to ask all the rush chairs is that I don't want to be "that guy". I am afraid if I make a big thing out of this, they won't want to deal with me. I hope all the groups will have summer rush events, so I can ask informally but in general rush is 3 intense nights then we move into houses and get initiated.
I do thank all of you for responding so far.
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04-26-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilgiant2016
I hope all the groups will have summer rush events, so I can ask informally but in general rush is 3 intense nights then we move into houses and get initiated.
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I failed to catch this earlier, but with most fraternities (there are a few exceptions), you will not be initiated immediately. You'll pledge, which also involves a ceremony. Initiation will happen a number of weeks or months after that, and the time in-between will be spent learning about the fraternity and building bonds with other pledges and with the chapter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Anne
I don't think you would find yourself in any situation in which you are "ineligible" but you very well may find yourself being "uncomfortable".
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There is at least one fraternity whose members have said on GC that inability to affirm faith in a Supreme Being would indeed render a man ineligible for membership. How strictly a particular chapter might enforce that rule is, of course, a different matter.
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Last edited by MysticCat; 04-26-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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04-26-2012, 12:57 AM
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Never thought of it that way. When I rushed I joined the organization specifically for their religious affiliation.
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04-26-2012, 01:07 AM
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"Christian ideals" =/= believing Christ is the Messiah.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is just an old-timey way of saying "Be excellent to each other." You don't have to believe Jesus Christ even existed to know that's a good motto to follow in life.
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04-26-2012, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl
"Christian ideals" =/= believing Christ is the Messiah.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is just an old-timey way of saying "Be excellent to each other." You don't have to believe Jesus Christ even existed to know that's a good motto to follow in life.
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What is funny is that most of the Christian Ideals are based on Jewish Ideals ...
That is actually a phrase coined to King Hillel.
Last edited by jazing; 04-26-2012 at 01:12 AM.
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04-26-2012, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazing
What is funny is that most of the Christian Ideals are based on Jewish Ideals ...
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Wow...I wonder how that happened. What a coincidence!
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04-26-2012, 01:10 AM
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I think there's a similar issue with sororities, although there are 2 NPC sororities on record as being nonsectarian. I don't know if there are any fraternities who are. But in my case, there is a clearly religious aspect to our ritual that I know for sure some members wouldn't agree with religiously (me for instance, but I wasn't as clear in my agnosticism (?) at 18). I believe the policy for non-Christians is to remain silent during that portion although it was never discussed as far as I know but I don't think the Jewish members of my sorority would be required to recite every bit of our ritual, just as an example.
My suggestion would be to feel out the chapter and not worry about the literal ritual. If they feel a little crispy for you, look elsewhere. Even the fraternities that have a strongly religious background might be a good fit for you based on the actives, the campus, the times, etc. Don't limit your choices based on a 100+ year old ritual. You can take the positive ideals (be a good person, don't be a douche) out of a Christian, Jewish or Hindu prayer without having to vow allegiance to any particular god. But that's just my opinion.
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04-26-2012, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubaiSis
I think there's a similar issue with sororities, although there are 2 NPC sororities on record as being nonsectarian. I don't know if there are any fraternities who are. But in my case, there is a clearly religious aspect to our ritual that I know for sure some members wouldn't agree with religiously (me for instance, but I wasn't as clear in my agnosticism (?) at 18). I believe the policy for non-Christians is to remain silent during that portion although it was never discussed as far as I know but I don't think the Jewish members of my sorority would be required to recite every bit of our ritual, just as an example.
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Same here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubaiSis
My suggestion would be to feel out the chapter and not worry about the literal ritual. If they feel a little crispy for you, look elsewhere. Even the fraternities that have a strongly religious background might be a good fit for you based on the actives, the campus, the times, etc. Don't limit your choices based on a 100+ year old ritual. You can take the positive ideals (be a good person, don't be a douche) out of a Christian, Jewish or Hindu prayer without having to vow allegiance to any particular god. But that's just my opinion.
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But do we really know this for sure?
It's a sticky situation that I don't believe is so easily tossed aside.
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04-26-2012, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Anne
But do we really know this for sure?
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I think she meant in general, which is true. I don't have to be a devout Catholic to understand/appreciate the golden rule.
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04-26-2012, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow
I think she meant in general, which is true. I don't have to be a devout Catholic to understand/appreciate the golden rule.
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Yes, I understand that. My comment was in response to the part of her quote I highlighted in red, about not having to vow allegiance to any particular god. I don't think we can make a generalization about that.
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04-26-2012, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow
I think she meant in general, which is true. I don't have to be a devout Catholic to understand/appreciate the golden rule.
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No, you don't have to be a devout follower of Confuciounism(sp) to appreciate the golden rule..
OP-
You are making this much more of an issue than it really is. At their core, NIC fraternities are social groups, not religious cults. We really dont put as much emphasis on religion as you think we do..really. You may run into an occasional reference to God in certain rituals and creeds but that doesn't mean you're pledging yourself to God because you read or repeat such rituals or creeds anymore than it would if using money with "in God we trust" printed on it would. Make sense? Personally, I'm areligious and I never had an issues with participating in any rituals, neither did my Muslim, Jewish, or Hindu brothers.
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