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03-19-2006, 02:42 PM
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Hazing creates a sense of unity
There have been members here who have expressed their opinions that the hazing in their chapters brought their chapters and their pledge classes together.
It is said that hazing keeps pledge classes together (a higher ratio of pledges become initiates). Is this usually the case? Was this your experience?
It is said that hazing teaches respect. If you were hazed, was this your experience? If not, did you learn respect in some other way?
If you participated in any group that hazed, what benefits did you see? What disadvantages?
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03-19-2006, 02:49 PM
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I was hazed and it did not make me respect the actives or my fellow new members--in fact, a majority of my class resented the way the actives treated us, dividing the entire organization, even after we were initiated.
Maybe it is different for men. I have come to believe that there are ways to accomplish unity and respect without fear or other less positive tactics. Genuine respect is earned--it cannot be created artifically. True unity comes about from mutual respect and learning about one another.
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03-19-2006, 03:02 PM
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I wasn't hazed, but I know of other groups that have hazed both on my campus and on other ones. For the most part, I've seen hazing bring those groups together. However, I've also seen it the other way around. One group that comes to mind has lost a considerable amount of pledges due to hazing.
I guess it all comes down to the personality of the group. One group took it very seriously, and another group, while they did it, didn't care if you didn't want to do whatever.
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I have come to believe that there are ways to accomplish unity and respect without fear or other less positive tactics. Genuine respect is earned--it cannot be created artifically. True unity comes about from mutual respect and learning about one another
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That's absolutely correct. While hazing may be fun (to some), and may bring people togehter, I do think it causes more damage than good.
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03-19-2006, 03:45 PM
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An Excellent Point!
We as a Chapter of LXA recently been rebuilding as some may know from other Posts.
We have and were the first to decide that Hazing was not allowed. This was at A General Assembly that was decided By The Brothers who were Delegates.
As I mentioned above, the Re-Building Of My Chapter and The Recruitment hinged on this fact.
During Recruitment, We accepted some New Associates who were "Pledges" of other GLOs on campus. They left those GLOs for Hazing and came to us.
I have ment many of these Young Men and they are outstanding and I am Proud to say, They Will Become Brothers of LXA Ap. 8th.
Hazing today is Passe' and should be.
If We Associate a Member, then We should feel and treat them as We would want to be treated.
I am sorry, but if anyone feels that way of Hazing, I would never want to be a Member of Your Organization.
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03-19-2006, 04:12 PM
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I'll start off by letting everyone know that my chapter in NO way hazes. I don't know of any sororities that do haze, but I know men that have been hazed (not necessarily at UK) and I speak from what I know about them.
A positive that I see coming out from hazing is that it really separates out those who really want to be there from those who are in it for the wrong reasons. The things that they went through were worth it for the ones that wanted to be in the fraternity, and gave them something to laugh about later on.
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03-19-2006, 05:10 PM
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Do you think that hazing is becoming frowned upon more because it's culturally obsolute or because it's too expensive in terms of insurance, lawsuits, etc. for our respective organizations to allow it to continue?
It doesn't seem like many organizations placed a very high priority on hazing when it was at its zenith 20+ years ago. I don't mean to be cynical, but could it be that the only reason we're even talking about this has nothing to do with the human tragedy, the danger, etc. and everything to do with the financial survival or our respective institutions?
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03-19-2006, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ktsnake
Do you think that hazing is becoming frowned upon more because it's culturally obsolute or because it's too expensive in terms of insurance, lawsuits, etc. for our respective organizations to allow it to continue?
It doesn't seem like many organizations placed a very high priority on hazing when it was at its zenith 20+ years ago. I don't mean to be cynical, but could it be that the only reason we're even talking about this has nothing to do with the human tragedy, the danger, etc. and everything to do with the financial survival or our respective institutions?
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As I Posted above and In answer to Your further Questions, it is a combonation of Both!
Who wants to Be Harrassed/Hazed. and who wants Isurance to go Up?
One Word=Idiots is all I have to say!
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03-19-2006, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Heather17
I was hazed and it did not make me respect the actives or my fellow new members--in fact, a majority of my class resented the way the actives treated us, dividing the entire organization, even after we were initiated.
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As I am from the same local and pledge class as Heather, I just wanted to add that the hazing also did not bring us any closer together as new members or with the actives. In some instances there was almost a hostility towards some of us by the actives about some things - or all of us with regards to the school tradition of other groups kidnapping the various pledge classes. Some of the hazing was still within the school's regulations ('pledging hours' if you will).
Hopefully things on campus have changed in the past 12 years - especially since there is now a college panhellenic.
Sarah
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03-19-2006, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ktsnake
I don't mean to be cynical, but could it be that the only reason we're even talking about this has nothing to do with the human tragedy, the danger, etc. and everything to do with the financial survival or our respective institutions?
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That is cynical and I find it almost disturbing that anyone would argue that we only care about treating other people with dignity because of the liability or financial concerns.
I'm curious--Isn't one instance of someone getting hurt, or humiliated, or killed, enough to take action without regard to legal ramifications? Liability is not my major concern with hazing--making everyone feel welcome in my organization and treating people with dignity is. I would hope others feel the same way.
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03-19-2006, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Heather17
I'm curious--Isn't one instance of someone getting hurt, or humiliated, or killed, enough to take action without regard to legal ramifications? Liability is not my major concern with hazing--making everyone feel welcome in my organization and treating people with dignity is. I would hope others feel the same way.
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Well, I'm sure it would be by today's standards. Do you think we made it through the 60's without killing any pledges?
I doubt it.
We made it through those days, yet anti-hazing policies didn't start really popping up until sometime in the 80's (maybe late 70's).
Anti-hazing laws didn't come about until much later (someone correct me if I'm factually mistaken).
(ETA: I'm in NO WAY promoting hazing, I'm simply trying to spark a decent discussion).
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03-19-2006, 11:09 PM
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I took a young man to the ER after his skull was cracked open on a car doorjamb during his Hell Week in 1985. He had been triple blind folded, driven in a car for hours on end while being forced to do shots every few minutes. When he was told to get out of the car, he was slow and uncoordinated because he was so drunk, so an active brother yanked him out of the car by the rope around his neck (which held a pillow case on) roughly. The next morning, when he woke up, his roommate came and got me because he was bleeding out of his ear. He never regained full hearing. It caused a huge rift in his fraternity because he was treated so badly by some of the brothers. He went through with his initiation (I don't think I would have), but he never ended up feeling comfortable there and pretty much stopped being active after his big brother graduated, about a year after he was initiated. I don't think that situation created any unity.
Same fraternity, the next semester. Instead of blind folding the guys, they made them do shots in a line up and threw food at them if they didn't answer questions correctly. One of them was hit in the eye with a piece of egg shell which pierced his eye. He was permanently blinded in that eye. He chose not to initiate. This incident also caused a huge rift among the brothers. Was this man not dedicated because he didn't want to be part of a fraternity that permanently injured him?
While it is true that people who experience a trauma together often feel united (as I feel especially close to the co-workers who watched 9-11 unfolding with me), that is not the only way to build unity, nor is it the best way.
I could never respect someone who treated me poorly. As an earlier poster said, respect is earned by giving respect, not by intimidating someone into respecting you. That is fear, not respect. It is bullying. It builds resentment and it makes people want to hurt someone else as they have been hurt.
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03-19-2006, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ktsnake
We made it through those days, yet anti-hazing policies didn't start really popping up until sometime in the 80's (maybe late 70's).
Anti-hazing laws didn't come about until much later (someone correct me if I'm factually mistaken).
(ETA: I'm in NO WAY promoting hazing, I'm simply trying to spark a decent discussion).
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Pretty sure you're wrong here since a quick google search showed that Illinois has had anti-hazing laws since 1901. I'm sure other states had laws before the 70's and 80's.
Now--maybe we are more aware of the laws because of risk management training or because of liability. Maybe there is more enforcement. I find that sad, because we should be just as concerned with treating each other like we would want to be treated.
I am sure there will be lots of "decent" discussion tomorrow when people return from the weekend, and this thread will get lots of reponse from people who are going to try to justify hazing.
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03-19-2006, 11:57 PM
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I think it depends on the type of hazing that is taking place. Having pledges drink or eat excessively or throwing food at pledges is flat out dumb. Any type of hazing that can injure someone should not be tolerated. I will say that when I went through basic military training I went through what you guys would consider heavy "hazing". Did it bring us closer as a group? Yes it did. Did it teach us to stick together and help each other? Of course. I hated every minute of it while I was going through but now when I talk to guys that were with me we laugh about the shit we had to do. I truely feel a comraderie with those guys that I feel will last a lifetime. Others might disagree, but this is how I feel.
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03-20-2006, 01:14 AM
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When people say they think hazing creates unity, there not talking about getting the crap beat out of them, or doing disgusting things probably. However, many forms of hazing do build unity, and most people I know were glad they went through it. For example, hell weeks, scavenger hunts, a great deal of work to do in limited time, etc. All these things cause the pledge class to work together in order to achieve a common goal. I don't resent the brothers who made us do it, it created a sense of unity, knowing that we were able to work together to overcome an obstacle.
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03-20-2006, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PiKA2001
I will say that when I went through basic military training I went through what you guys would consider heavy "hazing". Did it bring us closer as a group? Yes it did. Did it teach us to stick together and help each other? Of course.
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Are many people killed during basic training?
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