Do most guys actually receive bids?

[**DU**]

Do most of the guys who rush receive at least one bid from any fraternity? What is the rate of guys who don't receive any bids at all? What are the qualities of guys who don't receive any bids? I know it changes from school to school but still.

[Senusret I]

I just heard this story on yesterday and thought it would be worth repeating.

The cousin of someone I just met graduated from my alma mater, where there are only two NIC orgs. The cousin was a double legacy of one of the fraternities. He really wanted to be part of the organization and studied the chapter's website from beginning to end. He even memorized names and faces.

When the chapter had an open house or something like that, he went up to the members and said "Hi my name is _____. You must be John Smith, Class of 2009."

And so on....and so on.

He wasn't offered a bid. He also didn't pursue membership in any other fraternity.

The cousin of this guy was pretty sure that the members of the chapter were freaked out by this guy and put off by the fact that he researched them on a personal level, but did nothing to actually befriend them before hand.

Moral: Be yourself and don't stalk. I am sure this has led to bidless men in many more places.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by **DU**

Do most of the guys who rush receive at least one bid from any fraternity? What is the rate of guys who don't receive any bids at all? What are the qualities of guys who don't receive any bids? I know it changes from school to school but still.

Very wide in scope of question and very hard to answer.


But as
Senusret I said, it is not always true that a legacy gets in.

I do not know of anyone who tracks the figures that you are looking for in NIC Groups.

As was said, one should be yourself and do not act to over powering. Most Organizations want people who will fit with them and vise versa.

On the flip side, there have been marginal recruits who have become a major player in their organization.

One just never knows.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by **DU**

Do most of the guys who rush receive at least one bid from any fraternity?

It really depends on both the structure of the rush and the campus culture. For example, if the nature of fraternity rush is a series of open parties, then there may be more guys attending rush events that are only there for the free food etc. These guys most likely won't receive a bid.

What is the rate of guys who don't receive any bids at all?

Like Tom said, few (if any?) IFCs keep track of the number of bids extend. Even if the IFC does keep track, statistically it can be hard to use the date in a reliable way. Especially when guys are eligible for more than one bid. For example, there could be three guys. Adam receives two bids, Ben receives one bid, and Carl received zero bids. The total number of bids issued were three. And when you divide the number of bids extended (3) by the number of guys going through rush (3), then statistically, it comes out to 1 bid per man. Yet the reality is that one man did not receive any bids.

If reported, it might end up something like this.

Number of men rushing = 3
Bids extended = 3
Bids accepted = 2

From this, you can not tell if all three men rushing received a bid. Also, the percentage of men receiving at least one bid, and accepting one, is off. The reality with this example is that 100% of the men who received a bid, accepted a bid.

My point is this is why few IFCs keep track. The numbers don't really mean much unless they are very detailed. And bottom line, few IFCs - or campuses - need (require) this type of information.

What are the qualities of guys who don't receive any bids? I know it changes from school to school but still.

The simple answer is that guys that are not worthy (a good fit), do not receive bids.

However, for the sake of discussion, let us rephrase the question to the following. Why would a guy who *is* a good fit, not receive any bids? I would simply answer that he is an unknown to the chapter. And perhaps, the chapter is unknown to him. Why? Maybe he is shy. Maybe he doesn't sign up for formal. Maybe he is from a small town and no one knows him on campus yet. And worse, a chapter may be too lazy to get to know the guy.

So from the chapter's perspective, it can behoove them to get to know as many quality guys as they can. Do some work. And from the rushee's perspective, it behooves him to make himself known - in a positive way. Get out and meet the fraternities.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by TSteven

However, for the sake of discussion, let us rephrase the question to the following. Why would a guy who *is* a good fit, not receive any bids? I would simply answer that he is an unknown to the chapter. And perhaps, the chapter is unknown to him. Why? Maybe he is shy. Maybe he doesn't sign up for formal. Maybe he is from a small town and no one knows him on campus yet. And worse, a chapter may be too lazy to get to know the guy.

So from the chapter's perspective, it can behoove them to get to know as many quality guys as they can. Do some work. And from the rushee's perspective, it behooves him to make himself known - in a positive way. Get out and meet the fraternities.

TSteven -

I totally agree with the 'worse' scenerio. Too many times the attitude of a chapter is "Why aren't these guys coming to see us?", when they should be thinking "We need to get out and find more guys." Many chapters seem to wait for the guys to come to them instead of making an effort to go find the guys.

[shinerbock]

In my fraternity, we looked more people we could be good friends with than "brothers"...I mean, we like guys who are excited about pledgeship and whatnot, but it comes down to if the guy is cool (can he hang out, drink some beer, talk about sports, politics, whatever), would he be a good friend/brother (take care of the house, step up and take responsibility, is he dependable) and other things, like how he presents himself, whether he's good with girls, etc...Basically, we look for people who instantly get along with the brothers, fit right in, etc.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

In my fraternity, we looked more people we could be good friends with than "brothers"...I mean, we like guys who are excited about pledgeship and whatnot, but it comes down to if the guy is cool (can he hang out, drink some beer, talk about sports, politics, whatever), would he be a good friend/brother (take care of the house, step up and take responsibility, is he dependable) and other things, like how he presents himself, whether he's good with girls, etc...Basically, we look for people who instantly get along with the brothers, fit right in, etc.

I think that's how it generally works in most places.

There are also a few chapters that bid just about anyone or anything out there, then try to weed people out during pledgeship.

[RU OX Alum]

To answer the question, at my alma mater when I was there, no. The vast majority went bidless. Like, way more than was acceptable when all the IFC groups had the same complaint that no one was rushing...there were 150 dudes that rushed that semester, less than 30 recieved bids, and every sigle org. issued a formal complait with the IFC office which led to a re-structure of how we did rush. This was in my juinor year, by the time I left it was a bit better, but not much, now they have more requirements for time conflicts, etc, but I still think that, no, you have about a 1 in 3 shot.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

TSteven -

I totally agree with the 'worse' scenerio. Too many times the attitude of a chapter is "Why aren't these guys coming to see us?", when they should be thinking "We need to get out and find more guys." Many chapters seem to wait for the guys to come to them instead of making an effort to go find the guys.

It's easy to assume that because they don't come to a rush party that they would not fit in. Yet many "good fits" are simply not known cause they don't sign up or come to a rush event.

They may be friends of current pledges, members, alumni - even sororities. Incoming freshmen and transfers (upperclassmen) that don't really know much about fraternities and "how to" rush. Athletes who may not be able to rush during formal (be it summer, fall or spring) and may need to be recruited (rushed) informally or during the off season.

Any of these guys may be great fits - i.e. friends, cool, and can hang with his brothers. And be a great assist to the chapter and fraternity as a whole.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

In my fraternity, we looked more people we could be good friends with than "brothers"...I mean, we like guys who are excited about pledgeship and whatnot, but it comes down to if the guy is cool (can he hang out, drink some beer, talk about sports, politics, whatever), would he be a good friend/brother (take care of the house, step up and take responsibility, is he dependable) and other things, like how he presents himself, whether he's good with girls, etc...Basically, we look for people who instantly get along with the brothers, fit right in, etc.

I agree. To me, this kind of sums up what I mean by a good fit.

Originally Posted by TSteven

The simple answer is that guys that are not worthy (a good fit), do not receive bids.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by **DU**

Do most of the guys who rush receive at least one bid from any fraternity? What is the rate of guys who don't receive any bids at all? What are the qualities of guys who don't receive any bids? I know it changes from school to school but still.

It varies from campus to campus, but of the 500 some guys who rushed, 150 didn't get bids at my campus.

[FSUZeta]

in another thread firehouse had proposed a rush schedule that sounded that it might be effective for some chapters desiring to raise their numbers .basically, the chapter would participate in formal recruitment, pledge the desired guys, get them started on their pledgeship and recruit another pledge class, and repeat until they were at the desired number of members.

he was not talking about "warm bodies", he was talking about guys whom one would be proud to call "brother", who would be an asset to the chapter.

i have heard ifc representatives on several different campuses(all in the south) lament,"we need more guys to sign up for recruitment". i never asked them how they go about advertising rush, or how they recruit-i wish that i had, just for curiosity sake. it seems that they have one rush and no matter what the outcome, they are done for the year.

do numbers not matter to fraternity chapters? large numbers in sorority chapters usually mean a strong, popular chapter. if a sorority does not pledge quota, or is under total, they work very hard to meet that goal, even if it means continual recruiting. what gives guys?

[shinerbock]

What campuses? Most of the big southern greek schools do fine. Most kids who don't rush are ones we don't really want. Sure there are some exceptions, but I'm not really sure what you're referring to when you say they need more people to go through rush.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

What campuses? Most of the big southern greek schools do fine. Most kids who don't rush are ones we don't really want. Sure there are some exceptions, but I'm not really sure what you're referring to when you say they need more people to go through rush.

I tend to agree with this.

My guess is that the IFC representative feel a "need" for more guys so that there are more guys available during formal rush. Perhaps they are doing this to help the chapters that don't have the ability (finances, manpower, alumni) to rush year round.

For example, on many campuses, the perceived "top" chapters take as many guys as they want over the summer. They can do this because they have the budget to rush year round and have numerous rush parties over the summer. By the time fall comes, they usually have most of their pledge class in place. As such, the number of men available (without a bid) during fall is lower. Either because the "summer" guys accepted a bid and do not need to sign up, or because they have to sign up but already know where they are going. And while the "top" chapters may have most of their pledge class in place, they do continue to rush. Which can result in an even smaller number of guys available for the rest of the chapters. To be clear, all the guys may be great. Just that certain chapters may get more members than other chapters due to their ability (finances, manpower, alumni) to rush year round. Thus having more guys "available" during formal rush helps all the chapters.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

do numbers not matter to fraternity chapters? large numbers in sorority chapters usually mean a strong, popular chapter. if a sorority does not pledge quota, or is under total, they work very hard to meet that goal, even if it means continual recruiting. what gives guys?

Numbers can matter, but not necessarily the same way they might with NPC chapters.

IFC doesn't have a campus imposed quota or total. As such, largest may not always equal the best. I feel it is more important for a chapter to be competitive "all around". As in being at or near the top in all things important on campus and within the campus Greek Life world. As such, being one of the largest chapters has it's advantages. In additional to numbers (which looks good on campus i.e. "they are the biggest"), you have the manpower to be tops in areas like campus leadership, sports, "social graces" (who throws the "best" parties and gets the "best" girls"), campus events (Greek Week, Homecoming etc.) among other areas. And more often than not, a chapter that is one of the best on campus, usually continues to pledge the best. You also end up with alumni that are damn proud of their chapter and they often give back. All this due to tradition and respect as it were. But it does come back to the members (numbers) that make it happen.

As a disclaimer, you don't have to be one of the largest to be one of the best. But it sure as heck doesn't hurt.